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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:33 pm 
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yeah it was mostly for fixing up casting errors, but then I got a little crazy with the exhaust. its matched up to the exhaust manifold sizing so theres no turbulence (I would think) so id like to think I got a little something out of it

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:55 pm 
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The mad quebecer
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metromizer wrote:
I just read this whole post, and have to say this... reminds me of porting my very first motorcycle when I was 16yrs old back in 1977. I bought this ancient two-stroke performance mods book at a flea market for 50cents, that got me excited about making some changes. Armed with a dremel, a book, and enthusiasm I dug in.

* I had no clue as to what I was doing.
* People told me everything from 'don't do it' to 'you'll only make it worse'.
* One guy tried to talk me out of it, but after seeing how determined I was, gave me some tips (so I wouldn't screw it up)
* I spent hours match porting, smoothing and blending, even raised the transfer ports 1mm (3-cylinder 2 stroke Kawasaki).
* I started out with the intent of just hogging things out, making it all bigger so it would breath. After reading my book about three times, that drive was tempered a bit, and I got a little conservative.

I also added pipes, jetted the carbs, and did new rings and hone. Man was it fast afterward! I was proud as a peacock.

At the end of the day, I am not sure if my port match job and transfer port raise netted any gains, the pipes, jetting, and new hone might have made the difference I was feeling, but here's the big deal... I got an education! One I could never have purchased, could never have learned in any classroom. I also became a 'doer' meaning I was willing to get away from the television and just go try something. Those lessons have stayed with me and served me well.

Bravo kid! Keep asking questions and wondering 'what if'? The older guys who have been there and tried that have tons of good experience to share, priceless in fact, but many hands on guys (yourself) need to go try it for yourself. BTW, this is one trait that many great inventors and pioneers have.

The next step is to look at your results, with a brutaly honest eye, and evaluate your end result. Fully understand what you've done. Even if your engine went backward in terms of performance, you personally have made a huge leap forward. my 2cents worth


:thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:56 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
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I think I did ok with 10psi making 110whp when I didnt even rev it out.

maybe ill blow it up with 20 some psi and 7000rpms, but who knows, do I really care? not really, its hands on experience and so whats a little money? im sure we have all learned how cheap these cars are. its a hobby.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Location: Florida
87t1 wrote:
Removed mine during a valve job, and saw no economy gains or emission problems.

Leave the passage open as the vacum signal is used for the fuel pressure regulator control signal.


I thought they were part of the EGR system? my car's a 1991 so it doesn't have EGR but the passages and tubes were still there and I just cut them off and smoothed what was left during some mild porting but I don't think they are open any more so if the FPR relies on vacuum from there I'm going to potentially have a problem. Just got the car running yesterday so it's too soon to tell anything yet.

Sorry for the hijack, this is the only mention I've found of the brass tubes.

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:30 pm 
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I will update this thread in a little bit, I took the head porting another step. but the tubes are removed, the exhaust is opened up more and the intake is a little bigger. more combustion chamber work too, just waiting for some parts to put it all together yet

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:40 am 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
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Location: Chester County PA
If you did it right, then you'll notice it immediately. I recently finished my motor and had it all ported except for the exhaust manifold itself. (I did the head and smoothed out the collector from the manifold, (first time around)but not where they bolt up to the block. After doing that....well....WOW...BIG difference!!!! SUPER smooth and very responsive all around. :-)

Jimmy


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:52 pm 
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robertwb70 wrote:
87t1 wrote:
Removed mine during a valve job, and saw no economy gains or emission problems.

Leave the passage open as the vacum signal is used for the fuel pressure regulator control signal.


I thought they were part of the EGR system? my car's a 1991 so it doesn't have EGR but the passages and tubes were still there and I just cut them off and smoothed what was left during some mild porting but I don't think they are open any more so if the FPR relies on vacuum from there I'm going to potentially have a problem. Just got the car running yesterday so it's too soon to tell anything yet.

