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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:53 am 
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Location: Portland, or
So I had my engine guy look at my car and he said that the valves arnt seating down right because he can hear it because the sound you hear from the intake and the exhaust so I can get my head rebuilt or the whole engine rebuilt because the bottom end might not handle the new top end. What dp you think I should do to my engine?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:06 pm 
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How many miles?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:46 pm 
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Have the mechanic remove the head and replace the exhaust valves with stainless steel ones. Make sure the head gasket is cut correctly. If the engine did not smoke, rattle, or knock, the bottom end might be OK. You can verify this with the head off by pouring a 1/4 cup of gasoline into each cylinder and see if the gas leaks through the rings. If the engine has 150K or more, doing the bottom end is not a bad idea.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:38 am 
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my engine has almost 150000 miles on it so that why I thought it would be a good Idea. But he is also going to bore it .020 over how much displacement would i expect from something like that. He will do the whole engine rebuild and take the engine out and put it back in for 1700 dollars and I'm thinking that it is a good deal am I wrong to have someone that knows what there doing to take out and put in and rebuild .020 over?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:36 am 
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gbabysurfer wrote:
my engine has almost 150000 miles on it so that why I thought it would be a good Idea. But he is also going to bore it .020 over how much displacement would i expect from something like that. He will do the whole engine rebuild and take the engine out and put it back in for 1700 dollars and I'm thinking that it is a good deal am I wrong to have someone that knows what there doing to take out and put in and rebuild .020 over?

You are doing the right thing.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:01 am 
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Cylinder wear is rarely a problem on these engines so boring it oversize will probably be a waste of money and will not noticeably increase power. My recommendation would be to do the head work but do only standard sized rings and rod bearings on the bottom end unless there is an obvious wear problem or damaged to the cylinder walls (unlikely).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:26 pm 
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well the over bore is just for the kit. I got a quote from him about a month ago and he was looking through the catalog and he said that it would have to be bored out. But I wonder if I can get him to just do the rings and the other stuff for cheaper. I might boost this car in the future so I need it to be right.

Also I have a problem with my tranny. I can't up shift super fast without thinking that i'm going to break it because of how much force is needed to shift at the drag race. Also down shifting will always grind going from 4th to 3rd to2nd and to 1st. So I have another parts car but I have no way of knowing if the tranny is better then the one in my car. So what do I do?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:52 pm 
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Doing rings, valves, and rod bearings should be much cheaper since the engine doesn't have to be pulled.

No way to tell what kind of shape the other transmission is in without either putting it in a running car or rebuilding it with all new bearings and syncros.

Q


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:42 pm 
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I don't know if he is going to suggest that but if I did that would I be able to turbo it in the future but for I just want to take it to the track and drag it at 7000 rpms


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:06 pm 
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7000 RPM isn't going to hurt anything.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Q wrote:
Cylinder wear is rarely a problem on these engines so boring it oversize will probably be a waste of money and will not noticeably increase power. My recommendation would be to do the head work but do only standard sized rings and rod bearings on the bottom end unless there is an obvious wear problem or damaged to the cylinder walls (unlikely).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:00 pm 
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Ok so I just got done talking to him about my engine again and the .020 over bore is the same price as leaving it the stock bore so I think I'm just going to bore it over because there is no extra cost and also the I'm prob going to do the full engine rebuild because if I do that it comes with a 3 year 36000 mile warranty on it also all the seals and bearings and oil pump gaskets the whole thing so I will basiclly have a brand new g13b :lol: :lol: :lol:

I will look into the stainless steel valves also because that sounds sweet. But I was thinking why he is building the head anyway I should have him put cultus cams or some kind of better cam in there to get that few hp out of it right?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:47 pm 
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Boring it out is the same price as not boring it :shock: ???? (Alarm bells going off.) I would suggest finding another mechanic who will give you the straight scoop.

Q


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:03 pm 
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Boring it out is the same price as not boring it ???? (Alarm bells going off.) I would suggest finding another mechanic who will give you the straight scoop.


Seconded.

Even if you don't get a funny feeling from what a mechanic is telling you, it never hurts to get a second, third or even fourth opinion. Mechanics are professionals which are among the most well known for bullshitting. If you show up and he gets the impression that you don't know whats up, he very well might decide to just string you along.

