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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:06 am 
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Location: Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
We finished resurfacing all brake-discs and got got them installed on the GTi yesterday. It was our first time, so I don't know if it's within specs. All I know is that the brake-pedal goes up and down when pressed. The tires don't really rotate freely and it's more difficult at some point of the turn.
At first I thought it was the discs not being properly lined up with the hubs, so I took them all out and carefully cleaned all rust between the two surfaces... that didn't help much. Than I thought about the new caliper piston seal being of an incorrect size and not letting the piston travel freely... that wasn't it either cuz it happens when aplying the e-brake and the rear calipers didn't get new seals. Furthermore I didn't spot any problems in the calipers themselves, the pins travel freely etc etc
So I used this tool, don't know the name of it



image_id: 22460


and the disc surface appears to have a 0.4mm difference while spinning. I think maybe the discs where not properly lined in the lathe, causing one side to not be parallel with the other. But still 0.4mm doesn't seem like much to me, don't know the maximum though.
I can't even see it with the naked eye! It's noticeable only cuz of the disc touching the pads only at a certain section the disc when the brakes are not engaged. So here are my questions:
1-What's the maximum the disc-surfaces can be off from each other?
2-How far can the discs be machined beyond oem specs? (a minimum of 16.5mm is tamped on them and they are right there already)
3-In case I need new discs... do any of the other swifts use similar discs? (I'm having trouble choosing the right ones at Rockauto)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:37 am 
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I'm in a hurry so I decided to order the front discs from Rockauto and try to fix the rears (those are still 1 mm thicker than the minimum). I read somewhere online that the best way to resurface rotors on a lathe is using the hub to avoid parallelism-issues, so I'll try and get one from a junk-yard.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:37 am 
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whoever did the machining didnt set them up right.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:57 pm 
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VR4 wrote:
whoever did the machining didnt set them up right.

It wasn't I know, but I think the rears can still be saved if a hub is used as reference and bolting the discs to that. Just wondering what the margin of "error" could be. It was 0.4mm on the front, but that's still way too much.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:09 pm 
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unless you use an on car lathe theres no way youll be able to put the disc and hub on the lathe. off car the disc is slid onto the lathe and set up true (takes experience) and machined. on car the motor is bolted to the disc/hub assy, set up (most these days are fully automated and do a damn fine job), and the operation is performed.


again...there is no way youll set up an off car lathe with the hub.



on car is the prefered method for composite rotors (what we have. where the rotor just slides on to the hub assy). off car lathes were designed for old school rwd front rotors (hub/rotor assy with servicable taper bearings) but they have been made to work with composite rotors.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:43 pm 
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This is the lathe I'm using... an "off car" right?

image_id: 22448

I think the problem was with the first line-up of one of the sides, than the other side was lined-up using the machined side as a reference. I checked the discs again and both sides are parallel with each-other, but not with the hub. I thought I could put the hub in the lathe (if there's enough clearance) and bolt the rotor to the hub for a perfect line-up of one side, than use that one as the reference for the other side? I'm not machinist, I just happen to have access to a lathe that's all.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:06 pm 
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pretty sure thats your problem. thats not a brake lathe. i highly doubt youll ever get a good cut on that lathe.


Image


to cut a disc you need to cut both sides at once.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:16 pm 
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I know it's ghetto :P but my uncle used to work there and successfully resurfaced the discs of this golf, so I it's doable. Unfortunately I'm not a machinist like he is, so I have to learn from my mistakes until I get it right. I personally disagree that we NEED a "brake"-lathe to do the brakes, otherwise we would need a different one for every thing we do! I think it's all about skill and experience, which come with time. That's more of a tool for NAPA, as all they do is brakes :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:39 pm 
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no you dont NEED a proper brake lathe but it will take significantly less time to set up. what youll need to do with that lathe is chock it up, measure runout on the hub mounting surface, cut, flip, remeasure, cut, and pray.

since you need ot measure runout on the hub of the disc it will need ot be absolutely perfect. just .001 out there could translate to .1 at the outer edge of the rotor.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:28 pm 
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The hubs had 0.1mm when I measured them on the car... discs 0.4mm. But it's so subjective, cuz only a bit of rust or dirt could have caused those readings; hence my question about what the maximum should be. Imagine I buy new rotors and it turns out it was the hubs all the time!
I din't measure in the back cuz it was worse but in the front: 0.1mm at around 62mm(hub) from the centre should be almost 0.2mm at 122mm(rotor) if perfectly machined. Does that sound like "within specs"? If not than my hubs may be damaged, I did hit them a bit to get the lugs out but what are the odds :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:36 am 
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update: got brand new discs in the mail a couple of days ago. The old front ones are useless, but I'll keep playing with rears though; as those still have some meat. I'm not sure, but I think we used the wrong knife when turning the rotors. Maybe that's why they didn't have the same thickness all over. I do like the look of brand new rotors though 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:50 pm 
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why didn't you opt for some other new rotors and attempt a larger brake conversion while you were at it Janko?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:02 pm 
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PBC137 wrote:
why didn't you opt for some other new rotors and attempt a larger brake conversion while you were at it Janko?

I didn't have enough cash for a conversion at the moment, as I'm fixing other stuff at the same time. I'm however still happy with the results. I had a GL and than a GS before, so I'm still pretty impressed with the performance of stock GTi brakes. It would be another story if I had a turbo though :P

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