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 Post subject: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:28 am 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 414
Location: Chester County PA
Just thought I'd share a cold air intake idea with you folks. Being that the 1.0 air tubing is QUITE lame, I tried experimenting with various intakes. Turns out that the fox body Mustang with MAF (89-93) has an intake hose that will fit PERFECTLY and replace the lame-o factory tubing and have the correct bends to it as well. :-) The ONLY other part needed to make the bend to the side fender is an aftermarket elbow that can be purchased from powerdyne superchargers. ( it's a 90degree elbow that fits snugly into the rubber hose.) ( mine has a 1"hole that was for the BOV, but a piece of duct tape solved that issue) ;-)
These are parts that can be found at just about any boneyard. :-) I had these parts laying around from my Mustang project a while back.
Top end has increased significantly and the car is MUCH smoother between shifts.
EASILY rides 80-85mph (with AC) down the Blue route.
I find I have to drive it alot easier now. No more mashing the pedal to get it to move.

I'll post pics, when I can.
It looks like a factory piece and not GHETTO in ANY way.
The only thing I didn't so was widen the hole in the fender to accomadate the larger diameter elbow. (Still is a NOTICEABLE improvement over stock) Just mounts up over the hole (for now) till I widen it.



Jimmy


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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
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Location: Saskatchewan
wait did I read that right? not ghetto AND duct tape in the same post?

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:53 am 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 414
Location: Chester County PA
MINE is "ghetto" on the elbow only. :mrgreen:

The setup itself is not. ;-)


I was surprised that it fit SO WELL. (and looked good)

Jimmy


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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:01 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
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Location: Saskatchewan
still need pics you clown

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:10 pm 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 414
Location: Chester County PA
Well, here it is. :-)

Jimmy


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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:24 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
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Location: Saskatchewan
are you missing a valve cover nut?


edit: or two? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:01 am 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 414
Location: Chester County PA
It's more of a weight saving trick.
I took out my axle nutz too. Those things weigh at LEAST 4 ounces each. ;-)

I can't go in any direction OTHER than a straight line. BUT...I AM 8 ounces lighter! =)




Jimmy


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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:00 pm
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Location: ALBANY,NY
looks pretty nice bro. like it was made for that car. its crazy what you can interchange sometimes!

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:32 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Sacramento, CA
Is there a part number for that piece that needs to be purchased separately?

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:55 pm 
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Location: Atlanta GA 30052
looks great. makes me wonder if JUST removing stock pipe is an improvement -- just suck engine air?

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:00 pm 
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When i had my SOHC 1.3 swift i tried just removing the hose and as far as i could tell it ran smoother and had more umph in the heigher rpm's.

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:43 pm
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Location: lisboa;Portugal
great job man :clap:

i used a intake form 1.6 sedan , no pipes at all
:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
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Location: columbus, ohio
you guys do realize that the intake manifolds and throttle bodies are purpose designed with coolant chambers that heat them, don't you? going through all the convoluted process of piping cold air to a heated manifold sort of defeats the purpose, don't ya' think?

i do think that improved air flow is a good thing. cold air, not so much.

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:04 pm 
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:werd:

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:31 am 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
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Location: Saskatchewan
what about, say, with a megasquirt, can you ditch the whole coolant assembly to the manifold/throttle body and run a simple high idle solenoid to bring the heat up? im doing alot of things to keep my temps down, and running it over 80C pipes seems detrimental for my case

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:46 am 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 414
Location: Chester County PA
I will "politely" disagree....


ANY gasoline motor, 2 stroke, or 4 stroke will produce optimum power at 60 degrees, and no humidty. (at sea level)

For every degree ABOVE 60, you start to lose power.

The reason that there are coolant lines on the throttle body is mostly for emissions. When the motor is cold, you want warmer air to help brinmg the motor up to full operating temp. Once the motor is a correct temp, the coolant lines actually help cool down the air charge. (before you start ripping me a new one...please hear me out..... The intake and throttle body being DIRECTLY attached to the cylinder gets heat transferred to the intake/throttle body. (not good for performance) with the coolant lines running through it, the air charge shouldn't be more than 180 degrees (or whatever operating temp is).

Now I DO know (for a fact) that removing the coolant lines from the throttle body ( and bypassing them)is a BAD thing for performance. Tried that test MULTIPLE times with my 89 Mustang. I could "get away with" bypassing the tb coolant lines in the winter, but not the summer. I also had a phenolic spacer...(BTW...that in itself...(didn't do squat for performance)
Under hood temps took away ANY theoretical benefit the spacer could have provided. Maybe if I had some lames a$$ mega cowl hood , it MIGHT have been different.

