TeamSwift
http://www.teamswift.net/

Adjustable throttle-body?
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=55283
Page 1 of 1

Author:  elbola [ Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Adjustable throttle-body?

I have been thinking about this for quite some time actually. I did a little research and all I could find was an adjustable muffler, but the principle is the same.

Attachment:
22-01-25_3.jpg
22-01-25_3.jpg [ 44.92 KIB | Viewed 7106 times ]
Attachment:
22-01-25_2.jpg
22-01-25_2.jpg [ 37.28 KIB | Viewed 7106 times ]


Maybe if we could fabricate something similar, allowing us to basically adjust airflow in the intake-pipe, we should theoretically have an adjustable throttle-body size. I think this may be the solution for the flat spots in the rpm-band when going over 50mm butterflies. What do you guys think?

Author:  elbola [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

haha really... nobody? I thought this was gonna be cool :p

Author:  aqqus [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

Its already been invented. It's avalaible at any salvage yard you can find. Basicly you would be stacking another throttle body in the system. If you don't want the flat spots in the rpm band you need to better balance your system.

Author:  elbola [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

I know 2 throttle bodies are needed. What I was suggesting is using the adjusting method in that exhaust or something similar. Otherwise how are you going to open/close the butterfly?

Author:  Rhinoman [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

I've thought about this in the past, I would use two throttle bodies and connect them using a progressive linkage like the one used on the old Honda XL600R RFVC engines.

Author:  elbola [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

I was thinking actually about using a bicycle speed shifter somewhere near the e-brake. So I can "dial-in" the throttle-position I want.

Attachment:
$T2eC16h,!)cE9s4PvnmQBQhvR2rIqw~~60_3.JPG
$T2eC16h,!)cE9s4PvnmQBQhvR2rIqw~~60_3.JPG [ 19.68 KIB | Viewed 7068 times ]

Author:  DeTune [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

Buy a proper standalone ems and tuner....Your flat spots will disappear :!:

Author:  elbola [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

DeTune wrote:
Buy a proper standalone ems and tuner....Your flat spots will disappear :!:

So you are suggesting that for such a small mod as using a bigger throttle-body, I should install a Standalone ECM? I think that would be the most expensive TB-upgrade ever :mrgreen:
Use your imagination, that's what this thread is about.

Author:  elbola [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

I was thinking about those flat-spots though. Some people say it's because of the readings from the MAF, TPS, etc falling out of the ECM's tables, but if that's the case than shouldn't the engine run like crap at upper rpm's due to the "excess" of air-flow induced by the bigger throttle-body :huh: I personally think those flat spots are more related to air-flow vs throttle-body size, which causes poor flow at lower rpm's if the TB is too big. There's no way to know this though, unless the ECM and sensors are live-monitored. Maybe with Rhinoman's software?

Author:  elbola [ Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

I'll go hunting for parts these weekend :) Hope I can find some throttle-bodies at the junk-yard.

Author:  instant_shine [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

I was using altezza tb (55mm) on my project. Changed back to an overbored stock tb (50mm). Muuuuuuch better.

Author:  elbola [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

Could find anything useful at the yard :cry:

instant_shine wrote:
I was using altezza tb (55mm) on my project. Changed back to an overbored stock tb (50mm). Muuuuuuch better.

What do you mean is much better, driving in traffic or "racing"?

Author:  elbola [ Sat May 25, 2013 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

Finally got a Nissan throttle body... 65mm inlet 60mm outlet. I'll be using the Nissan TPS, but I'll make an idle switch first. I'm still thinking about how to do it properly, as this TB doesn't have an idle-screw; so the idle-speed is adjusted with the lever stop-screw.
Anyway this Nissan TB has two throttle wheels :huh: Did anyone here ever used this kind of TB when doing this kind of modification? I wonder why 2 throttle wheels (one smaller than the other)...

Attachments:
IMG-20130525-00068.jpg
IMG-20130525-00068.jpg [ 386.58 KIB | Viewed 6803 times ]

Author:  1987TurboSprint [ Sat May 25, 2013 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

Cruise control

Author:  elbola [ Sun May 26, 2013 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

1987TurboSprint wrote:
Cruise control

Thanks for the reply. I never had a car with cruise control before, so this is new to me.

