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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:54 pm 
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So this happened on my way home today...

Image

Now that I had to have it towed to the repair shop they want me to get the parts for it. So where is the best place to buy them and is there anything else I should replace or check since they have to take it all apart anyways?

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89 Suzuki Swift GTI
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Boxed Rear Control Arms
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Last edited by macuserman on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:16 pm 
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RockAuto is good for parts.. You should find out from them if the bushings is included or not.. If not buy it as well since the old one is likely not coming off.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:07 pm 
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Better yet, take the opportunity to replace both arms so your front bushings are both new, and replace both of those rear D bushing with offset PU caster bushings such as superpro SPF1433K (don't know the whiteline part no., but they are equivalent).

Also, find some extra washers and shim your control arms as far forward as you can get.

Your handling will thank me...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:37 am 
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Teeth wrote:
Better yet, take the opportunity to replace both arms so your front bushings are both new, and replace both of those rear D bushing with offset PU caster bushings such as superpro SPF1433K (don't know the whiteline part no., but they are equivalent).

Also, find some extra washers and shim your control arms as far forward as you can get.

Your handling will thank me...



So the best thing to do is get new control arms? I have been debating. I can get used one's for free but I don't know that there is really an advantage to doing that. I think I actually might have some of those bushings already. I don't know how to check the part number though. These were in the extra parts that were given to me when I bought the car.

Image

I'm not sure why but I don't think they are the same either one says 1432 on it and one says 679 on it. Supossedly the previous owner put super pro bushings throughout the suspension, but I was never able to confirm it.

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89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:00 pm 
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OK, except you need two that look like the one on the left--I believe 1432 is the part no. for a kit that has one offset and one regular bushing (as in your picture) that you would need to repair crash damage.

If you don't have accident damage, then you need both bushings to be offset so you get additional caster for both wheels, which is the 1433 part no.

If you've also already got poly bushings in the front bits of the control arm too, including the snapped one, then you should try to remove the bushing from the broken arm--if you can save it, then just get one of those free control arms you can get and put the poly bushing in that.

If you don't have poly bushings at the front pivots, then you'd probably want to get two new arms so that you don't have one old rubber bushing and one new rubber bushing.

Though I did all the bushings on my car, if I had to do it again I would have save myself the trouble of replacing the little round ones (major pain) and just add the D-shaped caster bushings (much easier to remove the OEM, very easy to install poly).

Even if you don't get a new one for the other side, or even if you end up with OEM D bushings when you take the broken one off, I'd recommend adding some washers to move your control arms forward for even more caster like you can see here:

http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1230&start=75#p407187

(third picture down)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Also, you might try figuring out how to contact this guy to see if he has another one of those D bushings left so yours match:

http://blog.185performance.com/archives/21-A-Pile-of-Parts-for-Sale-SuperPro,-Whiteline.html#extended

I gather his online store went out of business, but I got a pair from him for $22, which is a good deal, and you might be able to talk him out of just one... The post is a year old, but you never know.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:02 pm 
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Did I miss something ? In the pic I see REAR lower control arm . I don't think changing caster on that end of the car would do anything.

Doing the front end is good idea but I think he needs to find out why his rear control arm broke . I'd say that is highly unusual . First time I've seen that happened to anyone.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:10 pm 
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DTM GTi wrote:
Did I miss something ? In the pic I see REAR lower control arm . I don't think changing caster on that end of the car would do anything.

Doing the front end is good idea but I think he needs to find out why his rear control arm broke . I'd say that is highly unusual . First time I've seen that happened to anyone.



Yes! I just caught this I didn't realize I never said it was the rear control arm. I was looking at the bushings and that didn't look right to me, I just got done looking up the part numbers and realized Teeth was talking about the front. Just to clarify it is the left rear control arm that has broken. My bad everyone. Yeah I have no idea why it broke other than I guess was rusty. I was only going maybe 10-15mph when it broke nothing strenuous so it must have been weakened over time or something.

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89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Oh duh. :oops:

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Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:31 pm 
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here's the whiteline listing for control arm bushings.
http://www.whiteline.com.au/do_segue4.p ... 989-5%2F00

the rear control arms are around $100 each. on the rear, the block style bushing at the front end and the press in bushing at the rear are easy to do. there's a third bushing that's press fitted into the ear on the knuckle itself and that one requires a big hydraulic press to remove the old bushing and to press in the new bushing.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:01 pm 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
here's the whiteline listing for control arm bushings.
http://www.whiteline.com.au/do_segue4.p ... 989-5%2F00

the rear control arms are around $100 each. on the rear, the block style bushing at the front end and the press in bushing at the rear are easy to do. there's a third bushing that's press fitted into the ear on the knuckle itself and that one requires a big hydraulic press to remove the old bushing and to press in the new bushing.


