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 Post subject: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:47 am 
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Was looking at these on ebay. I know for sure that I want to upgrade my rotors to something that can work a little better since my current rotors are warped and shake when I brake hard.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-FRONT-STOPTECH ... 10&vxp=mtr

Just wondering what everyone's opinion is on these and if there are better or less expensive alternatives? I would prefer to stick with stock sized rotors and calipers.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:08 am 
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I have a set of rotors that look like those. I got mine from EngineWhisperer, I don't know where he bought them. I am very happy with mine.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:52 am 
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drilled rotors dont make you stop better.


make sure on that listing. if they fit a 98 they WONT fit a 92. theyre listing every year of swift/metro.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:29 pm 
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the thought behind drilled rotors is that the holes work to draw gas off that is emitted by the pads as they heat up and also to provide a space to move water off the rotor in wet weather operation.

the thought behind slotted rotors is to provide a surface, like a cheese grater, to skim heat hardened friction material off the pucks to expose new friction material during braking.

my experience with slotted rotors has been that they really accelerate pad wear. my experience with drilled rotors has been that they "sing" (resonate) under braking. also, on the drilled rotors you have to carefully inspect them regularly as the holes have a tendency to start cracks. normally, drilled rotors have their holes chamfered to minimize cracking.

i have a set of drilled and slotted ventilated rotors for the mk2 turbo3/ mk2/3 vert/ 95+ brake systems that i bought in a group buy. i used them on my blue vert for one summer before i swapped to gt brakes. i also have a pair of new (not rebuilt) calipers with yokes to go with them that i have not yet gotten around to posting in my sale thread. i painted the calipers bright silver and coated the rotor hubs and vents with rust encapsulator in matte black (bullet black) to keep them from getting rust ugly. these parts are bolt on ready to go.
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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:40 pm 
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My plan was to purchase some stronger pads like green stuff or something similar so wear was minimized and braking was maximized. That plus I want something that looks half ass decent when I get rims which should be fairly soon.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:17 am 
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i bought mine from ebay. with ceramic pads before switching to gti suspension.
drilled and slotted rotors evacuate the gasses that are prodused from the pad. In return the surface area the pad uses is incressed during hard or long breaking. use drilled and slotted rotors with ceramic pads and ss brake lines is the best combination for stopping a bullet. I know for a fact that an 1979 chevy short bed stops in less distance with this combo over factory rotors and pads from 45mph. tested in front of my work after the initial break in period for the pads.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Quote:
Not exactly a product review, but, I thought this was a nice read that might come in handy when deciding on certain products.

Cliffnotes: Slotted/drilled = for looks except for a few rare cases which shouldn't apply if you're on this forum.

QUOTE(Taken from a sticky at Celicatech)
===========
First, lets get some physics. Tell me how a heatsink with less mass will cool better? You do realize that a brake rotor acts as a large heatsink to transfer heat from the brake pads to the rotor. The heat generated from pads has to go somewhere and so it transfers to the rotor and caliper.

Porsche claims: "Discs are cross-drilled to enhance braking in the wet. The brakes respond faster because the water vapour pressure that builds up during braking can be released more easily."

They have said nothing about enhancing normal braking circumstances and the larger diameter rotors probably make up for the lack of material present in a smaller cross drilled rotor.

From Wilwood's website:
QUOTE
Q: Why are some rotors drilled or slotted?
A: Rotors are drilled to reduce rotating weight, an issue near and dear to racers searching for ways to minimize unsprung weight. Drilling diminishes a rotor's durability and cooling capacity.

Slots or grooves in rotor faces are partly a carryover from the days of asbestos pads. Asbestos and other organic pads were prone to "glazing" and the slots tended to help "scrape or de-glaze" them. Drilling and slotting rotors has become popular in street applications for their pure aesthetic value. Wilwood has a large selection of drilled and slotted rotors for a wide range of applications.

As for the porsche rotors, a few notes from a forum I frequent:
QUOTE

1) The holes are cast in giving a dense boundary layer-type crystalline grain structure around the hole at the microscopic level as opposed to drilling which cuts holes in the existing grain pattern leaving open endgrains, etc, just begging for cracks.

2) The holes are only 1/2 the diameter of the holes in most drilled rotors. This reduces the stress concentration factor due to hole interaction which is a function (not linear) of hole diameters and the distance between them.

