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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:02 am 
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i'm looking @ all the different quad throttle body setups found on the various motorcycles, like the suzuki gsxr 750 that GMC recommended. i believe it is using quad 38mm tb's & looks perfect for our swifts. has anyone tried this before & how would it compare to using side-draft carbs ? the biggest issue i can see is how to work a MAF into the picture.<br>any suggestions/advice would be a big help =) thanks<br> <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:12 am 
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i've been thinking about making a cold air/ram air box under the hood & then hooking up a big 60mm modified ford maf & filter leading to another box @ the back of the tb's ?<br>thanks again. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Quads
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:25 am 
I will be using quad 35mm throttles on my car. Why are you looking into running a MAF on yours? Are you going to retain the stock ECU? I was looking into using a haltech ek6 ECU, that way there is no need to run the MAf, taking away the need for a plenum, I have been told the best way to do it is to just run 4 intake socks, one for each throttle body, taking away the need for a plenum, and there for not having to relocate the brake booster, although I dont know how you guys have that set up being LHD and all. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Quads
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:06 am 
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I don' t think you will see noticable gains with a quad set up and still running stock ecu / maf. It will be cool thought <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>remember on a carb a 45mm weber isn't true 45mm. after the choke, velicty thingy <i'm a carb expert can u tell> you sure don't have 45mm anymore. <br>a 45mm carb won't be the best for a street car.<br>TB's on fuel injection you can get away with way biger TB's I meet a guy with a b16 honda with 50mm TB's and it freaking rocks...<br><br>kris do these interest you?<br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://groups.msn.com/holyshift/forsale.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=143">Solex 40mm</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://groups.msn.com/holyshift/forsale.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=144">Solex 4omm Downdraft</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p>MURR<br>Racing... Because other sports require only 1 ball</p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Quad damage
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:28 pm 
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how do you build a stand alone computer for tb's w/ quad tb's ? i'm not sure how the computer is supposed to recognize the volume of air the engine is using to match the fuel ratio w/ only a tps sensor ?<br>what else do you have to base the volume/density of the air from other then engine speed ?<br><br>ps pics of the gsx-r 750 tb's<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.wizardly.org/swifts/misc/gsxr750_quad_damage.JPG" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub83.ezboard.com/bteamswift.showUserPublicProfile?gid=n1tr0>n1tr0</A> at: 9/6/03 12:31 pm<br></i>


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 Post subject: ecu replacement
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 1:12 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, CANADA
Take a look at http://www.megasquirt.com <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: ecu replacement
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:54 pm 
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i read through it again, damn it looks good =) .. now i just have to learn how you do the ignition timing like you've got =)<br>anyways, back to packing .. have to move to victoria tmrw .. <br>i'll be back online monday & back in abbotsford monday/tuesday =) ..<br>thanks<br>oh & i'm going to get a set of tb's & injectors for a gsx-r 1000 =)<br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: ecu replacement
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 7:29 am 
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Don' t learn about the ignition. just buy it <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>TB's are soo cool. they sound really freaking cool <p>MURR<br>Racing... Because other sports require only 1 ball</p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: ecu replacement
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 11:20 am 
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hey if wayne wants to sell a stand alone ignition system 'n' help me machine the tb adapter, i'd be in heaven <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>i wonder how many subsystems i'll have to replace/wire in manually when i switch over to the megasquirt .. <br>the specs & software for it really leave me drooling.<br>here's the official site i believe. <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html">www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: ecu replacement
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 3:15 pm 
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Well kris<br><br>I would ask him. <br>As we have seen the pics of the 3 cylinder stuff, and the quad carbs on his new project... I would assume he is building a chopper wheel and pickup.<br><br>also Big daddy webstore man. has one of the stand alone ignitions...<br><br>Curious? do you not have Air-care to deal with? I know nothing about it, as living in the boonies we don't even have stop lights... <p>MURR<br>Racing... Because other sports require only 1 ball</p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: ecu replacement
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:07 pm 
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The ecu runs off rpm as well as your tps setting with quad tb's. They also use a MAP sensor and an o2 sensor. Megasquirt is a decent product but you then have to add ignition into the equation. Aftermarket ECU's can control both. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: ecu replacement
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:35 am 
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Too bad it's a complication when doing certain things to engines to have to deal with ecus, sensors, etc. My first car, a 1974 Datsun 260Z had triple 40DCOE Weber carbs(double barrelled side draft), chrome headers, wide open exhaust, 290 degree cams, p&p head, recurved distributer, etc etc. Sounded very mean and race-car like. No torque below 3500rpm, but it was like a turbo kicking in at 4500-7000rpm. Had lots of fun smoking V8's back in the days before the import scene was on the map. The original 5.0 liter eater. Handled pretty good too. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: ecu replacement
