TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:41 am

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
Thanks you for your post. I do know now how the alignment should be done properly, so I'll do that. I didn't have problems with my previous swifts, so I never even searched online how to do it. Non of them were GTis, so I never had to deal with such high speeds as I do now 8)
This car clearly suffered from "small hits" on both corners that show the camber-issues. I can't see any repairs, but the front-right fender and the hatch were totally out of place when I first bought the car. They still are a little off, it's not that noticeable now.
About the strut-tower... I can't see anything wrong with it but I think it's still bent. That why I was asking someone to measure between the shafts of the struts on both front and rear. That would be the best way to know.

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
Here's some help with measuring your frame:

Image

As for the wedge kit, I only have experience with cams (also known as camber bolts because the cam replaces one of the bolts that holds the strut to the knuckle, the other part available from Rock Auto for $9.39 rather than $6
.53). You noted that the wedge kit was good for up to +3 degrees positive camber. Just to be clear, positive camber is bad. Depending on how much negative camber you have on the RF you might want to simply add negative camber to the LF to even things out (if you don't find something amiss with your frame that you can actually do something about). Between 1 and 2 degrees negative camber is good for handling, less if you want the best tire wear possible--negative camber does wear tires, but not nearly so much as incorrect toe. Unfortunately I have found that camber bolts, while offering a smooth range of adjustment in theory are very hard to set anywhere except all the way, as otherwise I've found they tend to loosen up and shift. That's not terrible as they will give you a little less than 2.0 deg max, which is about what you want. If that's what you've got already on the RF, you might just want to add the same on the left and leave the RF alone.

While Aqqus is 100% correct about setting camber and caster first, it's not like you can adjust them without aftermarket parts such as bolts, bushings, shims, etc... none of which have a simple way to make fine adjustments (see the issue with bolts, above) unless you shell out for true camber plates, which are expensive, hard to find, and require additional fabrication to work with your stock struts or you'll have to get coilovers.

I also can't get at my camber bolts to adjust them when the car is on the setup I described in my garage--I guess I need to dig a pit :roll:

So, I have been living with the fact that I have between 1 and 2 tenths of a degree difference in camber between my RF and LF. While this does in theory effect handling on right vs. left hand corners, I race my car and I still can't feel a difference--possibly because caster is also out in a complimentary way, i.e. slightly less on the side with more neg. camber. I don't have a gauge, so I don't really know.

The moral of this story is only that while you do need to work on a level surface and the car does need to be weighted (as you have learned) if the camber and caster are only slightly different, you shouldn't let that stop you from setting the toe correctly, which you can still do yourself easily enough.

_________________
Quote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:16 am
Posts: 412
Location: sidney, nebraska
One thing to remember, alot of little dings can add up to a lot of distortion. Teeth has posted the info you need. If available, I would use the factory specs rather than measurements off another car. Whats its history?
If your strut tower is out of spec, I highly recommend letting a frame shop do the work. While not impossible at home, it can be a real pain. Shops have the right equipment to do the job right and quick.

You never know, it may be far worse than you think. It only takes a couple tweaks int a couple places to thow the whole chassis way out of whack. I hope its only one minor tweak.