3) Since the holes are only 1/2 as big they remove only 1/4 as much surface area and mass from the rotor faces as a larger hole. This does a couple of things:

It increases effective pad area compared with larger holes. The larger the pad area the cooler they will run, all else being equal. If the same amount of heat is generated over a larger surface area it will result in a lower temperature for both surfaces.

It increases the mass the rotor has to absorb heat with. If the same amount of heat is put into a rotor with a larger mass, it will result in a lower temperature.

3) The holes are placed along the vanes, actually cutting into them giving the vane a "half moon" cut along its width. You can see that here:

This does a couple of things:

First, it greatly increases the surface area of the vanes which allows the entire rotors to run cooler which helps prevent cracks by itself.

Second, it effectively stops cracking on that side of the hole which makes it very difficult to get "hole to hole" cracks that go all the way through the face rotor (you'll get tiny surface "spider cracks" on any rotor, blank included if you look hard enough).

That's why Porsche rotors are the only "crossdrilled" rotors I would ever consider putting on my car.

BTW, many of the above features are not present in older Porsche brakes. The above is for "Big Reds" and newer.

This is quite different from the standard drilled rotors you get from brembo/kvr/powerslot/"insert random ricer parts brand name here" brake rotors.

Further proof of the uselessness of cross drilled rotors are found here:

Those Poor Rotors

QUOTE
Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the 40’s and 50’s, not a whole lot. Rotors were first ‘drilled’ because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures – a process known as ‘gassing out’. These gasses then formed a thin layer between the brake pad face and the rotor, acting as a lubricant and effectively lowering the coefficient of friction. The holes were implemented to give the gasses ‘somewhere to go’. It was an effective solution, but today’s friction materials do not exhibit the same gassing out phenomenon as the early pads.

For this reason, the holes have carried over more as a design feature than a performance feature. Contrary to popular belief they don’t lower temperatures (in fact, by removing weight from the rotor, the temperatures can actually increase a little), they create stress risers allowing the rotor to crack sooner, and make a mess of brake pads – sort of like a cheese grater rubbing against them at every stop. (Want more evidence? Look at NASCAR or F1. You would think that if drilling holes in the rotor was the hot ticket, these teams would be doing it.)

The one glaring exception here is in the rare situation where the rotors are so oversized (look at any performance motorcycle or lighter formula car) that the rotors are drilled like Swiss cheese. While the issues of stress risers and brake pad wear are still present, drilling is used to reduce the mass of the parts in spite of these concerns. Remember – nothing comes for free. If these teams switched to non-drilled rotors, they would see lower operating temperatures and longer brake pad life – at the expense of higher weight. It’s all about trade-offs.


From Stoptech:

QUOTE
Which is better, slotted or drilled rotors?

StopTech provides rotors slotted, drilled or plain. For most performance applications slotted is the preferred choice. Slotting helps wipe away debris from between the pad and rotor as well as increasing the "bite" characteristics of the pad. A drilled rotor provides the same type of benefit, but is more susceptible to cracking under severe usage. Many customers prefer the look of a drilled rotor and for street and occasional light duty track use they will work fine. For more severe applications, we recommend slotted rotors.

That almost sounds like an excuse to use cross drilled rotors, and for your street car which probably is never driven on the track, the drilled rotors are fine, but as Stoptech states, they will crack and are not good for severe applications.

From Baer:

QUOTE
"What are the benefits to Crossdrilling, Slotting, and Zinc-Washing my rotors?

In years past, crossdrilling and/or Slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads...However, with today’s race pad technology, ‘outgassing’ is no longer much of a concern...Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer’s offerings."

Then from Grassroots Motorsports:
QUOTE
"Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the '40s and 50s, not a whole lot. Rotors were first drilled because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures, a process known as "gassing out." ...It was an effective solution, but today's friction materials do not exhibit the some gassing out phenomenon as the early pads. Contrary to popular belief, they don't lower temperatures. (In fact, by removing weight from the rotor, they can actually cause temperatures to increase a little.) These holes create stress risers that allow the rotor to crack sooner, and make a mess of brake pads--sort of like a cheese grater rubbing against them at every stop. Want more evidence? Look at NASCAR or F1. You would think that if drilling holes in the rotor was the hot ticket, these teams would be doing it...Slotting rotors, on the other hand, might be a consideration if your sanctioning body allows for it. Cutting thin slots across the face of the rotor can actually help to clean the face of the brake pads over time, helping to reduce the glazing often found during high-speed use which can lower the coefficient of friction. While there may still be a small concern over creating stress risers in the face of the rotor, if the slots are shallow and cut properly, the trade-off appears to be worth the risk. (Have you looked at a NASCAR rotor lately?)