But...back to air charge temps....


So knowing that 60 degree air is "best" for performance...then why would HOT HOT under hood air, be better than outside colder air?

and....Why would cooling down your intake/plenum LOWER 1/4 mile times?

ANYONE who has a 3cyl knows that their motor is way more "snappy" when it's cold out, then when it's 90+ outside. Heck, my mileage drops CONSIDERABLY when it goes above 85 degrees. (and that's without using the AC) =)


I eagerly await a polite rebuttal to my argument. :-)

I ALWAYS stand to be corrected.



Jimmy


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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:17 pm
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Location: Georgetown, Guyana
There is an obsession with cold air intakes that is based on the concept of colder air being denser and more air going in makes more power coming out. I'm not saying that this is incorrect, but I will say it has been hyped out of proportion.

If your car has MPI - multi-point-injection - fine - it probably will work for you.

If, on the other hand, your car has TBI (as these do) or a carburettor (as mine does) then (as t3 ragtop has pointed out) the intake manifolds and throttle bodies are purpose designed with coolant chambers that heat them.

There is a reason for this and perhaps you should try to understand the reason rather than blindly accepting the "cold air is better" hype.

You're spraying a mist of fuel into the air miving through the intake manifold, through three or four runners with ninety degree turns in them - that fuel condenses onto the cold metal of the manifold rather than travelling with the air into the cylinders which is where you want it - the idea behind warming the manifold is to keep the fuel from condensing so that it can be used to produce power.

With the cold manifolds you have to run a richer mixture to ensure adequate fuel reaches the engine - with the warm manifolds you can run leaner mixtures.

Does a heated manifold make enough of a difference to the mixture to have an impact on fuel economy? Well one of the tricks I learned way back was to strap a length of ½' copper tube to the underside of the intake manifold and run coolant through it and then lean out the mixtures by swapping the carburettor jets - I'd say it's good for somewhere betwen 5~10% better economy.

Now - I have a question for the folks running cold air intakes in the colder climates - anyone ever have a problem with the throttle body icing up on them?

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:20 am 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 414
Location: Chester County PA
How can fuel condense on a cold runner? Are you running your motor with a "detached" intake? :huh: =)
The entire intake heats up to the same temp as the motor at full operating temp. So I'm not sure if I'll buy that explanation. ( respectfully, of course) ;-)

Doesn't having a rough intake on a carb'd motor keep the fuel from "sticking" to intake walls?

Smooth runners on a MPFI are better because ONLY air is going thru the runners...Not air/fuel mix



I'm ALSO not claiming any BIG gains, just a slight gain in HP over underhood air. ( on a hot day anyway)


Cold air WILL have more O2, than hot air in any scenario....

I'm just trying to keep what "little" HP my motor already has and not let the heat rob me of it. :-)


Jimmy


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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:02 pm 
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Location: Georgetown, Guyana
jimmyjr wrote:
How can fuel condense on a cold runner?


Same way moisture in the air condenses on a cold beer can.

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:05 pm 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
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Location: Chester County PA
I'll buy that...BUT....How can an intake runner be cold on a running engine? :huh:


Just curious.


Jimmy


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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
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Location: Saskatchewan
so on a MPFI motor, having the coolant lines to the tb are just for emission reasons? ive got charge temps that im certain are over 60*C, even with meth and the intercooler, if I can drop even 5 degrees off the temps entering the engine, to me, it seems worth it. I realize its not as easy as taking them off and plugging them, or routing them together with my current throttle body, but all that aside, im wondering about removing coolant from intake system

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:25 pm 
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swift13b wrote:
so on a MPFI motor, having the coolant lines to the tb are just for emission reasons? ive got charge temps that im certain are over 60*C, even with meth and the intercooler, if I can drop even 5 degrees off the temps entering the engine, to me, it seems worth it. I realize its not as easy as taking them off and plugging them, or routing them together with my current throttle body, but all that aside, im wondering about removing coolant from intake system


I guess you must not have been reading Jimmy's post - he says
Quote:
the coolant lines actually help cool down the air charge

beats me how ;P

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:24 am 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
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Location: Saskatchewan
I doubt its actually cooling my charge at all. Boost temps would be lower than that of a hot engine thats been bagged all day... or do I have it wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:05 am 
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Location: Georgetown, Guyana
swift13b wrote:
I doubt its actually cooling my charge at all. Boost temps would be lower than that of a hot engine thats been bagged all day... or do I have it wrong?


Uhhh - Jimmy? I believe this is meant for you. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: COLD AIR INTAKE idea
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:36 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
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Location: Saskatchewan
yeah, hey im just curious. I actually have no idea what my intake temps are, so teach me!

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