Thanks Richard! I ended up going with this Dorman part from amazon... http://amzn.com/B000TYODC8 65 dollars and if you have amazon prime free two day shipping. Turns out my old arm already had poly bushings in it so I didn't have to buy any new ones either.


Car is back now and all fixed. However, I had to do an alignment after it got all put back together and it turns out I need new tie rod ends now. It's always something. Thanks for all your help guys!

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89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Deja Vu!!!! I can't believe this happened to me again. On the brand new control arm no less. :(

Image
Image
Original arm snap on the right, new arm snap on the left:
Image


Well now to figure out how to do the repair myself since it is the 4th and all that. I've got the wheel off and the broken piece removed so far so we'll see who it goes.

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89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:20 pm 
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I was able to get it swapped out by myself, however the alignment is off badly enough that it don't really want to drive it that way. Any tips on how to adjust the alignment so that is somewhat close?

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Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:55 am 
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Fishing line (or other string).

It's a little harder on a Swift because the front track is wider than the back, so you can't just run a string parallel to the hubs and work off that. Get two "sticks" or something that is wider than the car that are the same length and run strings off of them such that the distance from each wheel hub is the same front and rear. I also recommend getting 8 pieces of floor tile so you can make 4 "floating' pads to put the wheels on (grease in between them). Of course it's better if your garage floor is also level...

Put the car up on the pads, (you can get elaborate if you want to level them up with additional floor tiles) run the strings so they are square (distance between each string is the same and distance between rear hubs is the same, distance from string to rear hubs is the same on both sides, distance from string to front hubs is the same on both sides) and the string runs past the center of the wheel as close as you cant get it. Measure from the string to the rim on each side of the wheel and adjust until they are the same (0 toe).

FYI, rear toe is a great way to adjust the handling on your car--if you are getting too much understeer, toe out the rear tires and you are on your way to drift-land, though the rear tires will tend to flat spot. Likewise, if your Swift seems too eager to swap ends, a little rear toe in will stabilize things.

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Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:41 am 
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Ok, I'll see if I can give that a try. I shouldn't have to fiddle with but the one wheel right?


Also anyone have any ideas on why I have now broken two of these in the same place? I don't think I'm excessively hard on the suspension. But this has got to stop, either that or I need to make friends with a tow truck driver. :(

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15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:00 am 
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i have never seen that before. :shock:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:28 am 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
i have never seen that before. :shock:



Yikes well if you've never seen it that scares me a little. I just don't get it, I went out of my way to get a brand new arm last time and then just a few months later it snaps off almost identical. Last time I paid a shop to have it installed, this time I had a day off because of the 4th and no time to waste waiting for an arm to come and all that because I'll miss to much work. So I pulled one from my uncles scrap yard and cleaned and painted it to keep the rust off and installed it myself. I did notice that the brand new arm from before seems to not have quite as strong of a construction as the original arm however one would think they wouldn't sell something that wasn't strong enough.

I don't think my driving style is horribly rough really, I mean I enjoy my curvy road, but isn't that the whole point of having one of these? I do have the adjustable toe bars and poly bushings, but don't you have super firm suspension Richard? If yours hasn't had issues my surely shouldn't, I'm still riding on stock springs even. Although I was about to change that, now I'm worried a stiffer spring would make it break faster. :( :-?

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15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:35 am 
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I was just looking back at my original post and it has only been since March that I had this problem the first time. I had the arm replaced with a brand new arm, plus at the time I had them inspect the rest of the control arms to make sure they were in good shape. Since then I have replaced both of the front control arms as well, including all the tie rod ends and sway bar end links etc on the front end, because I had some bad ball joints and I wanted to make sure I never have that problem again. So what gives!? The brand new arm is the one that broke not the original arm on the other side which is the only one that hasn't been replaced at this point.


Sorry for ranting I'm just a little frustrated with this, I feel like I'd deserve it if I was neglecting my maintenance, but that isn't the case.

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15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:54 am 
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To be honest, your saga worries me some, as I've never heard of that happening before either and don't want to encounter it.

I obviously flog the crap out of my car all the time on CA canyon roads and at the autocross, and I also run cut springs, poly bushings and toe bars, so even the remote possibility of such a failure gives me the willies :huh:

The only thing that comes to mind to even check is to look at your ebrake cables. They're supposed to have a retainer strap the keeps them from binding in the suspension arm, but if that broke the arm could be leveraged against them. I still don't think that could really cause the arm to snap, but it's the only thing I can think of to check.

