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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:15 pm 
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Can anyone suggest to me what would be a good cam profile to use with the Toms Chip?

I heard that the Chip's map was originally from a Suzuki Motorsport Rally Chip. Does anyone know what was the spec of the cam they normally used with it?? I have a friend who is working out a profile for me based on some Cosworth Cams that he used on a Cosworth Engined Lotus Elan that he raced.

I plan to do some radical mods to the engine to wring as much power as I canout of this baby. I currently have a STD Cultus Engine, but already purchased a Stage III Cold air system, will be match porting head and manifold etc., installing piggy back fuel controller etc. have 2"exhaust system, plan to use 52" throttle body. Using the car for aurocross and time trials.

Has anyone used this chip with the SSGTI cams?? Is it a good combo?

I have some specs here for a Factory Rally cam from Suzuki:

256/264 , @.050" - 224/234, do you think it would work better (more torque low down) if I used a faster lift (higher valve acceleration).

How do you think a 272/272 setup would work?? I plan to stick with the EFI so I know the cams cant be too radical.

Any suggestions?? My ultimate target is 170Hp.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:55 pm 
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My friend advised me to use the following specs:


Duration @.050" Gross
272/272 230/230 .352"/.352"

This is a rally/race spec, deos anyone think this might be too hot for street use??

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:26 pm 
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170hp NA? If so you better buckle up cause thats not going to be anywhere near cheap or easy...if at all possible. With the amount of mods your going to need to hit (or even get close) to that target you'll be needing a standalone system so you may as well toss the chip.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:27 pm 
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You should definitely get an aftermarket computer.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:58 pm 
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....and we have a way better option for cams - click the 3 tech performance link and talk to suprf1y.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:14 pm 
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From my experience, and customer feedback, I can see no reason to run as much as 230 degrees duration (at .050" lift) in a GTi motor, unless its max effort/full race.
If you can make power to almost 9000RPM with as little as 210 degrees, IMO it doesn't make alot of sense to move your powerband up, possibly 2k, when you could really use the low-end torque on the street.
Thats my 2 cents.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:47 pm 
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suprf1y wrote:
From my experience, and customer feedback, I can see no reason to run as much as 230 degrees duration (at .050" lift) in a GTi motor, unless its max effort/full race.
If you can make power to almost 9000RPM with as little as 210 degrees, IMO it doesn't make alot of sense to move your powerband up, possibly 2k, when you could really use the low-end torque on the street.
Thats my 2 cents.


I want the car to remain streetable, so then I suppose the 224/234 profile should be the better option. I dont want to power band to get too narrow.

What kind of cam can you supply me with suprf1y? Also, can you grind the Suzuki spec Rally cam as a one off for me??

The car will be used in Autocross and Time Trial events (circuit) as well as everyday transport for myself. I would like a powerband starting at around 3500 RPM probably up to 8500rpm, dont need to hit 9000 if not necessary.

The stand alone comuter Im considering, but that may be last thing I add on after I do all the other mods. If I can get around 160 that would be fine.

Tell me what you think would be the best option camwise.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:54 pm 
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Your going about this all wrong. Your not going to get a streetable NA Swift that dynos 160Hp. You'll be lucky to get the car to 130Hp and not have it terribly tempermental. There isn't a chip on the planet thats gonna run the car well with the amount of mods that you'll need to hit those figures.

Heres a better question...what kind of budget are you on? If you want power like that your best option is to turbo the car and forget about NA unless you have a lot of money to throw around.

Why are you stuck on the 160-170Hp number? I ask because most people set goals (2.xxmins around a track or 13.xx seconds in the 1/4) that they would like to acheive. You may not need that kind of power for what you are trying to accomplish and there may a much more reasonable way to attain your goals.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:54 pm 
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Yes good point, I know I could turbo the car and make lotsa power, but i really woulda like to stick to N/A ( I like the sound of it, I know it sounds dumb but to me thats part of the charm of this little car, heck, I could get a Cultus Turbo engine for a lot less than what Im probably spending).

I sorta used 160 to 170 as a benchmark because based on what ive read that seems to be a figure thats attainable N/A (highly modified), also, at 1800 lbs thats would give me the power to weight ratio I need to be competitive against some of the more powerful cars im running against (EVOs and Subarus included).