QUOTE
Here is how it works. The friction between the pad and rotor is what causes you to stop. This friction converts your forward energy into heat (remember Einstein: Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it is converted). Now that heat is a bad thing. Yes it is bad for the rotors but it is a lot worse for the pads. A warped rotor will still stop the car - it will just feel like shit. Overheated pads however WILL NOT stop the car. It is here where the rotors secondary responsibility comes in. Its job now is to DISSIPATE the heat away from the pads and DISPERSE it through itself. Notice that DISSIPATE and DISPERSE are interchangeable? Once the heat is removed from the pad/surface area it is then removed. Notice where the removal falls on the list of duties? That's right - number 3. Here is the list again. Memorize it because I will be using it a lot in this post:

#1 Maintains a coefficient of friction with the pad to slow the forward inertia of the vehicle

#2 DISSIPATE the heat

#3 REMOVE the heat from the brake system

Let's look more in-depth at each step now shall we? No? Too bad assclown we are doing it anyway.

#1 Maintains a coefficient of friction with the pad to slow the forward inertia of the vehicle:
This one is pretty simple and self-explanatory. The rotor's surface is where the pads contact and generate friction to slow the vehicle down. Since it is this friction that causes the conversion of forward acceleration into deceleration (negative acceleration if you want) you ideally want as much as possible right? The more friction you have the better your stopping will be. This is reason #1 why BIGGER brakes are the best way to improve a vehicle's stopping ability. More surface area on the pad and the rotor = more friction = better stopping. Does that make sense Ace? Good. Let's move on.

#2 DISSIPATE The Heat:
Let's assume for a second that the vehicle in question is running with Hawk Blue pads on it. The brand doesn't really matter but that is what I am using as my example. They have an operating range of 400 degrees to 1100 degrees. Once they exceed that 1100 degree mark they fade from overheating. The pad material gets too soft to work effectively - glazing occurs. This means that a layer of crude glass forms on the surface of the pad. As we all know glass is very smooth and very hard. It doesn't have a very high coefficient of friction. This is bad - especially when I am coming down the back straight at VIR at 125MPH. Lucky for us the rotor has a job to do here as well. The rotor, by way of thermal tranfer DISSIPATES the heat throughout itself. This DISSIPATION lessens the amount of heat at the contact area because it is diluted throughout the whole rotor. The bigger the rotor the better here as well. The more metal it has the more metal the heat can be diluted into. Make sense? This isn't rocket science here d00d.

#3 REMOVE the heat from the brake system:
Now comes your favorite part of the process. This is what you thought DISSIPATION was. It is ok. I will allow you to be wrong. This is the step where the rotor takes the heat it DISSIPATED from the pads and gets rid of it for good. How does it do this? By radiating it to the surface - either the faces or inside the veins. It is here where cool air interacts with the hot metal to cool it off and remove the heat. Once again there is a reoccuring theme of "the bigger the better" here. The bigger the rotor, the more surface area it will have which means more contact with the cooling air surrounding it. Got it? Good.

Now let's look at why cross-drilling is a bad idea.

First - as we have already established, cross-drilling was never done to aid in cooling. Its purpose was to remove the worn away pad material so that the surfaces remained clean. As we all know this doesn't have much of a purpose nowadays.

Next - In terms of cooling: Yes - x-drilling does create more areas for air to go through but remember - this is step 3 on the list of tasks. Let's look at how this affects steps 1 and 2. The drilling of the rotor removes material from the unit. This removal means less surface area for generating surface friction as well as less material to accept the DISSIPATED heat that was generated by the friction. Now because of this I want to optimize step one and 2 since those are the immediate needs. If it takes longer for the rotor to get rid of the heat it is ok. You will have a straight at some point where you can rest the brakes and let your cooling ducts do their job. My PRIMARY concern is making sure that my car slows down at the end of the straight. This means that the rotor needs to have as much surface as possible to generate as much friction as possible and it needs to DISSIPATE the resulting heat AWAY from the pads as quick as possible so they continue to work. In both cases x-drilling does nothing to help the cause.