_________________
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." - Derek Bok


1990 geo metro 1.0 5 speed 3-door hatchback "herbie"
1990 geo metro 1.0 5 speed convertible "sportie"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
Teeth: I don't want positive camber, I just want to fix the RF, hence my consideration of the wedge. I know that negative camber is good for cornering, but I don't take corners at really high speeds anyway. What I want is the car to handle properly on a straight line past 180km/h; so I need less camber (haven't measured yet, but it's clearly more than 2°). I'm thinking about using something similar to the cams you described, on the rear; but I'll have to fix the height first and check the toe (will probably need an adjustable toe-bar)
About the wheel-alignment: I took the measurements with the wheels on the ground... I had at least 3° toe-out :oops: So I did it properly this time and now I have no toe. Maybe I'll add a little toe-in later, this was just to start. My phone crashed 2 weeks ago so I don't have pics. I didn't use a string or a laser... I used 2 steel square tubes leaned against the wheels (on top of concrete blocks, so I could measure at axle-height). The tie-rods have equal lengths as well now. Than I took it for a test-drive.... the handling was dramatically improved, as the car doesn't seem to steer itself anymore. However it gets really scary when passing through small bumps or when the car is not on gear or braking. It seems like bumpsteer-issues and definitely a lack of stability. So I guess I need stiffer springs all over, but I can't lower the car further more as I'm using 15" rims and our roads are not the flattest :( I'll see what I can find at the junkyard, but not before I sort out the camber-problems.
I have a little play in the rack as well so I guess that's something that could influence the lack of control at high speeds, however it's not what's causing the car to steer itself (it still happens a bit when off gear and not braking)
I also hear the rear-pads sometimes. Those are brand new and so are the rotors, but the wheels don't really rotate freely when the car is on jacks. It's like the caliper-pistons are frozen or the e-brake cable is too tight. I think the pads could be touching the wheels at all times... maybe that could be another factor here? I'll check that tomorrow as well.

About the frame: thanks for the info, I'll check everything ASAP. I have a strut-bar planned as well so I guess it would good to know first if the towers are in the right place.


aqqus: I understand your concern and suggestion of taking the car to the shop, but that's not an option as there's no place I trust to do this kind of work. Besides I don't let anyone work on my car anymore, I like to do things myself. I learn a lot and it saves me money as well.

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Last edited by elbola on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:16 am
Posts: 412
Location: sidney, nebraska
disk break pads always have some contact with the rotors. this is part of the self cleaning feature and helps with the reduction of brake lag. some light drag is normal.

Bumpsteer is caused by improper geometry. when not all items such as control arms and tie rods are traveling in different planes or arcs of travel you will get bumpsteer. i have seen some good graphis to show it but do not have time right now to find them.

_________________
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." - Derek Bok


1990 geo metro 1.0 5 speed 3-door hatchback "herbie"
1990 geo metro 1.0 5 speed convertible "sportie"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
You' ve still got lot's of toe out. If I am visualizing what you did correctly.

The track is not the same front and rear. You just aimed the back tires at the front tires.

_________________
Quote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
aqqus wrote:
disk break pads always have some contact with the rotors. this is part of the self cleaning feature and helps with the reduction of brake lag. some light drag is normal.

Bumpsteer is caused by improper geometry. when not all items such as control arms and tie rods are traveling in different planes or arcs of travel you will get bumpsteer. i have seen some good graphis to show it but do not have time right now to find them.


The contact is too much, as I hardly can rotate the wheel by hand. It's not normal, if compared to the front or the other swifts I've had.

I read an article about bumpsteer, that's why I said I'm getting some on bumpy roads.
"Bumpsteer refers to unwanted changes in toe angles during suspension travel that can cause steering to be darty and indecisive. In a nutshell, this occurs when toe angles change during suspension compression and rebound. This causes the vehicle to “steer itself” due to road conditions"
If I wasn't getting bumpsteer than the self-steering issues of the car would be present on flat roads as well.
I think the RF is causing the problem, cuz the negative camber (without lowering the car) causes the toe-rod to be shorter when doing the alignment and therefor is the travel arc too severe on the right, compared to the left.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


Teeth wrote:
You' ve still got lot's of toe out. If I am visualizing what you did correctly.

The track is not the same front and rear. You just aimed the back tires at the front tires.


I didn't touch the back tires. What I did was make sure the front tires were parallel with each-other. Isn't that what's done with the string-method?

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
So, how do you make your steel rods parallel to the center axis of the car? If you did one side at a time measuring against the hubs, you have a problem. If you measured between them so that they were square to each other, then I'm sorry I jumped to conclusions :oops: .

The key piece of information here is that the track measurement is different front to rear on Swifts, so if you make something parallel to the hubs on one side and measure that way, you will still have toe out because the track is wider in front than it is in back.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
Teeth wrote:
So, how do you make your steel rods parallel to the center axis of the car? If you did one side at a time measuring against the hubs, you have a problem. If you measured between them so that they were square to each other, then I'm sorry I jumped to conclusions :oops: .