Sorry for the hijack, this is the only mention I've found of the brass tubes.

the brass tubes are not connected to nothing. Air comes in them from before the throttle plate where there's no vacuum... I'm working on a head right now, and I wonder if I should leave them or remove them... they seem to be useful in creating some kind of swirl effect for the fuel mixture....

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:31 pm 
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ok well maybe ill update, because I think this is somewhat valuable information.

my last configuring wasnt much similar to the new one, it had over 10:1 compression, stock rhb32, the port work shown in this thread, and the ported exhaust manifold. 2.25" exhaust and a front mount (with no airflow for the dyno) and I was able to pull 110whp without fully revving it out. I was using the stock ecu and was a little worried about a full 4th gear pull on a dyno load. most of the fun in this car was 2nd/3rd gear. it had 10psi with a wee bit of creep.

heres the page of the dyno:
http://www.fyredaug.com/lolsprint/part21.html
Image
ignition system was weak and the dyno didnt pick up a consistant reading, thus the weirdness. this was decently fun, definitely a step up from stock, and was quite streetable and torquey.

ive since blown up numerous drivetrain components, so the next build is a little different. a little over 8:1, 20+psi, megasquirt (already done) and currently using a td04 9g, water/meth injection and new port work. even a little work spent on the intake manifold ports, aswell as a large throttle body which matches my 2.5" tubes, so there is no change in sizing anywhere
Image
Image

the new motor is fully balanced aswell as some other mods, but im aiming for 180whp on the "max setting" and 140-150 on a daily. head has been machined about 60thou in total, and now using a suzukijapan gasket and arp studs. brand new bottom end with vitara pistons too.

initially my rev limiter will be set to 8500, dyno results will tell me if I go passed 9. since the valving system is almost identical to whats in the GT motors (lifters/springs) I believe I wont have any valve float issues till I go well into the 9k's.

so 2x+ the boost and 3000+ more rpms demands a little more flow. I did my best, and kept it as equal as possible but do not have a flow bench, combustion chambers were measured though, and within 1/4cc. a fair amount of work was done in there.

heres some new pics, I spend maybe 4 more hours on "phase 2" and actually had to weld up an oil port I ran into, but its all done and heres what she looks like, with stainless valves too.
if my last exhaust port were "stage 2" this is now "stage 4" (numbers for comparison)
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

the intake was previously just port matched and removed a little imperfections, we'll call this "stage 1" because I didnt take it too far, just improved some flow entering the cylinders.
also, maybe youll notice the combustion chambers by the valves are extended about half mm outwards to get a little more flow on that side of the valves, both I/E. using a 226duration 375cam with a stock gear. but I have the feeling power will peak around 6 and start falling off before 8, but who knows. its got a custom 2.25" mandrel downpipe to a 2.5" exhaust to a single dynomax muffler that supports 180-200hp. the stock dp on this td04 was under 2" also.

I dont know how well this turbo will push high boost levels, but when it tires it will be replaced by a 16g or a 13 atleast. its already running meth and pump 94, with water sprayers on the front mount. all boost tubes are (too large) 2.5", through the intercooler, and race days will have a blend of c16 in the tank. start small I know. atleast ill stop popping head gaskets with lower compression.

im pretty impressed with how the head turned out this time around.
Image
Image
:)

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
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Last edited by swift13b on Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:33 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
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Location: Saskatchewan
turbohull wrote:
robertwb70 wrote:
87t1 wrote:
Removed mine during a valve job, and saw no economy gains or emission problems.

Leave the passage open as the vacum signal is used for the fuel pressure regulator control signal.


I thought they were part of the EGR system? my car's a 1991 so it doesn't have EGR but the passages and tubes were still there and I just cut them off and smoothed what was left during some mild porting but I don't think they are open any more so if the FPR relies on vacuum from there I'm going to potentially have a problem. Just got the car running yesterday so it's too soon to tell anything yet.