Now let's talk about strength - and how x-drilled rotors lack it. This one is simple. Explain again just how drilling away material/structure from a CAST product DOES NOT weaken it? Since you are obviously a man of great knowledge and experience surely you have seen what can happen to a x-drilled rotor on track right? Yes it can happen to a non-drilled rotor as well but the odds are in your favor when pimpin' bling-bling drilled y0! Since you are also an expert on thermodynamics why not explain to the group what happens to a cast iron molecule when it is overheated. I will give you a little hint - the covalence bonds weaken. These bonds are what hold the molecules together boys and girls. You do the math - it adds up to fractures.

So why don't race teams use them if they are so much better? Consistency? Hmmmm . . . no. I am gonna go with the real reason her chodeboy. It is because of several factors actually. They are as follows but in no particular order:

- Less usable surface area for generating friction
- Less material to DISSIPATE the heat away from the pads
- Less reliable and they are a safety risk because of fatigue and stress resulting from the reduced material

And what are the benefits? Removal of particulate matter and enhanced heat removal. I gotta tell ya - it is a tough choice but I think I am going to stick with the safe, reliable, effective-for-my-stopping needs solution



copied from elsewhere but i did read the grassroots article back in 09. heres the excerpt from it if you didnt read everything...

Quote:
Then from Grassroots Motorsports:
QUOTE
"Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the '40s and 50s, not a whole lot. Rotors were first drilled because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures, a process known as "gassing out." ...It was an effective solution, but today's friction materials do not exhibit the some gassing out phenomenon as the early pads. Contrary to popular belief, they don't lower temperatures. (In fact, by removing weight from the rotor, they can actually cause temperatures to increase a little.) These holes create stress risers that allow the rotor to crack sooner, and make a mess of brake pads--sort of like a cheese grater rubbing against them at every stop. Want more evidence? Look at NASCAR or F1. You would think that if drilling holes in the rotor was the hot ticket, these teams would be doing it...Slotting rotors, on the other hand, might be a consideration if your sanctioning body allows for it. Cutting thin slots across the face of the rotor can actually help to clean the face of the brake pads over time, helping to reduce the glazing often found during high-speed use which can lower the coefficient of friction. While there may still be a small concern over creating stress risers in the face of the rotor, if the slots are shallow and cut properly, the trade-off appears to be worth the risk. (Have you looked at a NASCAR rotor lately?)

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Oh boy, the old cross-drilled and slotted debate :roll:

I thought about getting cross-drilled and/or slotted rotors for my swift and began reading up on the relative merits of doing so. And reading. And reading....

Of course, in all threads or articles, somebody has to point out that NASCAR rotors are neither drilled nor slotted and then somebody else points out that some current models of Ferrari and Porsche definitely do have drilled and slotted rotors.

Did you get your quotes from this thread on the STI forum?

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-braking/67007-real-deal-about-cross-drilled-slotted-rotors.html

Gotta keep going to page 5 and the SAE article that has some interesting test results.

I think a lot really depends on the application, and the only way to know is to measure stopping distances and fade between a drilled and/or slotted rotor and a solid one. The conventional wisdom is certainly that if there were any increase in performance at all, it would be comparatively small and it appears that most cross drilled and/or slotted rotors are sold intending to satisfy those who would purchase them for appearance rather than function.

I went with plain Brembo blanks, SS lines, CRX si calipers and greenstuff pads. My car stops very, very, well but who knows how much better or worse it would stop with drilled and/or slotted rotors?

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:47 pm 
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i got it from another forum (cant remember now. i was looking for the grassroots article on google.)

i can say i went from drilled rotors and stillen pads to solid rotors and porterfield R4S pads on another one of my cars and the stopping power and fade resistance increased dramatically.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:41 am 
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Alright lots of valid points. I guess I should now ask: what brand can I buy that will not warp like the ones I currently possess? I want something that resists warping and looks half ass decent in the process.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:10 am 
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my experience with the brakes on our cars has been that the base model cars with solid rotors and hub over design warp rotors upon the first emergency braking event. the ventilated rotors and rotor over design are so much better that i have routinely upgraded base model cars to those systems.

the gt brakes are the best of the heap and i have never warped the front rotors using gt brakes. the last 2 gt conversions i have done got straight up replacement rotors, not drilled, not slotted, and they work great.

