TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:14 pm

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 2:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 pm
Posts: 160
Location: N Portland Oregon
Image

Image

Image

So i put the vogtland lowering coils on. The metro of mine has new struts with original coils. The swift has new lowering coils with 2-3 year old struts. (kyb gr2) on both of them. The tires on the rear of the swift are 185-70-13 and are temporary until i get my new suspension control parts on. So it will sit a little lower when i put the 195-50-15 tires on. I will go measure the arch from the ground on both and compare. They claimed they are a 1.6" drop. I'm seeing about a 1inch difference between the swift and metro. Seems to ride okay. I'm going to add a rear swaybar soon. Any ideas if this seems right?

_________________
1994 Suzuki Swift GA SOHC. 4/5
Vogtland lowering coils
Ngk plugs
8mm silicon wires.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 5:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 12:48 am
Posts: 170
Location: San Diego CA
Once you ride them for a couple miles they will drop a little more... Best handling investment I have ever done to my swift, i went with H&R, how much did these cost you, I got mine for 175 Shipped new.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 2:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:45 pm
Posts: 119
Location: Trinidad
I didnt take measurements when i had them on, but these springs generally have the back higher than the front unlike a set of springs i had before and many springs I have seen others used. They are some decent springs, car handled nicely with them


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 4:31 pm 
Offline
Suzuki Elder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
the purple vogtland springs can be asjusted by cutting the closely spaced coils. those are just there to maintain the stack height for the suspension. they don't actively spring the car, they just take up space.

when you compress the springs the gaps close up quickly on those coils and the spring rate is set by the more widely spaced coils.

if you choose to cut them, use a pneumatic cutoff wheel and don't heat the springs too much. make sure you cut the closely spaced coils and not the other ends of the springs. :wink:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 4:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 pm
Posts: 160
Location: N Portland Oregon
I paid about 200 for these. I mean the suspension is way better then the metros suspension in the picture. Allegedly these have a lifetime warrenty against sagging. I already drove the car about 3-400 miles when I took this picture. I am waiting on my control arm and tie rods before I do anything. I am still putting my OZ lancer wheels on with the 195-50-15 tires. If all is well then I may jist say screw it and cut a coil front and rear. I need to stop procrastinating and put on the rear sway bar. If all plans go well this fall then ill buy a set of coilovers. I do know I would rather put on the larger diameter bars on before the coilovers.

_________________
1994 Suzuki Swift GA SOHC. 4/5
Vogtland lowering coils
Ngk plugs
8mm silicon wires.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 10:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 pm
Posts: 160
Location: N Portland Oregon
BikeAmusPrime wrote:
I paid about 200 for these. I mean the suspension is way better then the metros suspension in the picture. Allegedly these have a lifetime warrenty against sagging. I already drove the car about 3-400 miles when I took this picture. I am waiting on my control arm and tie rods before I do anything. I am still putting my OZ lancer wheels on with the 195-50-15 tires. If all is well then I may jist say screw it and cut a coil front and rear. I need to stop procrastinating and put on the rear sway bar. If all plans go well this fall then ill buy a set of coilovers. I do know I would rather put on the larger diameter bars on before the coilovers.



I have installed the control arms, inner and outer tie rods. I just got it aligned. Im still not impressed with these coils yet. I think the spring rate is too soft. I think it should have stiffer spring rate. It feels (to me) that the front should be a little lower and stiffer all the way around.

With this being said, I think that the 195 50 15 tires are going to rub. I want the front of the car a little lower, but I think it would be too soft for how I drive. I bought it off ebay and the seller has a couple of swifts and metros listed in the pictures of the ad seem to be different heights. That and one of them seem to be a forum members cars. I almost dont think they either stole pictures or what? Im using my phone right now so I don't have the energy to type a ton.

_________________
1994 Suzuki Swift GA SOHC. 4/5
Vogtland lowering coils
Ngk plugs
8mm silicon wires.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 12:48 am
Posts: 170
Location: San Diego CA
You work for dominos? I work for dominos san diego! the h&r id say are really firm, not soft.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 4:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 pm
Posts: 160
Location: N Portland Oregon
pvr007 wrote:
You work for dominos? I work for dominos san diego! the h&r id say are really firm, not soft.