Sorry for the hijack, this is the only mention I've found of the brass tubes.

the brass tubes are not connected to nothing. Air comes in them from before the throttle plate where there's no vacuum... I'm working on a head right now, and I wonder if I should leave them or remove them... they seem to be useful in creating some kind of swirl effect for the fuel mixture....


do they actually take air from before the throttle body? it appeared it just took the same manifold air and was useless, either way they are in the way, screw em. I think if anything they helped a little low end torque by getting "faster" air by the valves to help with perhaps a swirl or just to make sure all that fuel got sucked in

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:14 pm 
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Location: Saint-Jérôme, Qc
in your case with the modified intake manifold they're now blocked off... unless you take the hose to your charge piping

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:03 pm 
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Sad but True...

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turbohull wrote:
in your case with the modified intake manifold they're now blocked off... unless you take the hose to your charge piping

well there still is the vacuum line that loops from bottom of manifold by runners to the upper part where it would get the air from through the passage. I need to cap off that port closest to the head. just ditch em, really what other cars have you seen them in? not necessary for high power methinks

edit: actually no. look closer in this pic
Image
the line isnt connected, but the rubber hose you see is attached to the bottom part that im talking about by the head, and where it WOULD connect to, goes to the available port obviously shown in the pic. it gets air from BEHIND the tb plate, ie vaccum. pointless

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:47 pm 
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swift13b wrote:
it gets air from BEHIND the tb plate, ie vaccum. pointless

check it carefully. it doesn't go in the plenum at all. it goes to a small hole thru the throttle body right in front of the throttle plate.

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:05 pm 
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I dont know about you or your manifold, but that port that goes into the manifold where the vac hose connects to (said in last post) goes directly into the open in the manifold. I can feel it with my finger and see light through it. it also was not modified in the aluminum plate I put on there. I also dont see any lines or anything inside the stock throttle body (that I still have) that would allow any passage of air through there....

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:39 pm 
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brass tubes... you guys think there's a way to remove them and put them back in? they appear to be pressed in....

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:28 pm 
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turbohull wrote:
brass tubes... you guys think there's a way to remove them and put them back in? they appear to be pressed in....

the way I removed mine was placing a flat head screw driver closest to where it meets with the head (not the part sticking out) and tapping it down so it was bent, then I grabbed some needle nose pliers and pulled back up, then tapped it back down. after 2-3 times metal fatigue came into play and it broke free, only leaving a wee bit left at the joint where it broke. I then grinded it all smooth anyways.

I tried taking them out without "breaking" them, but whatever, they are gone and no shrapnel left to hinder flow.

take em out, you are rev happy like me

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:19 pm 
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rev happy? that dyno shows the motor is done like dinner at 5800rpm. no point in going any higher. rev happy and 3cyls means 8k+ rpms, not 6000.

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:15 am 
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Quote:
since the valving system is almost identical to whats in the GT motors (lifters/springs)

The lifters are, in some cases, the same.
This is the only similarity.

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:28 am 
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hull, I though u haven't dynod it since the cam. also you said you are working on a porter head now too. why not work on stopping the power from falling off?

I was just assuming it's the same. good thing you said that. I do recall you saying that you've revved out some 3cyls passed 8 I think? I would imagine you had done your head work and cam on that configuration. I had my springs checked and were good but I did put brand new lifters in it to keep it as quiet as possible. do you know what these springs will be good for? I don't see mine being interference with this setup anyways. it's just all balanced so I will spin it out. even if it needs a bottle up high

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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:33 pm 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
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Location: Chester County PA
That thing should RIP!!!
Head looks way better than last time....Exhaust ports nice and clean and well as the intake.
Sucks about the botched singh grooves, but oh well.

Keep up the good work. :-)



Jimmy


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 Post subject: Re: head porting
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:45 pm 
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S13b

Put your headgasket on the head, and any of the head that sticks out into the combustion area, round off the edges. It's the same idea as not knife edging ports, it reduces a lot of the turbulence and ability for the gasses to do things you don't want them to do. Also sharp edges tend to stick out when everything is warm, which can cause gas pockets.

Just a little advice, it's stuff I learned on 2 strokes, but had to do something right to take a 21hp@5250rpm single and get 35-40hp@6250(depending on the exhaust) out of it. :lol:

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