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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:13 am 
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I want to keep my 1.6 NA, so I'm looking into options to make it more powerful without spending too much. Anything DIY is gold for me :mrgreen: So I'll go straight to the point. Gasket matching makes sense, open up the holes as much as possible, but what's the difference from porting, other than going in deeper?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:27 am 
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no one?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:08 pm 
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You do not want to make the ports larger!
"Gasket matching" is really port matching, and with that, all you are looking to do is "fix" the factory misalignment of ports. It is not good to carve the ports wider than stock. The wider the port, the lower the gass velocity.
I will do up a guide tonight if I have the time.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:20 am 
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G-sus wrote:
I want to keep my 1.6 NA, so I'm looking into options to make it more powerful without spending too much. Anything DIY is gold for me :mrgreen: So I'll go straight to the point. Gasket matching makes sense, open up the holes as much as possible, but what's the difference from porting, other than going in deeper?


Porting is all about getting the air to move through the head faster by eliminating sharp corners etc. You could also look into some ovesized valves for the 1.6 if available....now that's a worthwhile mod!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:39 am 
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PBC137 wrote:
G-sus wrote:
I want to keep my 1.6 NA, so I'm looking into options to make it more powerful without spending too much. Anything DIY is gold for me :mrgreen: So I'll go straight to the point. Gasket matching makes sense, open up the holes as much as possible, but what's the difference from porting, other than going in deeper?


Porting is all about getting the air to move through the head faster by eliminating sharp corners etc. You could also look into some ovesized valves for the 1.6 if available....now that's a worthwhile mod!



I think only the inlet valves from the 1.6 are bigger than the 1.3. Exhausts are the same size

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:30 am 
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Haven't had any luck finding oversized valves for the G16, so I'll probably be using the stock ones. Though my head was shaved a few times in it's life and last I recall compression was pretty high. It knocked when using ron 92 fuel, 95 was fine, but the difference from 95 to 98 is only 5 cents, so I'll be using ron 98 on this jdm flying machine :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:03 pm 
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I assume the head is off. I would pull all the valves out, and use a dremel are an air tool with a fluted bit and around the valve seat there is a really bad casting that makes the seat and the head have ridges. making that area of the head and valve seat smooth will help with air flow. also if it is a wet manifold i would use something to mark up the intake runners in the head to improve velocity and fuel air mixture. if it is a dry manifold make it as smooth as you can. I recently rebuild my head and had the machine shop grind the valves and seats. its cheaper if you pull the valves befor you take it in. signh groves is another thing you might try.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:36 pm 
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DeTune wrote:


I think only the inlet valves from the 1.6 are bigger than the 1.3. Exhausts are the same size


1.3/1.6 16V SOHC valve sizes are the same.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:21 am 
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I thought valves were bigger if we are talking 8 valve engines.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:00 am 
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sledgehammer wrote:
I thought valves were bigger if we are talking 8 valve engines.


Maybe, but we're talking about 16v

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:04 am 
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Quote:
Valve sizes ---------------------------
G13/16-a/b/bb SOHC 16v all same
G16 16v
inlet = 30.1mm X 5.5 X 92.3 1R
G13b 16v
inlet = 29.1mm X 5.5 X 92.3 1R Smaller!!!!
exhaust = 24.9mm (all 16v sohc or dohc)


Taken from here - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27523

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:43 am 
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There's so much nonsense, and misinformation in that thread, I should probably delete it.
It actually says they're the same size, then different in the same post.

Trust me, I've built a pile of those heads. They're the same.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:27 am 
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_Scratch_ wrote:
You do not want to make the ports larger!
"Gasket matching" is really port matching, and with that, all you are looking to do is "fix" the factory misalignment of ports. It is not good to carve the ports wider than stock. The wider the port, the lower the gass velocity.
I will do up a guide tonight if I have the time.


Let's continue this line of thinking...I like it!

So the wider the port, the lower the gas velocity, all other things being equal. So the same volume of air slows down a bit to get to the combustion chamber and with no change to valve timing, you will have a relatively richer mixture. Is that right so far?

But what about if you introduce a larger throttle body and different cams into the picture? Btw, I'm going way beyond what the OP probably wanted to discuss but I dislike self-ignorance. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:06 am 
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Why do you equate charge velocity with air/fuel ratio?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:27 pm 
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A little info for those looking into porting and or port matching...

Port matching is a term used by many to describe the process of properly aligning separate component's ports to ensure maximum flow potential. 
The biggest challenge  associated with port matching is in not changing the cross sectional area of the ports, so as to maintain gas velocity. Increasing the cross sectional area will create a point of turbulence within the port, ultimately impeding flow efficiency.
High performance race engine builders will often "build up" the material within ports to ensure smooth transfer. This can be done by welding or with use of high strength epoxy.
Many do not go to the extreme of building up ports, but for those who want to squeeze every last bit out of their engine, it's worth looking into.
It is often difficult to gauge how far out of alignment some ports are, so it is necessary to find a means of visual representation. I personally use thick spongy  gasket material as an indicator. First, I cut multiple strips of gasket material the width and length of the flange, then punch out holes for the flange fasteners. I then mount the flange to the head with the crude gasket in-between and tighten all fasteners until the gasket has fully compressed. I then loosen the flange and remove it and the gasket. As a result of the pressure, the gasket will be embossed with the layout of the ports. The crushed areas being points of direct contact, and the raised areas having little to no contact. You can then reference this to both the head and the flange to find overhanging material and or short comings. With this you can then remove/build-up material with a high speed rotary tool to smoothen the transfer. -it is necessary to perform this procedure several times to ensure proper alignment.  