I work for pizza hut. My girlfriend works for dominos. I let her drive the metro so she doesn't beat up my gti. Which im currently getting ready to put a turbo and timing stuff on it. I feel they should be stiffer. I may have to get some brand new struts and add the rear sway bar. But I may even change out the whole shebang. I am going go to les Schwab tomorrow and test fit the tires.

_________________
1994 Suzuki Swift GA SOHC. 4/5
Vogtland lowering coils
Ngk plugs
8mm silicon wires.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:16 pm 
Offline
Suzuki Elder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
the wheel offset is key to getting 195/50 15 rubber to fit.

my advice to you is to stay with standard replacement struts and springs instead of running coil overs on anything except a competition car. first, it's a huge chunk of change for components and a lot of fabrication to do the inserts for the front suspension. on the back end you have to chop the inner fender away to open up the strut tower cavity to get a coil over in there. you would also want to reinforce the strut towers at the top so that you don't drive the coil overs up through the chassis. coil overs put all their pressure on those points on the chassis unlike the oem configuration which locates the rear springs in perches along the frame rails.

the vogtland springs are one of 2 manufacturers i have not used (along with kings springs.) i have had conversations with guys who have used them and i test drove one gt that was sprung on them.

like pvr, i prefer the h&r sport springs with kyb gr2 struts. :wink:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 pm
Posts: 160
Location: N Portland Oregon
t3 ragtop wrote:
the wheel offset is key to getting 195/50 15 rubber to fit.

my advice to you is to stay with standard replacement struts and springs instead of running coil overs on anything except a competition car. first, it's a huge chunk of change for components and a lot of fabrication to do the inserts for the front suspension. on the back end you have to chop the inner fender away to open up the strut tower cavity to get a coil over in there. you would also want to reinforce the strut towers at the top so that you don't drive the coil overs up through the chassis. coil overs put all their pressure on those points on the chassis unlike the oem configuration which locates the rear springs in perches along the frame rails.

the vogtland springs are one of 2 manufacturers i have not used (along with kings springs.) i have had conversations with guys who have used them and i test drove one gt that was sprung on them.

like pvr, i prefer the h&r sport springs with kyb gr2 struts. :wink:


Well I can all ways return the coils. But I just paid for a 4 wheel alignment and a ton of other stuff. I doubt if I return the springs and get the h&r's on there they will let me realign my car without repaying. They just feel too soft. Im gonna upload some pictures. I would be fine with the height if it was stiffer.

_________________
1994 Suzuki Swift GA SOHC. 4/5
Vogtland lowering coils
Ngk plugs
8mm silicon wires.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 pm
Posts: 160
Location: N Portland Oregon
Image

This picture I took everything out.

Image

This picture I had the old wheels and tires in the back. It shouldn't drop that much with that little of weight.


So far I haven't noticed any rubbing. I was about to start really driving it on spme country windy roads but it started making some wierd klunking sound that is only getting worse. I have only driven this about 4 miles since everything got installed and aligned. Im guessing a tierod not tightened or maybe one of the axles or wheel bearings died. Its coming fast and getting louder. So im not driving it until I tomorrow to goto les Schwab to get it checked out. I dont have access to my car lift becuase I have another car thats getting worked on. I double checked everything I put on. I hope its a easy cheap fix. I just dropped most of my cash and am just about out.

_________________
1994 Suzuki Swift GA SOHC. 4/5
Vogtland lowering coils
Ngk plugs
8mm silicon wires.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 3:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 12:48 am
Posts: 170
Location: San Diego CA
Bad balljoint?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 4:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 pm
Posts: 160
Location: N Portland Oregon
pvr007 wrote:
Bad balljoint?

All brand new control parts. Plus I got it aligned. Its all really tight. Im thinking something like the hub or axle?

