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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:27 pm 
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My car doesn't have AC anyway so I used a bandsaw to cut off the extra bit on the crank pulley that would normally carry the AC belt. Removing that dead weight lightened the stock steel pulley by 1/2 pound and I'm hoping it will be a noticable, albeit slight, improvement. I'm going to see if an acquintance of mine will use his lathe to clean up the face of the pulley otherwise I'll just dress it up a bit with the angle grinder and give it a coat of tremclad.

Unfortunately I'm going to be installing this lightened pulley the same time I install my +10 cam gear so I won't be able to give a seat of the pants review of just the pulley. If anyone has just done the pulley, could they comment on how it improved performance?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:36 pm 
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i was going to do the same thing, but wasnt sure if it would destroy the bottom bearings from being WAY not balanced.

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1989 Turbo Sprint 1.0 Mechanically stock. ~RIP~
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:02 pm 
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Well, if I can get it faced on the lathe then it will be trued up and as balanced as it ever was from the factory. Really though, the bandsaw didn't butcher it like a cutting torch would have so I don't think the balance would be too bad anyway.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:19 pm 
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CanFire wrote:
Well, if I can get it faced on the lathe then it will be trued up and as balanced as it ever was from the factory. Really though, the bandsaw didn't butcher it like a cutting torch would have so I don't think the balance would be too bad anyway.


the basic design of a 3 cylinder engine can make for some really wicked crank whip that can take out the first main bearing if balance is off just a little bit. the g10 is sort of well known for eating the woodruff key under the timing sprocket and chipping out the broached keyway in the crank and that's a classic indicator of crank whip. they also can have a hard time keeping a main seal. the other end has a fairly massive flywheel and the front side has the load from the water pump and alternator. that makes it possible to get a little twist in the crank from one end to the other. the constant loading and unloading of the crankshaft just sort of makes the less controlled end bounce around in the bearing.

i think that the pulley should absolutely be faced, trued, and zero balanced. there's no percentage in doing anything less. keep in mind that you'll only be lightening the pulley and not changing the mechanical advantage by decreasing the diameter.

i tested the beta prototype camshaft pulley that suprf1y makes. it made a profound difference in the way an automatic vert i had ran on the highway. it moved the torque range in a positive way that made the engine feel much stronger. i think i picked up a little fuel mileage. that was on a blind test 6 degree pulley, mike's 10 degree pulley has an even more pronounced effect.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:35 am 
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I dropped mine off at a school and had the A/C pulley cut off. I guess they used a bandsaw and lathe, but I didn't ask. I'm not worried about the balance since it looks like it was turned on a lathe. My engine is an 8-valve 1.3L.
Image

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1994 Metro - MPH project (getting a DOHC G13B)
1994 Metro - MPG project (getting an XFi G10)
1992 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1991 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1990 Swift - Parts car
1997 Metro - Parts car (gone)
1993 Metro - Parts car
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:29 am 
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that looks good and you probably won't ever have a problem with it.

a few of the stock pulleys i've removed have balance drillings on the back side. one of the things that you run into on a stacked pulley is that their height causes some dynamic instability that can be dealt with much in the same way that tires are balanced using weights on the inside and outside of the rim. when you cut down the height you can upset the balance.

the balancing shop i use has taken an interest in my little engines (they usually build v8s for drag cars and racing boats) and squeeze my parts into their production work for same day or next day turn around and they usually don't charge me much. they are all business about rotational dynamics and work for some big players in the dragster world.

when you work with little engines it's the small details that make one stand out from another. my best 3 bangers have used lightened flywheels and aluminum crank pulleys along with all the picky little things that go with hand fitting precision parts.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:51 pm 
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Hey GF, did you install the lightened pulley independant of any other upgrades? I'm curious how much of a difference it makes. Were you able to detect any difference? Does your engine rev quicker?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:08 am 
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CanFire wrote:
Hey GF, did you install the lightened pulley independant of any other upgrades? I'm curious how much of a difference it makes. Were you able to detect any difference? Does your engine rev quicker?

I had it on for a little while, but went back to a stock pulley for the timing marks. Since the car's not registered and has no brakes, I didn't get a good chance to see how it feels. I'll eventually put it back on and find out if it makes a difference, but you'll probably beat me to it.

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1994 Metro - MPH project (getting a DOHC G13B)
1994 Metro - MPG project (getting an XFi G10)
1992 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1991 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1990 Swift - Parts car
1997 Metro - Parts car (gone)
1993 Metro - Parts car
1989 Swift GTi - Parts car
1998 Metro - Parts car


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:58 pm 
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Gasoline Fumes wrote:
I had it on for a little while, but went back to a stock pulley for the timing marks.

Ah, you took off more than me. I cut mine down just past the timing mark. I'm hoping the guy with the lathe might turn down the face of the pulley so that it takes away about half of the steel that the timing mark is cut into.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:23 am 
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I'll have to take a look, but I don't remember having such a wide area like that on my pulley. I wanted it cut down as far as I could. As long as the belt stays on I'm happy. :D

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1994 Metro - MPH project (getting a DOHC G13B)
1994 Metro - MPG project (getting an XFi G10)
1992 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1991 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1990 Swift - Parts car
1997 Metro - Parts car (gone)
1993 Metro - Parts car
1989 Swift GTi - Parts car
1998 Metro - Parts car


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:33 am 
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The steel section used for the timing mark is probably the heaviest piece of the whole pulley assembly! It's thick because it has to carry the torque of the AC but the only reason I can think of for it being so wide is to make it easier to get a timing light down there on cars that have an AC belt to worry about. Since it doesn't need the strength to carry the AC pulley anymore however, that timing mark center section area could probably benefit from having a lot of the steel from it's inside diameter shaved off as well as being made narrower.

This pulley is from a 3 cylinder 1.0L - it would just be cruel if your 1.3L engine originally came with a lighter pulley.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:02 pm 
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the 3 bangers have their cranks loaded more heavily than the 4 bangers anyway. i think that the flywheel is considerably heavier than a stock gt's.

take the weight off both ends and the 3 banger feels like it gains a cylinder. :lol: the throttle response becomes downright snappy with a lightened flywheel.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:08 am 
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I will have to keep an eye out for a GTi flywheel so I have one on hand when it comes time to replace the clutch. Are the flywheels from the g10T the same as the g10?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:39 am 
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I took a look at my two unmodified pulleys and they do have a wide band like that. The one I had cut down was a little different. I don't remember if it had the same wide area, but I do remember it being more suited for lightening than my other pulleys. It had a more obvious step to cut at versus the smooth slope of the others.

A better angle of mine:
Image

I think the GT(i), SOHC 1.3L, and G10T engines all have the same lighter flywheel. At least '89-'94. Just don't let high school students lighten a flywheel. :lol:

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1994 Metro - MPH project (getting a DOHC G13B)
1994 Metro - MPG project (getting an XFi G10)
1992 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1991 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1990 Swift - Parts car
1997 Metro - Parts car (gone)
1993 Metro - Parts car
1989 Swift GTi - Parts car
1998 Metro - Parts car


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:05 pm 
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Gasoline Fumes wrote:
I think the GT(i), SOHC 1.3L, and G10T engines all have the same lighter flywheel. At least '89-'94. Just don't let high school students lighten a flywheel. :lol:


The later 98-up 1.3 16 valve also uses the turbo3/GTI flywheel & it's larger clutch.


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