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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:03 pm 
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Its very easy to install and very easy to blow things up with if your not experienced with it.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:49 pm 
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and one more thing before I leave this topic. I put a 52mm TB in my swift from SuzukiRD.com but I never bored out the in-take manifold with it, so would mean, I wouldn't get the best out of my new TB?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:56 am 
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allmtrswft wrote:
1. Cultus IM .It is PROVEN to up your Power
The "Ice Box" when you put ice on your intake does help.I have never done it,but I do know people who do. People between runs set a Ice bag on their intake.It cools down the intake Temp for awhile.

by just a little bit...i'd rather get BD10's...i am very happy running with them....


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:00 am 
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LeeGTi wrote:
and one more thing before I leave this topic. I put a 52mm TB in my swift from SuzukiRD.com but I never bored out the in-take manifold with it, so would mean, I wouldn't get the best out of my new TB?

THATS YOUR PROBLEM THERE... :) glad that u asked this question...u shld have bored it out....u're now losing power instead of gaining it cos theres turbulence in your intake manifold area....i'm having a SR20 TB (60mm) installed and it makes alot of torque low down compared to the older 45mm stock one...


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 Post subject: Re: no
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:01 am 
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metrojunction wrote:
lol, no you dont need adjustable cam gears to run aftermarket cams, they just help you change the timing without removing the timing belt... just slap in the cams (maybe clean the lifters while your in there) and put the belt on, retime and your done... lol, put ice on your intake manfold, and put a shield between the intake manifold and the engine, that will help keep it cooler

will chroming the intake help? cos my cultus intake when i bought it was chromed.... :?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:38 pm 
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4 banger wrote:
LeeGTi wrote:
and one more thing before I leave this topic. I put a 52mm TB in my swift from SuzukiRD.com but I never bored out the in-take manifold with it, so would mean, I wouldn't get the best out of my new TB?

THATS YOUR PROBLEM THERE... :) glad that u asked this question...u shld have bored it out....u're now losing power instead of gaining it cos theres turbulence in your intake manifold area....i'm having a SR20 TB (60mm) installed and it makes alot of torque low down compared to the older 45mm stock one...

how do I bore it out?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:14 pm 
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get yourself a dremel and a metal cutting bit, draw a circle of 52mm as close to the center as possible on the opening of your intake manifold, and go nuts until you get the proper bore. Make sure you take it off your motor and clean out all the shavings and dust when ur done, you don't want any of that getting in ur motor.

That or take your intake manifold to a machine shop and just tell them to bore the opening to 52mm your better off to bore it to 60mm that way if you ever want to try it your all ready to bolt on.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:56 am 
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that sounds like a bit of a job, shit i should of done it when i changed the tb but i didn't think it would make much of a difference. :cry:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:47 pm 
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Why don't you try the stock tb? I think it was Ricardo who experimented with different size tb and if I'm not mistaken, the stock tb performed the best.

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1991-GTi: JE 75mm 11:1 pistons,Ported head, Single UD pulley (OCC),Sandros chip,Aluminium flywheel,3tech 222/365 cams, Cultus headers,Cultus IM,50mm tb,Crane cams adjustable cam gears,Apex suspension, 4.39fd GB.
1989-GTi: 3Tech 210/340 Cams,Cultus IM, B&G springs, TD04L turbo, Apexi SAFC, Suzukird UD pulley, Circuitse7en dual boost controller, AEM wideband, AEM water / meth injection kit, HKS bov.
2001-Altezza AS200: Stock.-sold
2003-EVO7 GT-A
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:09 pm 
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nah i couldn't put back the stock one after buying the 52mm TB. I'll price it, to get the intake manifold bored out

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:10 pm 
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Is the intake manifold hole to be bored out 52mm exactly like the tb????? :?:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:50 am 
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LeeGTi wrote:
Is the intake manifold hole to be bored out 52mm exactly like the tb????? :?:

yes that is correct....u might want to bore your air flow meter housing as well...how much that i'd have to ask the rest....cos I'm running on a 60MM setup so measurements are different...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:58 am 
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I'd would do a lot of research on the air flow meter, before boring it out. I think i have come acourse a few horror stories about some guys on redline having troubles after boring it out. Now to be positive, lots of guys on redline say that you should bore flow meter on their list of basic mods. Just making sure you be carful.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:54 pm 
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the body of the maf has a precise ratio between the main bore diameter and the sampling hole. nobody has ever really known exactly what the relationship is except that if you enlarge one, you have to enlarge the other.

the way the maf works is that a known voltage/ current is passed through a ni-chrome wire which generates a known range of heat. another wire (which is actually a calibrated thermistor) is heated by the small flow of air across both wires and controls current in the circuit. the power supply to the heated wire is monitored by electronics to sense that expended current. that indicates the mass flow of air molecules through the test hole. then the measured air flow through the test hole is used to resolve the actual air flow through the main bore.

i used the maf body from the same twincam nissan i snagged the throttle body from. the maf body is 58mm in diameter, the throttle body is 60mm. i support the view point that the main bore of the maf added to the area of the sampling hole is a total of 60mm which matches the area of the throttle body. i had to do some very light machining to adapt the electronics package from the suzuki maf to fit the nissan maf housing and change the screw hole spacing to bolt it on.