The key piece of information here is that the track measurement is different front to rear on Swifts, so if you make something parallel to the hubs on one side and measure that way, you will still have toe out because the track is wider in front than it is in back.


Oh I get what you are saying. Maybe I didn't explain myself properly...
I held the steel bars against the outside of the tires and compared them with each-other, so the bars would show in what direction the tires were pointing. I put the bars on top of concrete blocks so they could be at the center of the wheel (this is what I called axle-height). My brother was monitoring the other side when taking measurements, to avoid me pulling the bar out of place with the steel line tape. I takes some time cuz you have to re-align the bars each time the toe rods are turned in or out, but I think it's more accurate. The longer the bars the better, you just have to make sure they are not bent.

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
:huh:

I get it, but I am not sure how you could pass a tape through your car at axle height--you must have dropped a line to the floor and measured there? At any rate, it sounds like you might have indeed gotten your front wheels parallel to each other, just not necessarily parallel to the axis of the car :roll:

It's a start, but I highly recommend just following the steps in my post to do a true 4-wheel alignment--the bits you need to do it don't cost much and once you have it set up the first time it doesn't take long to do. The toe on the rear wheels has a huge effect on handling and tire wear.

Start by measuring the frame, then take the time to do a proper 4-wheel alignment. I bet you'll find and/or figure out how to fix your problem.

_________________
Quote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
I measured the distance between the bars right next to the bumper and than at the end. You don't have to measure where the axle is, as the bars are showing you the direction of the wheels anyway. The wheels have to be parallel to each-ther AND to the axis of the car? :huh: Maybe we are not on the same page... what do you mean with the axis of the car?

For the rear I'll need adjustable toe-rods in order to adjust the toe right? I was thinking about making my own, I know I saw a thread about that on a Honda-forum; just can't find it anymore. I'll post the link when I do.

I'll start measuring the frame next, but first... here's the state of affairs:

CAMBER:
LF = -0.7° RF = -2.8°

LR = -3.8° RR = -2.7°

Toe at front = 0° toe at rear = 1.3° IN

Ride height (up to the fenders): only as a guide so you can visualize better what's going on.
LF = 59.6cm RF = 60.1cm

LR = 60.7cm RR = 62cm

Apparently adjusting the toe at the front fixed the height-issues, as the left-side was lower before.

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
:idea:

Yeah, I figured out what you were doing when I thought about it for a bit--the bars you are using stick out far enough that you can take both measurements in front of the car to see whether they are parallel. That does work for the front, provided you are on a surface you have measured and know to be level, and the wheels are on something that allows the wheels to turn freely so there is no binding in the steering linkage or suspension. The only problem with not being parallel to the axis of the car with the front wheels is that it's easier to make sure your steering wheel will be centered. To get the back right you'll need to use the strings, though, because they need to be parallel in reference to the car and not just each other or you will "dog track" with the car sitting at an angle when moving straight ahead.

With all the examination you've been doing on the mounts for the rear control arms, I am surprised you didn't notice that the toe bars are held in place by eccentric bolts--you do not need any kind of fancy aftermarket part to adjust the toe in the rear. Unless you drive your car hard enough to have an issue with the snap-oversteer that the stock toe bars cause, you don't need to worry about new toe bars.

Your camber values are very concerning--you should only have about +/- .5 degrees in the back stock, about the same up front. What you've got sounds like what happens when someone tries to put a full water tank, small elephant or some other inappropriate object that weighs as much as the car in the back. The problems are severe enough to be concerned about whether they are repairable--check the frame measurements before you invest anything more into the car.

How are you coming up with your numbers? Do you have a camber gauge or are you doing the trigonometry necessary to convert mms of difference on a 14" rim to degrees....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
I have a Momo-steering wheel so I didn't worry about that, as I could re-center it again after I was done with the alignment. I did make sure that the toe rods had the same length, so the toe-changes would be equal on both sides when driving over bumps.
I didn't notice the eccentric bolts you are talking about :oops: maybe cuz I only loosened the rear-rods from the knuckles... didn't removed them completely. I'll check that out tomorrow.
I'll check the frame and stuff, but if it's just the strut-towers, I'll make some strut-bars for both the front and the rear. The camber on the RF will be fixed with the wedge and in the LR by heating and pressing the tower back to it's place. I can't go crazy about this.
I measured the camber with a water-level and a steel line tape. You can calculate the degrees with basic trigonometry-equations using tangent.