Author:  elbola [ Sun May 26, 2013 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

update: Found what I was looking for... it has been done before http://www.carid.com/2010-ford-f-150-ai ... 67735.html. Maybe this will clarify better what I'm trying to achive. Now let's make a home-made version of that $500+ kit :P

Author:  geopat [ Sun May 26, 2013 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

jankoelbola wrote:
update: Found what I was looking for... it has been done before http://www.carid.com/2010-ford-f-150-ai ... 67735.html. Maybe this will clarify better what I'm trying to achive. Now let's make a home-made version of that $500+ kit :P


still be better off with a standalone and just ditch the MAF all together.

Author:  elbola [ Mon May 27, 2013 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

geopat wrote:
jankoelbola wrote:
update: Found what I was looking for... it has been done before http://www.carid.com/2010-ford-f-150-ai ... 67735.html. Maybe this will clarify better what I'm trying to achive. Now let's make a home-made version of that $500+ kit :P


still be better off with a standalone and just ditch the MAF all together.

The problem with big throttle bodies is the reduced air flow in the low/mid rpm's. That loss of power is not related to fuel or ignition. A stand-alone computer can make things smoother, but it can't compensate for the lack of air-flow. That's what a variable intake-system would do, which is what's being discussed in this thread :wink: .

Author:  Peenutzz [ Thu May 30, 2013 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

A lot of motorcycles have a system like that too, I would like to see how it turns out :)

Author:  elbola [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

I finally installed the TB! It was a pain in the butt, as countless modifications had to be made in order to make it work. The TB is from a '91 240sx (KA24DE engine) and although it has the same bolt-pattern as the one from the SR20, I don't think it's same one... or people have been lying all the time about how easy it is to fit it to a Gti.
My carbide bits couldn't take the manifolds material for some reason, so I had to do file down the intake by hand :shock: . As I didn't had the time or the energy I could only get it to 55mm, but I'll continue with this process later to get it to 60mm so a nice air-flow can be achieved.

The GTi's TPS can NOT be used with this TB, because of it's shape. So I used the Nissan one. That was the intention anyway, as it is really cheap compared to the Suzuki one. The butterfly-shaft from this TB doesn't have a lever at the end, it goes IN the TPS... see that hole in the middle?
Attachment:
File comment: Nissan TPS
getimage.jpg
getimage.jpg [ 8.04 KIB | Viewed 6724 times ]


I set the TPS to 0.3V at idle and it works great, although I had to file down the edges of the manifold in order to let it turn. There are no flat-spots in the rpm-range and the ECU is not throwing any codes.

For the throttle wheel I used the smaller one (the one used for cruise-control), as the bigger one hit the fuel rail-lines and the Gti-one doesn't fit. I had to modify the throttle cable-bracket, other wise the cable would have been too short.

The coolant lines were connected with no mayor issues.

As this TB doesn't have an idle-screw, I had to bypass the butterfly so I could accurately adjust idle-speed. I didn't used the throttle lever stop-screw to adjust, as it was modified to simulate the idle-switch (the Nissan TPS is a 3-wire type). So I bored the TB after the butterfly...
Attachment:
IMG-20130530-00073.jpg
IMG-20130530-00073.jpg [ 543.54 KIB | Viewed 6724 times ]

and plugged a hose from there to a T-fitting in the stock air-lines.

Tomorrow I'll have pics of how it all looks like... count the catch can in and that's a lot of hoses :P .

Performance wise: There was definitely an improvement in the top-end with no real loss in the low/mid-range, however the car is kind of sensitive in traffic. Maybe that can be solved by using a bigger throttle-wheel or even an eccentric one. I'll work on that first, before enlarging the intake completely to 60mm.

Author:  elbola [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

I'm getting really addicted to high revs with this engine 8) . Pics as promised...

Attachments:
IMG-20130602-00084.jpg
IMG-20130602-00084.jpg [ 680.06 KIB | Viewed 6710 times ]
IMG-20130602-00089.jpg
IMG-20130602-00089.jpg [ 590.03 KIB | Viewed 6710 times ]
IMG-20130602-00090.jpg
IMG-20130602-00090.jpg [ 463.02 KIB | Viewed 6710 times ]

Author:  elbola [ Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Adjustable throttle-body?

So I managed to get the car to 190km/h today. It might not seem like much for you guys, but we have no long and "safe" roads...forget about a highway, so I'm actually pretty happy with this result, while all I have is a bigger TB and a 2"-exhaust.

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/