second to emergency braking maneuvers the worst condition for warping ventilated rotors is when the calipers have bound up or the rubber brake hoses swelled up enough to trap pressure in the calipers making the brakes drag. i'm keen on replacing those hoses along with any brake job that i do on a car that i haven't replaced the hoses within my memory.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:33 am 
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Heh. I knew it. :roll:

The next topic of intense nerdy car-forum discussion. =) Apparently brake rotors almost never warp, and when they do it doesn't necessarily cause a pulsation in the brakes because the calipers "float" on the rotors. What causes the pulsation is actually a variation in thickness or runout caused by overheated pads transferring material to the rotors (sometimes you can actually see the imprint of the pad on the rotor). But technicians still call this condition "warped" because they either don't know any better or because runout is harder to explain to customers.

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

This too is all over the forums with many entrenched opinions, but the effect is basically the same. You get a pulsation, turn your rotors, and soon enough the pulsation is back.

What I think is interesting is that I've read several posts by authors who believe that cross-drilling eliminated their "warping" problems. Most notably I followed a long thread somewhere (not going to dig for it again at this point) about drilling your own rotors and what a bad idea that would be. I am as interested in improving the performance of my car as I am in doing it myself for low cost, so I actually contemplated this before being convinced by excessive forum research that it was indeed a terrible idea :oops: In that thread, however, there was a guy who owned a good CNC mill and was therefore able to drill his own rotors 'properly' relatively easily and claimed that he had a minivan that warped rotors every single time he descended a particular hill on his way back from work until he drilled them, then no more "warping".

Who knows whether he improved his stopping distances, but at least that's something. I think this might make some sense in context with the increased ability to "remove" heat with increased surface area described above. Remove and dissipate are too close in meaning in the above discussion im my opinion--perhaps the word dissipate should be replaced with the word absorb. There is indeed a difference in the ability to act as a heat sink vs. the ability to shed that heat quickly. Drilling increases the latter at the expense of the former, so if there are conditions where that is helpful, then there are potential advantages. I also notice that the SAE article that shows some advantages for drilling is limited to solid rotors rather than vented and that's another interesting data point. Anyway, if you stick with the stock brakes maybe there is some chance that the drilled rotors might prevent warping, though releasing the brakes as soon as you come to a complete stop is also helpful.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:26 am 
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Quote:
though releasing the brakes as soon as you come to a complete stop is also helpful.



most importantly...


and if you can keep some space infront of you so you can slowly creep up with the brakes released to prevent the pads from keeping too much heat in that portion of the rotor.


FWIW as soon as i can find a steel sleve for my poly bushings (18mm od 16mm id if anyone can help) im putting the gti front brakes and porterfield R4s pads on (with solid rotors)

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:03 pm 
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I would consider the GT brake conversion if i could still use my 13" tires that I bought and used less than 3000km on. Again, lots of great info here. I guess I should change my pads and upgrade to SST lines before changing my rotors? What brand of SST brake lines would be best to purchase? I've heard of generic eBay lines breaking quickly.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:27 pm 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
my experience with the brakes on our cars has been that the base model cars with solid rotors and hub over design warp rotors upon the first emergency braking event. the ventilated rotors and rotor over design are so much better that i have routinely upgraded base model cars to those systems.

the gt brakes are the best of the heap and i have never warped the front rotors using gt brakes. the last 2 gt conversions i have done got straight up replacement rotors, not drilled, not slotted, and they work great.


Whether we use the term 'runout' or 'warping', the effect is the same.
The brake pedal 'pulses' and we are not happy.

As is quoted above, on the base model cars ('85-'94) with the SOLID rotors, you will easily mess up your braking with one EMERGENCY brake on a hot desert day.
In the same year models with VENTILATED rotors, not so much but it happens.

Your climate may have a lot to do with it.

In the desert, braking down a long grade and then suddenly smashing the brake pedal or holding the brake pedal tight until the rotor completely stops? Good luck with that!
Summer in the desert? The deterioration can be instantaneous, as in "I just put a new set of rotors on and they already warped!"

Just like braking in ice and snow versus dry conditions, braking techniques can affect rotor life.
The stock brake set up is designed for most average conditions. If you are warping (feeling some pulsing when braking) rotors, then it may be due to your driving style.

Regarding what teeth said, you can take a 'warped' rotor, drive it on a hot (135F+ outside) Summer desert day down a long grade, heat it up by braking steadily, and then 'smooth' it out by hammering that brake pedal and feathering it out towards the end of your stop. Sometimes you get lucky and no more brake shudder/pulsing, sometimes not. So maybe there's some merit to what he says.