_________________
1994 Suzuki Swift GA SOHC. 4/5
Vogtland lowering coils
Ngk plugs
8mm silicon wires.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 1:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 pm
Posts: 160
Location: N Portland Oregon
The tire shop forgotten to tighten the lug nuts. I went outside to talk to my neighbor about the wheels and tires on our cars, when I was talking about how I kind of dont like the lug nuts I grabbed the lug tool and stuck it on the lug to twist and jiggle it around, the lug was like halfway on. Two were threaded out a couple of turns one was hand tight. The last was fairly tight. I torqued them all around to 80lbs or torque. The stupid thing is I just ordered a set of axles. But I was gonna do them later on In the next couple of months.

The coils feel really soft. I went blasting down the road after I checked everything was good and felt squishy around corners with the ass drop on hard acceleration. The Yokohama tires are great. Even with the rear squatting on quick acceleration it grips really well. But when im racing down the road it feels like im cadillac'n and it just feels like a tiny boat. How do the h&r coils feel? I think im going to call and see if they will return these coils. I would rather have my car higher with a stiffer suspension then with a minimally lower height and soft feeling suspension.

_________________
1994 Suzuki Swift GA SOHC. 4/5
Vogtland lowering coils
Ngk plugs
8mm silicon wires.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 5:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 12:48 am
Posts: 170
Location: San Diego CA
80ft lbs is incorrect, if i can remember is 45-50 fts lbs. you might get warped rotors. H&rs are quite firm, i cant compare them to yours but in my opinion i would only be able to go firmer if i installed some konis. Using s drives? I love the tires but for a daily use i found them to not last too long and the price pretty high.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 5:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
it is too soft in corners or over bumps? going for harder linear springs will make cornering better, but kinda dangerous over bumps..
i find my stock springs (kyb premium front/gr2 rear) a little too soft all around in corners, but over bumps it's way too stiff, specially rear.. so progressive springs are only better alternative.. and better struts ofc, don't know about koni yellow, but except that there is only custom build option.. (front coilovers and on rear custom spring in position where stock spring is, if you dont want to reinforce towers and install roll bar for coilovers)

that's MG ZR 105 car in race, but that's how 80% of roads i'm driving at look like.. (too stiff suspension, and yeah a little problems with gearbox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDePvoCQwfE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 5:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
pvr007 wrote:
80ft lbs is incorrect, if i can remember is 45-50 fts lbs. you might get warped rotors. H&rs are quite firm, i cant compare them to yours but in my opinion i would only be able to go firmer if i installed some konis. Using s drives? I love the tires but for a daily use i found them to not last too long and the price pretty high.


on my wheels it says i should tighten nuts 8kg (60 ft lb) but we allways tighten all alloys 10kg (about 70 ft lb) for street and race cars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 8:47 am 
Offline
Suzuki Elder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
i tighten my lug nuts to 45 ft/lbs on suzuki 7 spokes. those have steel inserts that accept the wheel lugs and keep the nuts from biting into the aluminum alloy. it helps to have wheels that have the properly sized hub fitment to provide concentricity. that way the lugs only have to hold the wheel in place instead of also holding them in position

the h&r sport springs are firmer than the oem springs and lower the suspension height by 1.4" which is within the warranty maximum range for the kyb struts.

struts assist the springs and kyb gr2 struts are a gas over oil type which actually help to push the tires down after being compressed. struts really don't do the work of suspending the chassis, they only "tune" the rate at which the springs travel. the springs, pretty much alone, do the job of controlling the motion of the control arms.

those vogtland springs have closely wound coils, helper or dead coils, at the bottoms that set the height of the suspension. the dead coils don't do anything much to set the spring rate. when the car is on the ground the dead coils compress to the point where they touch the next dead coil so in effect they just take up space in the stack height of the suspension which helps to hold the springs in their seats.

out of all of the struts i have used i like the kyb gr2 best. i find that the koni yellow struts make for a harsh ride, monroe and gabriel struts don't do anything for me, even their top line gas over struts. i think that has a lot to do with their valving.