As far as i know, he *has* to pull the block to machine it, and if the job costs the same without having to do that then he's either overcharging you for the rebuild, or undercharging you for the overbore... and i've never known a mechanic to undercharge ;)

Go to a few other shops and have them quote you for both the jobs, and get their opinion on the head aswell. Him hearing the exhaust valves not seating properly might be a line too, or he might not be overly familiar with a GT head, which can be "tickier" than most.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Well for one he has worked on a couple of them before which is nice to hear and he know that the top end of these cars have problems with burning valves and he also knew that the bottom ends are pretty strong. Also the price of boreing it out and honing it are different. He has that big ass mechine that you have to take the block out and set it in there and he as that honer that you can leave it in the car and hone it out. Those were two options he said the honing with the block is alittle better then leaving it in the car. The price for leaving it in the car would be 400 cheaper then pulling it. But I would rather have it pulled and have everything replaced on my engine then just a few things. I will look around to see if its cheaper anywhere else but this is the cheapest price I have seen yet. but 1700 isn't a bad price for everything brand new pistons, bearings, seals, gaskets, oil pump, spark plug wires, spark plugs, and rebuilding the head is it?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:50 pm 
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Also this is a pretty well known shop around town. I don't know if he is completly honest with me but he did show me the actual machine that would hone it out if I didn't want it bored and you differntly have to the block out for that one. He seems pretty legit to me.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:58 pm 
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That really is not a bad price for a complete rebuild at a reputable shop if that includes removing the block, hot tank and leak test, cylinder bore, etc. I did a complete rebuild for a guy in 18 hours and you can read about it here........
http://geometroforum.com/topic/1144189/

This was complete head rebuild with all new valves, seals, cam, gear and also the bottom end rebuild including new pistons, rings, hone job, water pump, etc.

18 Hrs at an average shop rate of $60.00 per hour = $1080.00 ---------- Plus $500.00 in parts!

I doubt he will get all that done in 18 hrs if he is doing what he says he is, so actually, he might complain of running into this or that, and try to charge more, so I would make them sign an agreement with a quote and a certain allowable amount over that quote.

BTW, the guy who had me rebuild his car did not pay that rate.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:11 pm 
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You asked for specific advise and you got specific advice from people with first hand experience with these cars. It's your money and your car. Sounds like your mechanic/machinist knows what he's doing. I'm sure it'll run good when you get it back.

Q


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:34 pm 
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I thank all of you for your help on this and I will be looking around for different people and do some research on this because it needs to be right the first time. I was also thinking of buying all the parts my self so its going to be perfect when it's all done. But the problem is my car is running worse and worse everyday. And I don't know the damage that it is doing right now so I don't know what it is going to cost total.

So if you were building a engine what parts would you buy that wouldn't cost that much and would you let a machine shop install them? Also were would I come about all these parts. It's not going to be full race but I really would like to take it to the track and drive it to 7000 rpms and not worry about anything?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:05 pm 
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partsdinosaur.com is a good source for parts. Do not buy pistons or rings until you get the head off and check the cylinders for a rebore if needed (doubtful). You will need..............

Head gasket kit (includes all needed seals and gaskets)
Stainless exhaust valves & head bolts from 3Tech Performance
Timing Belt & tensioner
Water pump (Might as well)
Oil & Filter

Once the head is off, the bottom end can be inspected for repairs whether it's just a rehone and ring job and bearings or whatever. If it does not need bored out, then don't waste your money.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:36 pm 
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how will I know I'm not big on working on my own engines?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:08 pm 
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Yah, allright, sounds like he's probably on the up and up. Nevertheless, i never get any mechanical work done without *atleast* two prices to work from. Simple consumerism on my part. It makes sense that it would be 400 less to just hone it than bore it out. That's your labor on pulling the engine, and machine time right there.

If you do feel confident with the mechanical abilities and honesty of the guy you're dealing with, then tell him to bore out the block if it needs it. Let him inspect the cylinder bores and make the decision himself. Either that, or just have him call you when the head is off, and inspect the cylinder walls yourself. The surface should be smooth to the touch, and visually, you shouldn't see any ridges at the top of the stroke.

suprf1y backed up that post about these engines not needing overboring very often, and if anyone knows, i'd say it's him :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:09 am 
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ok so I just did a compresson test on my car and there is no way that it can be running this bad and have these kind of compresson results.

dry cranked till gauge stopped going up
1. ? (was being stupid and put oil in it before i did the dry test)
2. 230
3. 230
4. 235

wet cranked four strokes each
1. 230
2. 230
3. 230
4. 280 ( I did it three times and this is what I got?)

So I'm really up shi-s creek. I do have a code 51 and I looked it up and have no idea what it means but before I had that I had a code 13 so I replaced the o2 sensor and then I had a code 21 or 22 forgot belive 21 so I did the check on the tps with the workshop manuel and it seemed to check out and now it is throwing me 51? Is this my problem and what should I do next?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:02 am 
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what is it doing that you are thinking you need a rebuild by the way? have you ruled out all the simple stuff?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:05 am 
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because it's running like crap it has a dead miss at idle it's alittle better now that I put the ngk plug wires back on. But it is still missing when cold really bad when I'm driving under 2000rpm.


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