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
Forgot to say. The wheels do turn pretty easy on the ground, you just have to move the car a couple of meters and then back, to make sure there's no binding when doing the final adjustments. It's not a big deal as I didn't have strings around the car. I wanted to get out of that one, but apparently I'll still have to do it for the back. :P

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:16 am
Posts: 412
Location: sidney, nebraska
Be carefull heating the towers before pushing them back in place. too much heat can cause fatigue. the bes method is pull and release. It takes time but creates its own intrenal heat and won't fatigue the metal. Strut braces are a good idea but wait unitl you get the cahssis straight. Like Teeth said, measure the frame/chassis to make sure its not too far gone. Its best to know when to stop on one and start on a new one.

You may find that by getting the chassis staight the bump steer will work itself out. I would chase that last. If you do have a strut tower out of place it can cause a dynamic change in the geometry which the original design cant compensate for.

When you set your toe did you center your steering travel or just the steering wheel? Or did you just make sure the wheels were pionting staight forward?

As far as you brake drag you might want to check to make sure the master cylinder is clean and gumming up with sediment. I have ran in to theat before on motorcycles and older cars. the compensating port in the master cylinder can plug up and not fully release the brakes.

_________________
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." - Derek Bok


1990 geo metro 1.0 5 speed 3-door hatchback "herbie"
1990 geo metro 1.0 5 speed convertible "sportie"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
aqqus wrote:
Be carefull heating the towers before pushing them back in place. too much heat can cause fatigue. the bes method is pull and release. It takes time but creates its own intrenal heat and won't fatigue the metal. Strut braces are a good idea but wait unitl you get the cahssis straight. Like Teeth said, measure the frame/chassis to make sure its not too far gone. Its best to know when to stop on one and start on a new one.

You may find that by getting the chassis staight the bump steer will work itself out. I would chase that last. If you do have a strut tower out of place it can cause a dynamic change in the geometry which the original design cant compensate for.

When you set your toe did you center your steering travel or just the steering wheel? Or did you just make sure the wheels were pionting staight forward?

As far as you brake drag you might want to check to make sure the master cylinder is clean and gumming up with sediment. I have ran in to theat before on motorcycles and older cars. the compensating port in the master cylinder can plug up and not fully release the brakes.

I hope the chassis isn't too bad, cuz I can't afford to start a new project. I'm a student so I don't have the time. I found the picture Teeth posted in the Shop-manual, so I'll start taking measurements asap.


Yes I did center the steering travel, that's what I meant by "making sure the toe rods have the same length"


I think the master cylinder is fine though, cuz the brake-issues were only at the back (it's only on the RR now, as turned out today when I checked them). The thing is that I couldn't find caliper repair kits for the back, so only the front calipers got new seals. I'll spray some WD-40 in the boots to see if that helps. Funny thing is that before I corrected the wheel-alignment at the front, the car was more stable when braking; now I only loose control when braking (and through bumps of course).

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:16 am
Posts: 412
Location: sidney, nebraska
Sometimes they get worse before better. You can get one issue "fixed" only to show another. Now that your getting the alingment straight its starting to show other issues with the stability. That tessl me there are some bigger isssues. Get the measurements done and go from there.