Porting refers to the process of modifying a port for the purpose of increasing flow. This generally involves removing casting defects, matching the valve seats to the bowls, filling low spots, polishing the the diameter of the port and even completely reshaping the port.
The machine work is generally all done using small high speed rotary tools with abrasive bits. The filling can be done by either welding or use of high strength epoxy. Use of high strength epoxy is not recommended when filling or reshaping exhaust ports. Again, do not change the cross sectional area of the ports unless you know what you are doing.

All of the above work is very beneficial to the efficiency of an engine when done correctly. However, if you have no experience with rotary tools or machine work in general, I would advise you leave the work to a professional, or someone who dose have adequate  experience. It is easy to screw up in a big way... -and it isn't exactly fun if you do so. It defeats the purpose when your not having fun with a project, so take your time and enjoy the process. After all, Life's too short to drive a slow car!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:46 pm 
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suprf1y wrote:
Why do you equate charge velocity with air/fuel ratio?


Charge velocity meaning the speed at which the air enters the head right? So if the air is slower to get into the head, wouldn't that mean fractionally less air into the combustion chamber per cycle as the intake valve closes. Less air into the combustion chamber with a given amount of fuel (metered for the air entering the manifold and not the head) results in a mixture that contains more parts of fuel to parts of air in the combustion chamber....or so I thought. :huh:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:37 pm 
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The fuel ratio is adjusted continually by the ECM to compensate for flow issues, air density and pressure.
Gas velocity is crucial as the charge running through the ports has mass. As a result, it also builds inertia which helps fill the cylinders during the intake cycle. This is why you want to maintain velocity in a port.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:53 am 
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Cool, point taken and to argue it any further would be trite. On the mention of air density, do you see any advantage of using water/alcohol injection for our engines in n/a trim but say revving to 8500rpm and with compression ratios of 11.5:1 or higher?

I did the whole water/alco injection on my alltrac, with really great gains and an extended powerband, but that's a turbocharged monster of an engine (3sgte).

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:46 am 
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I'm building a water/alcohol injection system for my GTi. With 12-1 compression, I can't run as much timing as I want, and still have to run 94 octane, which can be a bitch to get locally now. With the water injection, I should be able to run more timing with less octane. Anybody who has driven one of these cars in cool weather knows that they respond to cold air like nothing else, so it makes sense that cooling the charge will make more power. Problem is, you're putting water in there, and that might cancel out the gain. I think there's potential, but my buddies think I'm nuts. Time will tell.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:34 am 
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suprf1y wrote:
I'm building a water/alcohol injection system for my GTi. With 12-1 compression, I can't run as much timing as I want, and still have to run 94 octane, which can be a bitch to get locally now. With the water injection, I should be able to run more timing with less octane. Anybody who has driven one of these cars in cool weather knows that they respond to cold air like nothing else, so it makes sense that cooling the charge will make more power. Problem is, you're putting water in there, and that might cancel out the gain. I think there's potential, but my buddies think I'm nuts. Time will tell.


A precise amount of water will do wonders, in some cases they use water injection instead of an intercooler on a turbo setup. As the fuel burns, the water evaporates effectively cooling the mixture and because it evaporates, it also increases the compression. I do believe it's only used under load though.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Correct. Its activated under positive pressure. On a n/a engine, I'm guessing that maybe some rpm trigger can be configured to switch on the solenoid under heavy load (say over 6k rpm perhaps).

Another good property of injecting water in mist form is that it cleans the combustion chamber from carbon deposits on the valves, pistons etc.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:08 pm 
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You use a vacuum switch to activate it.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:50 am 
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This is a GREAT! book to get as this guy knows from experience what does and does not work.
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To add to what scratch said, with port matching its also good idea to put dowels when port matching is done because bolts and studs alone have in enough movement to offset port matching when a manifold is removed and refitted.

Water/Meth injection can be used for N/A with gains.. Its used differently in which a different mixture is used to increase octane some what to help with the high compression, and it mainly does its work in the combustion chamber meanwhile turbo charging primarily uses it to cool the air/fuel mixture before it enters the combustion chamber.. It also steam cleans the engine when the water in the mixture turns into vapor. Please also remember meth is corrosive.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:01 am 
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I've seen people use just water injection, no meth or alcohol

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:45 am 
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suprf1y wrote:
You use a vacuum switch to activate it.


Yes for a boosted engine but I was wondering for a naturally aspirated engine what would switch the solenoid on/off.

DeTune, from what you are saying would the water injection system set up for a naturally aspirated engine be spraying continuously while the engine is on?

Btw, Graham Bell is excellent. I have that one as well as "Forced Induction Performance Tuning" and "Two Stroke Performance Tuning".

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