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using a rotary rasp, i opened up the intake manifold allowing for a very small step at the throttle body to manifold face, maybe a bit less than 1mm larger on the manifold. that gets close to the rear wall of the plenum. when i was in there i blended the slope of the walls in the plenum and deburred the casting in as far as i could reach. i also tried to smooth out the radiuses into the port runners with 80 grit sandpaper. i was surprised at all the points and rough crap on the inside of the plenum. in theory, that should have helped flow but i don't have any objective data to support my assumption that the effort improved anything. it was good therapy, though. :-P i also chased up each port runner from the flange side, too, again with a burr followed by an 80 grit sandpaper point. in theory, the smoother things are, the better the flow.

you pretty much have to do everything by hand. building a jig to use machines to do the job would only be practical if you were going to try to run batches of manifolds. even at that, it'd be hard to get machine tools to fit into the plenum. it'd be nice to machine the bore into the facing flange but again, for a one off, hand working the aluminum isn't too bad (one time. :lol: )

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:39 pm 
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T3, how did that nissan maf housing perform? :shock:

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1991-GTi: JE 75mm 11:1 pistons,Ported head, Single UD pulley (OCC),Sandros chip,Aluminium flywheel,3tech 222/365 cams, Cultus headers,Cultus IM,50mm tb,Crane cams adjustable cam gears,Apex suspension, 4.39fd GB.
1989-GTi: 3Tech 210/340 Cams,Cultus IM, B&G springs, TD04L turbo, Apexi SAFC, Suzukird UD pulley, Circuitse7en dual boost controller, AEM wideband, AEM water / meth injection kit, HKS bov.
2001-Altezza AS200: Stock.-sold
2003-EVO7 GT-A
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:58 pm 
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you must use the tom's chip, piggy back, or stand alone for fueling. don't try to bolt this rig onto a stock engine. you should run this large throttle body with head work, cams, and a modified exhaust (mine is 2 1/4" from a cultus header.)

that combination with vela's switching eeprom is great in the go-fast mode but cold blooded and borderline undriveable in the normal mode. throttle response is twitchy at low speeds but once the revs get past 2500, the engine is a monster. i think the throttle runs a little flat around 4000 rpm and then acceleration is tremendous up to 9000 rpm (with no rev limiter.)

if i had to guess at it, i'd say that the intake air velocity suffers at lower rpms due to the increased diameter of the tube. after the air starts moving, except for the flat spot at 4000 rpm, the engine really likes it.

fuel economy is out the window with a 60mm throttle body. 25 mpg would be good. light mods and the stock throttle body is what i went back to. i can be happy with the engine performance, streetability, and fuel economy of 34 mpg with the stock intake. but, if all you want to do is drag race, the big 6-oh is a killer throttle body.

the maf itself doesn't seem to present any problem. the response curve of the original electronics pack doesn't change and other than the increased air flow, the hot wire anemometer is subjected to a sampled volume which has the proper ratio to the actual volume of intake air. basically, the electronics remain the same and the maf body is engineered for the higher flow with the ratio of sampled air to actual air flow in the proper proportion.

if it weren't for the pinout configuration and resistance values of the hot wire and thermistor being different between the 2 electronic modules, i would have tried to use the complete nissan maf. as it turned out, i only had to machine the housing to locate the hot wire of the suzuki's module in the center of the sampling tube of the nissan maf.

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My YouTube Channel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:08 am 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
you must use the tom's chip, piggy back, or stand alone for fueling. don't try to bolt this rig onto a stock engine. you should run this large throttle body with head work, cams, and a modified exhaust (mine is 2 1/4" from a cultus header.)

that combination with vela's switching eeprom is great in the go-fast mode but cold blooded and borderline undriveable in the normal mode. throttle response is twitchy at low speeds but once the revs get past 2500, the engine is a monster. i think the throttle runs a little flat around 4000 rpm and then acceleration is tremendous up to 9000 rpm (with no rev limiter.)

if i had to guess at it, i'd say that the intake air velocity suffers at lower rpms due to the increased diameter of the tube. after the air starts moving, except for the flat spot at 4000 rpm, the engine really likes it.