i tried apex (yellow) springs with some expensive koni yellow struts and they made my vert ride like a log wagon. i didn't want to pay $1000 for adjustable koni struts after i tried the $500 set of non-adjustable koni struts. i bought a set of hot bits coil overs that were $1500 and sent them to a new owner at a loss, unable to justify using them on a street cruiser.

i have cut oem springs in various ways and to various ride heights and that is the cheapest way to go but there are drawbacks in doing that.

overall, there are some other things that really contribute to suspension modification and ride. you can only get so far by bolting on springs and struts. our cars are old enough that the oem live rubber bushings are now "dead." the rubber degrades to the point of being pretty useless and that seriously affects proper motion control of the suspension. i like whiteline polyurethane bushings all around as replacements but you need to be prepared for the hassle of pressing out the old bushings and pressing the new ones into certain places. the bottom ears of the rear knuckles being the hardest to deal with, in my opinion.

but, after you replace the suspension bushings everything tightens back up. the slop of the dead rubber bushings is taken care of and you can actually hold wheel alignment settings, especially in the rear toe settings.

that brings up another pet peeve of mine. the oem stamped steel toe control links just don't do a good job of holding the rear toe settings and they flex under hard cornering to the point where doing everything that you can do to tighten up the rear suspension is lost when the toe control links don't do their job. i like tubular links that don't flex. they will hold the toe settings. don't bother with replacing dead bushings without fixing that flexing problem. :blackeye:

sway bars with good polyurethane bushings on the end links help to improve compliance and help to control the ride and body sway. they also help to keep the rubber planted on the road. i have found that i specifically like the smaller diameter sway bars from the 89 - 91 gt cars for a little softer ride on my street cars but the larger the diameter of the sway bar, the flatter your car will corner.

getting the right combination of suspension parts is probably the hardest thing to settle on and without doing the work of swapping out springs and struts until you find something that works for you the only thing i can see of any benefit is to read what others have done and take a shot at doing something similar.

that being said, there have been some individuals who have followed the same path as me with very similar results after doing the whiteline bushings, h&r sport springs, and kyb struts. it's a tried and true suspension upgrade. :wink:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 1:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 pm
Posts: 160
Location: N Portland Oregon
t3 ragtop wrote:
i tighten my lug nuts to 45 ft/lbs on suzuki 7 spokes. those have steel inserts that accept the wheel lugs and keep the nuts from biting into the aluminum alloy. it helps to have wheels that have the properly sized hub fitment to provide concentricity. that way the lugs only have to hold the wheel in place instead of also holding them in position

the h&r sport springs are firmer than the oem springs and lower the suspension height by 1.4" which is within the warranty maximum range for the kyb struts.

struts assist the springs and kyb gr2 struts are a gas over oil type which actually help to push the tires down after being compressed. struts really don't do the work of suspending the chassis, they only "tune" the rate at which the springs travel. the springs, pretty much alone, do the job of controlling the motion of the control arms.

those vogtland springs have closely wound coils, helper or dead coils, at the bottoms that set the height of the suspension. the dead coils don't do anything much to set the spring rate. when the car is on the ground the dead coils compress to the point where they touch the next dead coil so in effect they just take up space in the stack height of the suspension which helps to hold the springs in their seats.

out of all of the struts i have used i like the kyb gr2 best. i find that the koni yellow struts make for a harsh ride, monroe and gabriel struts don't do anything for me, even their top line gas over struts. i think that has a lot to do with their valving.

i tried apex (yellow) springs with some expensive koni yellow struts and they made my vert ride like a log wagon. i didn't want to pay $1000 for adjustable koni struts after i tried the $500 set of non-adjustable koni struts. i bought a set of hot bits coil overs that were $1500 and sent them to a new owner at a loss, unable to justify using them on a street cruiser.

i have cut oem springs in various ways and to various ride heights and that is the cheapest way to go but there are drawbacks in doing that.