Should the Moderators move this thread to the armchair mechanic forum?
:lol:

(Unless mightbegiant wants to inform the readership that there are TWO diameter rotors that he could possibly use...or post some pictures of his application)

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Sorry didn't realize the model Swift I mentioned actually had both variants of rotor on it. I have the vented rotors that can be used with 13" rims.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:33 pm 
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What are their diameter?

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:11 pm 
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They are the stock vented rotor that I had on my MK2 Turbo Sprint and transferred to my Swift. They are 250mm diameter from what I read.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:45 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, WA
Quote:
I would consider the GT brake conversion if i could still use my 13" tires that I bought and used less than 3000km on. Again, lots of great info here. I guess I should change my pads and upgrade to SST lines before changing my rotors? What brand of SST brake lines would be best to purchase? I've heard of generic eBay lines breaking quickly.



find a set of hyundai accent wheels and you can get away with using the tires you just bought.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:59 pm 
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The 13" Hyundai rims would fit GT brakes?

I know this is derailing a little bit, but i've pretty much decided on 13x5.5 Konig Incident rims.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Phil N Ed wrote:
Should the Moderators move this thread to the armchair mechanic forum?
:lol:




nah it can stay right here....


Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:37 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Make him an offer
Image
he can't refuse???

might be giant, big daddy wants us to play it straight, so let me run some numbers by you.
A GA can take a 231 mm rotor with a 17 mm thickness a 64 mm inner diameter and a 50 mm height.
Those are the Valeo 186505 and Delphi BG2645 but you'd better check it to be sure.
Also check Valuecraft 31015B and Centric 121.48001 vs. 121.48002.
Check Wagner BD 125146.
Hardware kits - check Centric 11740002; other part numbers to check:
66628
WK 1525
66625
Caliper rebuild kits -
14391015
143.40002
KC54002
WK 2042
0717289
D352048
66569 (rear)
18H197
and
CK15050.
Your front pin boot kit - H18045?
Rubbers - HW 16000/ 18K1372

You mention you read about a 250 mm rotor, but I think that is for the GT.
If you want some rotor part numbers, here ya go
0802365
BD 125146
96186R
18A414
186627
0832365
31077
56148
125146
AX31077
...straight out of my old playbook.
I had to really turn back the pages to find those numbers, too.
So I guess the brakes have been working flawlessly for a long long time.

That ought to give you hours of comparison shopping fun.
Bottom line?
You are going to have to get out there and MEASURE that rotor.
There are two diameters and you need to find out which one your front end is using.

Don't forget the brake hardware and if you need axle nut part numbers, feel free to ask.
A good synthetic lube should be applied to moving parts, but you know all that.

Our GA is an MK3, but still has the vented rotors and 13 inch wheels.
Image

and you can read all about it here:
http://s145.photobucket.com/albums/r211 ... d%20Swift/
because we don't have ANY secrets...
:alien:
...but we have AWESOME brakes.
:king:

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:36 pm 
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i had one set of after market 13" aluminum wheels that cleared gt calipers and rotors (actually, it's the beefier calipers that interfere with the rims.)

stock 13" steelies won't fit the gt brake equipped cars.

the knuckles and hubs in your picture will accept the gt calipers and rotors if you turn down the od of the rotors by 5 or 6 mm. the gt calipers sit a little closer to the axle center but the yoke mounting bolt spacing is the same. i have done both my red and blue verts with the gt brake upgrade using their oem vert knuckles and hubs that accept the g10 axles.
Image

gt brake caliper on the left, vert/ turbo3/ swift ga caliper on the right.
Image

caliper to 14" rim clearance.
Image

that method would allow you to run the gt brakes with the g10 or g13 sohc axles. the g13 sohc axles would work with a twincam engine without using the gt knuckles/ hubs/ axles.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:17 am 
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Well, i'll be buying rims tomorrow so I will let everyone know what I decided on when everything is in order. I will do plenty of homework too.

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 Post subject: Re: MK2 Swift GA Rotors?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:47 am 
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If the bolt spacing is actually the same as the GT calipers, I wonder if CRX calipers would fit the GA too. I have had good luck so far with the swapped calipers and cheap 13" Konig Incident wheels on my GT.

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