fuel economy is out the window with a 60mm throttle body. 25 mpg would be good. light mods and the stock throttle body is what i went back to. i can be happy with the engine performance, streetability, and fuel economy of 34 mpg with the stock intake. but, if all you want to do is drag race, the big 6-oh is a killer throttle body.

the maf itself doesn't seem to present any problem. the response curve of the original electronics pack doesn't change and other than the increased air flow, the hot wire anemometer is subjected to a sampled volume which has the proper ratio to the actual volume of intake air. basically, the electronics remain the same and the maf body is engineered for the higher flow with the ratio of sampled air to actual air flow in the proper proportion.

if it weren't for the pinout configuration and resistance values of the hot wire and thermistor being different between the 2 electronic modules, i would have tried to use the complete nissan maf. as it turned out, i only had to machine the housing to locate the hot wire of the suzuki's module in the center of the sampling tube of the nissan maf.


well its not a MUST to use toms chip....i'm using the rospen chip with the SR20 and i dont seem to have any problems with it :razz: my head is stock(i think) but I'm running on BD10's...have not bolted on my 4-2-1 extractor so currently i'm running on the stock cast extractors...


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:17 am 
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seen as I have the 52mm tb on already and I didn't bore out the intake manifold to it, well what I was thinking of doing is: just taking off the TB for a while and bore out the intake manifold hole to 52mm with the manifold still on the engine because I couldn't be bothered taking the manifold off while doing the job but what i'll do to protect the inside of it is, Is stuff some cloth in the manifold. would that be safe?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:22 pm 
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LeeGTi wrote:
seen as I have the 52mm tb on already and I didn't bore out the intake manifold to it, well what I was thinking of doing is: just taking off the TB for a while and bore out the intake manifold hole to 52mm with the manifold still on the engine because I couldn't be bothered taking the manifold off while doing the job but what i'll do to protect the inside of it is, Is stuff some cloth in the manifold. would that be safe?

for me I'd rather send it to a machine shop and get it done properly....


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:45 pm 
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4 banger wrote:
well its not a MUST to use toms chip....i'm using the rospen chip with the SR20 and i dont seem to have any problems with it :razz: my head is stock(i think) but I'm running on BD10's...have not bolted on my 4-2-1 extractor so currently i'm running on the stock cast extractors...


:lol: my point is that you really need some improved type of fuel management. the stock cast manifold works after a fashion with the larger throttle body, but wait until you bolt up your header and tell us what you think. :D

the 60mm throttle body makes the engine bitchy and less driveable, that's a fact. it goes from being a very responsive throttle, good cold starting, and smooth idle to pretty much wanting the pedal stomped to the floor after it warms up. :twisted:

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:02 am 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
4 banger wrote:
well its not a MUST to use toms chip....i'm using the rospen chip with the SR20 and i dont seem to have any problems with it :razz: my head is stock(i think) but I'm running on BD10's...have not bolted on my 4-2-1 extractor so currently i'm running on the stock cast extractors...


:lol: my point is that you really need some improved type of fuel management. the stock cast manifold works after a fashion with the larger throttle body, but wait until you bolt up your header and tell us what you think. :D

the 60mm throttle body makes the engine bitchy and less driveable, that's a fact. it goes from being a very responsive throttle, good cold starting, and smooth idle to pretty much wanting the pedal stomped to the floor after it warms up. :twisted:


just installed the new header....feels alot better..much lesser vibrations @ high rpms...this is good cos i'm running on solid engine mounts :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:26 am 
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lol, no 4banger, chroming does nothing to help the performance of the car, if your looking to loose some vibration in the upper rpm's then why dont you get some polyurethane motor mounts? headers can be a great improvement to the ride of thease cars, but I think there needs to be a balance between the amout thats coming into the intake, and the ammount thats going out the exaust...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:38 am 
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Would it not be better to bore the IM to larger than the TB size?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:59 pm 
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it really dosent make a diference up to a point... if the tb is the biggest tb your going to put on the im, then it will be fine, you van bore it out more then the tb, but it takes so long to bore it out, and if you go to far, you can actually destroy the im... but that would take a lot of work, basically theres no reason to bore it out farther, but theres nothing that says you cant...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:28 pm 
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metrojunction wrote:
it really dosent make a diference up to a point... if the tb is the biggest tb your going to put on the im, then it will be fine, you van bore it out more then the tb, but it takes so long to bore it out, and if you go to far, you can actually destroy the im... but that would take a lot of work, basically theres no reason to bore it out farther, but theres nothing that says you cant...


what :?: :?:

you bore the intake manifold to the size of the throttle body. blend and taper the rear wall, and smooth out rough castings inside the plenum.

it's all tedious, hand work and you must have the intake manifold off the block to do the job.

it would make absolutely no sense to bolt on a throttle body larger than the opening of the plenum. air flow would be limited to the size of the smaller hole.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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