overall, there are some other things that really contribute to suspension modification and ride. you can only get so far by bolting on springs and struts. our cars are old enough that the oem live rubber bushings are now "dead." the rubber degrades to the point of being pretty useless and that seriously affects proper motion control of the suspension. i like whiteline polyurethane bushings all around as replacements but you need to be prepared for the hassle of pressing out the old bushings and pressing the new ones into certain places. the bottom ears of the rear knuckles being the hardest to deal with, in my opinion.

but, after you replace the suspension bushings everything tightens back up. the slop of the dead rubber bushings is taken care of and you can actually hold wheel alignment settings, especially in the rear toe settings.

that brings up another pet peeve of mine. the oem stamped steel toe control links just don't do a good job of holding the rear toe settings and they flex under hard cornering to the point where doing everything that you can do to tighten up the rear suspension is lost when the toe control links don't do their job. i like tubular links that don't flex. they will hold the toe settings. don't bother with replacing dead bushings without fixing that flexing problem. :blackeye:

sway bars with good polyurethane bushings on the end links help to improve compliance and help to control the ride and body sway. they also help to keep the rubber planted on the road. i have found that i specifically like the smaller diameter sway bars from the 89 - 91 gt cars for a little softer ride on my street cars but the larger the diameter of the sway bar, the flatter your car will corner.

getting the right combination of suspension parts is probably the hardest thing to settle on and without doing the work of swapping out springs and struts until you find something that works for you the only thing i can see of any benefit is to read what others have done and take a shot at doing something similar.

that being said, there have been some individuals who have followed the same path as me with very similar results after doing the whiteline bushings, h&r sport springs, and kyb struts. it's a tried and true suspension upgrade. :wink:


Well I do plan on putting white line bushings on all the way around. Im also going to put the biggest front and rear sway bar set on. I still have to get the new axles on and try to find what bearings are on the cv half shaft and replace them with SKF bearings. The rear toe bars are on the list to get when I get poly bushings.

_________________
1994 Suzuki Swift GA SOHC. 4/5
Vogtland lowering coils
Ngk plugs
8mm silicon wires.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 7:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:10 pm
Posts: 416
Location: Spruce Grove Alberta
that being said, there have been some individuals who have followed the same path as me with very similar results after doing the whiteline bushings, h&r sport springs, and kyb struts. it's a tried and true suspension upgrade. :wink:[/quote]

Totally agree - been there - and yes the Apex Yellow springs are hard. But the Car handles quite well.

rough road are not kind to my seat !

_________________
90 Swift GT - GT-BBT25 turbo Red - For Sale
99 MX-5 10th AE Saphire Blue
2011 Infiniti G37x
2010 Equator White
2000 Solara convert


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 8:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 pm
Posts: 160
Location: N Portland Oregon
wgotzman wrote:
that being said, there have been some individuals who have followed the same path as me with very similar results after doing the whiteline bushings, h&r sport springs, and kyb struts. it's a tried and true suspension upgrade. :wink:


Totally agree - been there - and yes the Apex Yellow springs are hard. But the Car handles quite well.

rough road are not kind to my seat ![/quote]

What tire size, wheel size, sway bars and body style of you car?

_________________
1994 Suzuki Swift GA SOHC. 4/5
Vogtland lowering coils
Ngk plugs
8mm silicon wires.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 10:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:10 pm
Posts: 416
Location: Spruce Grove Alberta
BikeAmusPrime wrote:
wgotzman wrote:
that being said, there have been some individuals who have followed the same path as me with very similar results after doing the whiteline bushings, h&r sport springs, and kyb struts. it's a tried and true suspension upgrade. :wink:


Totally agree - been there - and yes the Apex Yellow springs are hard. But the Car handles quite well.

rough road are not kind to my seat !


What tire size, wheel size, sway bars and body style of you car?[/quote]

205/40/16 1990 swift GT swaybar 92 rear front 25mm? i think
poly bushings

_________________
90 Swift GT - GT-BBT25 turbo Red - For Sale
99 MX-5 10th AE Saphire Blue
2011 Infiniti G37x
2010 Equator White
2000 Solara convert


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group