_________________
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." - Derek Bok


1990 geo metro 1.0 5 speed 3-door hatchback "herbie"
1990 geo metro 1.0 5 speed convertible "sportie"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
I've been busy with this :D

I was able to push the rear strut-towers out a bit using some heat (not much) and a hydraulic jack , the holes for the strut-mount on the left-side were slotted as well. Here's how things are now:

LF= 0.7° RF = 2.1°

LR = 1.9° RR = 0.8°

The RF will hopefully get fixed with the camber wedge mentioned before. I'm still thinking about what to do with the LR, as I can't slot those holes any further; but I'm pretty happy with the results so far.
I also added a couple of shims on top of the left strut and welded an extension inside to keep the strut on it's place. Now I can squeeze 4 fingers in both sides (on the rear) and 2 fingers up front. Sorry still waiting for the new phone to arrive, so no pictures.
The brake-caliper on the RR had it's boot full of water and began to rust :huh: It's all good now though, I have nod brake-drag on that side anymore.
A four-wheel alignment was done as well. It was a pain in the back, but it was worth it. Now I have no stability and steering issues anymore. I don't know what, of all the things I did, had the most impact; but it feels like a whole different car. It even accelerates better now, probably due to the better grip and weight-transfer to the front after lifting the back.
I still have to make the strut-bars and finish measuring the frame, but that's for next week (after Carnaval's over 8))

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
I am glad to see that you're getting it all straightened out! :thumbsup:

You might want to add camber to the LF rather than remove it from the RF--2.1 isn't too much.


A 4 wheel alignment does wonders--just make sure to do it again every time to do anything else to the suspension :wink:

I don't know how many times I've had my suspension apart so I've had to do the alignment all again too, but it gets easier each time.

_________________
Quote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
Teeth wrote:
I am glad to see that you're getting it all straightened out! :thumbsup:

You might want to add camber to the LF rather than remove it from the RF--2.1 isn't too much.


A 4 wheel alignment does wonders--just make sure to do it again every time to do anything else to the suspension :wink:

I don't know how many times I've had my suspension apart so I've had to do the alignment all again too, but it gets easier each time.

I'm still a little skeptical about the negative camber though... it's straight-line acceleration what I'm focusing on (will be doing a little bit of drag-racing shortly), as I don't take corners that fast anyway. Reducing camber on the right will be easier as well :P .

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
OK. If you are drag racing I agree you would want less camber. I would make some attempt to increase caster though, for sure, and I'd think about leaving the 0.7 degrees on both sides rather than zero.

_________________
Quote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
Teeth wrote:
OK. If you are drag racing I agree you would want less camber. I would make some attempt to increase caster though, for sure, and I'd think about leaving the 0.7 degrees on both sides rather than zero.

How did you adjust caster on your swift?

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
I used offset D bushings for the front control arms, which you can get from either Whiteline or Superpro.

You can get the Superpro kit here for $22:

http://store.185performance.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=SPF1433K&x=13&y=7

The Whiteline bushings are sold as a kit that includes washers that stack against the control arm attachment point to move it forward. I went with the Superpro set because it was so cheap, but I also put some extra washers I picked up at the junkards to move the control arm as far forward as possible--even if you don't get the offset bushings I bet you could get a significant improvement from adding some washers alone. Here's some pictures of my struggle with bushings--the one you need is not the one I am having so much trouble with, but there is some useful info here and a picture of everything with the washers installed if you scroll a few more posts down.

http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1230&start=50#p401229

_________________
Quote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Posts: 1133
Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
Thanks for the links. I must say I thought the white-line bushings were mostly used to affect camber... I'll look into it before doing anything; as I already have new bushings installed and would prefer not to buy them again. Using washers at the mounting point is a great idea, I'll do that once I measure how the caster is now and how much I want to change it.

_________________
MK2/3 PARTS FOR SALE - EVERYTHING MUST GO!
image_id: 22616
1993 Swift Gti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:44 am 
Offline
Suzuki Elder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
here is the whiteline + camber kit intalled on new control arms.
Image

i also used energy suspension 9.13101R polyurethane tie rod dust boots to replace the ones on the new control arms. they don't degrade as quickly and they let you easily grease the ball joints for longer life.
Image

adding the spacers (washers) to set the camber does move the control arms forward. the oem nuts are pretty wide so i located m14x1.25 a2 stainless half nuts and a thin a2 stainless flat washer that ends up being flush with the end of the threads after i assemble the stack and add the turbine tech 4 point lower brace. basically, the thin flat washer only serves to keep the nut from marring the mounting surface of the brace. i lock the nut with blue thread locker.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group