I you guys think im wasting my time tell me and I'll look at some other options, but I know 160 is attainable in rally spec which is a state of tune that I would be comfortable with on the road.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:18 pm 
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I just found this thread:

http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=19024

This guy used this cam with the same chip, I think this might be something like what im looking for. Power from low down the rpm band.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:50 pm 
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I think a goal of 130hp shouldn't be a problem. 160-170 on the street, I think is.
That cam profile (210/340) is a good aggressive street/race type cam, suitable to 8500RPM. Any more duration than the 210, and I think you will be nedlessly sacrificing low RPM power, for upper RPM power you will never use.
Thats my opinion.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:03 pm 
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I think the number is attainable...just not at a reasonable cost. I really question driveability of a 160HP NA Swift though. You may think that the rally spec cars are driveable but how many Swifts have you seen at this power level NA driven on the street? For that matter...how many have you seen pushing that power at all in NA trim? There can't be too many around. I mean hell if you can pony up the coin to pull it off more power to you (no pun intended) . I think it would be an amazing engine and having that power in NA trim would be icing on the cake. I just don't think its something you should undertake unless you have an inexhaustable budget. Your going to be looking into a LOT of machine work to get the engine to that level. Things like head/block work add up pretty quickly when your going all out. I can't see many, if any, places your going to be able to cut corners to get those power levels. If you go through with it though please document it so that everybody can see how you did it :thumbsup:.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:21 pm 
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Right, now since talking to you guys Ive done some re thinking, Im going to change my approach to building this engine, but its still going to be N/A.

You guys may be right, i have to spend more than i anticipated, but I have ways to keep the cost down.

Anyway, Ill tell you guys step by step how things go. Ill post some pics at different stages. The first thing I have to do is a dyno run on my stock motor, then we can see whatever improvement I get.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:43 pm 
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this sounds like it could be a good thread if you keep updating us with upgrades and dyno runs to see the improvements.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:41 pm 
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Im thinking about getting some oversized valves, can anyone say where I might be able to source these at an affordable price.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:47 pm 
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I think that Mike (suprf1y) is still trying to source some.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:08 pm 
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I just spoke to my supplier on Thursday.
There have been some delays, and I expect an answer next week.
.5mm o/s SS for GT
1mm o/s SS for the 89 + 3cyl.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:24 pm 
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Hope he gives you good news :P

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:20 am 
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Put it to ya this way man a Swift rally engine is for sale in Ireland atm....
The guy wants €6,800Euro for a 156hp engine alone!!!!

Plus if ur goin for power like that..wont be long till ur gearbox melts so thats a few more grand for that etc!!!

Was lookin at adds for rally g-boxes and a Quaife 5-speed for the swift 2nd hand was €2500Euro!!!!!

I love the NA idea myself but my figures would be more along the lines of Suprf1y's 130hp.

Anyway go for it and let us know how u get on dude!!! :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:35 pm 
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I thought about the Gearbox problem, as it is I have to get a new one because this ones giving me some trouble. Does anyone here know what a Jack Knight gearset for the GTI would cost ??

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:25 am 
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Never heard of Jack Knight?

Maybe its the "Michael Knight" gear "kit" !!!!

:rollin:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:16 pm 
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G10 wrote:
Maybe its the "Michael Knight" gear "kit" !!!!
:rollin:


:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:27 pm 
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I seem to forget that many of you guys here are probably very young, we've been using Jack Knight gearboxes in local racing here for many years. A friend of mine used a gearset in his Nissan a few years back.

See here guys, for those who didnt know.

http://www.jackknight.co.uk/products/ge ... arsets.php

Jack Knight = quality

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:27 am 
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I'm old.
I remember when Jack Knight made 5 speed gearboxes for Mini's back in the late 60's/early 70's.
They were the bees knees for Mini owners, but quite a few $$$$


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:02 pm 
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A local racer here (Englishman) brought down a set for his Swift Rally Car, the car was sold and a guy has it in his Turbocharged Roadgoing Swift.

The gearbox took a lot of hardcore racing from the rallydriver.

I wrote them but havent received a reply yet, Ive seen some prices ranging at around 1250 pounds for a gearset. Thats quite hefty. My gearbox has just started making noise and I think I have to replace or fix.

Would be lovely to get a nice set of Khight gears in there.

I think I may also need to replace clutch and clutch disc.

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