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:01 am 
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Like Murr said,<br><br>Webers 45mm are not real 45mm. For reference My setup is similar to what you want, I have a dual weber dcoe 45mm setup with a electromotive hpx ignition. This make your swift an animal.<br><br>This is the setup on the webers:<br>- 160 main jets<br>- 200 air jets<br>- 60F9 idle jets<br>- 50 pump jets<br>- 38mm Choke<br>- TWM 30mm long air horns.<br><br>The engine revs to 9,000 rpm and ask for more. I need to change the rods and then get 10,000 rpm.<br><br>Bolivar<br><br>Bolivar <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: ecu replacement
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:19 pm 
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no aircare on vancouver island =) just got the internet hooked up in the new appt. in victoria =)<br>that 'n' the car is already aircared for another 1.5 years =)<br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: ecu replacement
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:13 pm 
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I have been talking to some drag bike guys lately about their carbs...these guys are making 1200-1400hp from engines of that cc size.<br><br>They reckon for all-out power but much less driveability use 40mm flatslides...for better driveability use 40mm constant velocity carbs. But, they also said that anythng from the 4x32mm banks of carbs upwards will be a major improvement. <br><br>Even 4x34mm carbs gives you twice the butterfly area of a single 45mm butterfly. 4x40mm carbs gives you the same area as a single 80mm butterfly. Easy enough to get the fuel in. As Murr says, Webers are not really true 45mm..they are choked down...in his case to 38mm. The constant velocity carbs has variable chokes, which is why they are much more driveable. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Quads
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:37 am 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
n1tr0,<br><br>did you get my pictures??? post them up for the others<br><br>Shane<br><br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Quads
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:57 pm 
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i don't think i did, how long ago were they sent ? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Quads
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 2:38 am 
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You would know if you got them, they were the quads t/b setup on my Red MK1. If not, I will send them again. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Quads
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 2:46 am 
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fire away .. quad tb's or carbs ?<br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Quads
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:23 am 
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They are quad throttle bodies of a mid 80's Kawasaki 1100.<br>I will re-send my original email.... <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Quads
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:37 pm 
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Ive worked on and built many race bikes and as far as the head/inlet/valve arrangment (no matter what you do)on the Gti motor for very short course/street/auto-x, 36mm are the size you want, for very long track road racing 38 would be best (meaning your rpm's will never drop under 6 grand). 40mm will just rob avalible bottom end. this is fact, do not think that what works on a modern bike is what you need, as they do not need tourqe and you will never spin 14 to 16 grand! It was not long ago that 1100 super bikes came with 32mm carbs. But if you want a slung and a nice wet plug go ahead and mount a set of 40's or even better yet run like the pro's and put on those he-man 44's, BIGGER is better right? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Quads
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:48 pm 
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they're so cheap & the spacing should be the same for both the 750 & 1000 gsx-r's i just went w/ the least expensive set to start w/. these aren't carbs 'tho, and since the injectors are actually spraying from the tb's rather then directly in the head, they should offer better mixing then the stock setup anyways ..<br>just curious about all the race bikes, have they been tb/injection or carb ?<br>i'm definately expecting to lose a bunch of torque, but based on my drive through the canyons yesterday, my revs never dropped below 4500rpm anyways .. 'n' i was hitting the rev limiter (crappy stock ecu right now) in 3rd & 4th far too often. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Quads
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 2:14 pm 
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That's the great thing about gsxr quads they'll work great on GTi and I know how to far emprove there tourqe make ability. they are cheap as boarch because hard core bike guy's want carbs......... hum....?? yes there is a reason., but lets stick to cars. most of my 20 plus years of racing was with carbs..uh the good old days. but all the induction princeples still cross over to a quad style f/e unit less the injector timing part. I do know how to make a set of 38 quads tourqe like 36 carbs and they would still take you to 14 plus grand ( not that you will be knocking on that door). Not to tote my own horn but I did spank a world record by a unheard of amount. tweaking induction is fun but can be very time consuming. Yes you are right the spray inlet is better then the GTi style setup and as a matter of fact the Ducati F/e system goes one set further by shotting the fuel straight in before the throat and valve inlet. In the end with the 750 quads setup right with some tweaks you would lose so little that it's no big deal but she will come on like a bat out of hell after 7 grand. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Quads
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:58 pm 
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after 7 .. damn .. i'd like it to kick in @ around 4500 & pull to 9 or 10 ..<br>nothing sexier then the engine scream echoing off the rock walls around you.<br> <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:11 pm 
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i'll let shane give all the dirty details about his setup, but it looks pretty mean .. a lot longer runner then what i'd planned ..<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.wizardly.org/swifts/misc/quad_mk1_1.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.wizardly.org/swifts/misc/quad_mk1_2.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i></i>


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