Best luck--salvage yard should be as good a source as any for these.

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Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:10 pm 
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I have seen some thing similar before, but it was a front. A friend of mine drove a lifted Nissan pick-up like a formula one and couldn't understand why the ball joints kept failing.

From the photos you posted those arms cracked and gradually broke. The warning signs were there. You may want to start performing regular inspections in the future if you continue to push it hard.

The first one may be attributed to age and stress. The second a faulty or poor quality part. Any thing in the future I would tend to look and how hard you push it.

If you drive it hard in the twisties you may need to do some adjustments to the suspension. You may need to alter your camber settings to compensate for the dynamic loading.

If you are concerned with the strength of future replacements, you can weld boxing plates into them prior to installing. Its not hard, you already know where the flex and break. I would use 1/8" or 3/16" plate and stitch weld a full bottom. Its been done for decades before all the tubular arms were available for popular muscle cars.

Another option is keep spares in the trunk.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:27 pm 
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aqqus wrote:
I have seen some thing similar before, but it was a front. A friend of mine drove a lifted Nissan pick-up like a formula one and couldn't understand why the ball joints kept failing.

From the photos you posted those arms cracked and gradually broke. The warning signs were there. You may want to start performing regular inspections in the future if you continue to push it hard.

The first one may be attributed to age and stress. The second a faulty or poor quality part. Any thing in the future I would tend to look and how hard you push it.

If you drive it hard in the twisties you may need to do some adjustments to the suspension. You may need to alter your camber settings to compensate for the dynamic loading.

If you are concerned with the strength of future replacements, you can weld boxing plates into them prior to installing. Its not hard, you already know where the flex and break. I would use 1/8" or 3/16" plate and stitch weld a full bottom. Its been done for decades before all the tubular arms were available for popular muscle cars.

Another option is keep spares in the trunk.


I get that and I'll box them if I need to, but there are plenty of other people who have been pushing hard in auto cross or whatever and I haven't heard of them having problems. Any of you racer folks on the forum reinforce your rear control arms?

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89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:51 pm 
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Aqqus, the problem with your well thought out statement is that these cars can be thrashed severely without this sort of drama. I doubt many are harder on their car than I am and we are talking NZ roads, not Interstates here.
In my head, there is something else going on. But for the life of me I am stuffed if I can think of the cause. The only thing that comes to mind is bad luck....
Or another piece of the suspension geometry is bent or misaligned. Worst case, check measurements from one side to the other see what or if there is a difference. The service manual also has alignment measures you may want to look at. Just a thought.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:53 am 
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I understand others use these cars for autocross and some people have less than desirable roads to travel and have no problems. Some thing is over stressing the control arms. What I stated is not meant to offend, just throwing my nickel in there. Maybe you just happened to have that run of dumb luck and get to worn out rotted part AND the 10%er. You haven't disturbed any sacred grounds in the back country have you?

While your working and checking thing out this might help. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=8200 Measurements for the chassis.

Just a random thought. Do you bottom out the suspension often? in other words are you hitting the bump stops on a regular basis?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:27 am 
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yeah, mac. i have had quite a few cars with suspension setups that were very tight and i have never had this sort of thing occur.

it appears to be torsional in nature, like the stub was twisted off the control arm. did you grease the stub and block bushing?

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SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:35 am 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
yeah, mac. i have had quite a few cars with suspension setups that were very tight and i have never had this sort of thing occur.

it appears to be torsional in nature, like the stub was twisted off the control arm. did you grease the stub and block bushing?


Yeah there was plenty of grease. I'm not sure ever we put it up on the rack down at the shop and there doesn't seem to be anything hitting or anything like that. It turns out that the used arm I pulled to put on was bent slightly so my camber is off and I'll need to replace it again. Hard to eyeball it when you are pulling a part since they are curved already. The company sent me another arm in a big hurry when I told them the old one snapped. It appears that the other side is also developing a stress fracture as well so I went ahead and just ordered the other arm as well since that is the only original arm. I'm going to just have both brand new arms box welded and we'll see if that won't cure it for now.

They sent me a new arm next day mail at no charge to me, I think they were worried and my other arm has come in now too. I'm going to have them welded and then replace both at the same time.

It is all very puzzling still to me, when it was up on the rack I was able to grab the bottom and bounce up and down to watch the suspension and nothing hits or even comes close to hitting. Perhaps I just had some quality issues with the part??? Not sure at this point.

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89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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