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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:17 am 
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Hey guys. Im not really into 12s and amps and all that jazz, i just like something that will play my music and suit my style. I listen to hardcore metal and things of that sort, so huge bass isnt really gonna sound good with that style of music IMO. I was just running a JVC MP3 player deck and a pair of 4.5" sony xplod 2 ways up front. Now, as pretty much all of you know right off the bat, its not an impressive system, lol. But it gets the job done. Now, that suits my P.O.S. mk4 metro just fine, but im getting my swift GT on the road soon, and i need something that will look good and actually sound good to. No amps, no 12" subs or anything, but somethign a little better. Maybe 6 or 8 speakers. Now, The car has 4 infinity speakers in it, i think they are 4 or 5". Look like 2 ways. Anyways, what im looking into is adding a pair of JVC 6X9s

http://www.jvc.ca/en/consumer/product-d ... =CS-HX6945

I think these look sweet. What i plan to do is set them up in the cargo tray. You know? I have a spare cargo tray, i wanna cut a hole in either side of it, and hang the speakers in there. That way, when you open the hatch, you see the back of the speaker as well. Also, i was gonna see if i could slip in a 4 or 5" in along with the 6X9s just for exta show. What do you guys think?

Questions:

Okay, so now you know what i plan to do, and i wanna know, to anyone thats put speakers in the cargo tray before, is it sturdy enough to hold those speakers in there? I mean, i would probably fab up a metal or wooden ring so that i could have something on the other side to thread the screws into to hold them tight so they dont vibrate loose. But will they handle that weight? Also, There are little spaces beside the cargo tray on either side that look like its for speakers, I dont want to put speakers in there, just wanna know are there wires in there somewhere? If not, whats hte easiest way to get wires back there. I kinda wanna keep the left, right, back, front thing going so i can screw around with the fade with my head unit if i want to. Anyways, any help would be appreciated. Also, will it sound alright without an amp? Those speakers are 4 way if im not mistaken, thats no problem, right? Are they harder to wire up? It is a brand new JVC deck that i have, if that matters.

thanks in advance
Greg

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:46 am 
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I'll recomend a system that you more or less probably won't want to do but will sound a million times better than what your describing OK :P?

Put a 6.5" component set in the doors. Requires some fabrication. Sound deaden the doors well. they don't need to be weighed down to 100lbs each but just get the major resonances out.

If you must have sound coming from the rear do a 6.5" coaxial speaker. Two way is ample as 99% of the 3 way and 4 way speakers sizzle the highs.

Get an 8" Bazooka tube. Not the Canadian tire job. A real Bazooka. It won't take much to get in there and will round out the bottom end so well that you'll fall in love with the sound.


To answer your other questions:

The panel will have to be made stronger.

Wiring is the same as any other speaker.

To my knowledge there is no speaker wires in the rear locations your mentioning...if there was I'd recommend running new wire anyways.

If you mount the 6x9's in the back in the way that your describing do as much as you can to seal off the area behind the speaker. Any holes that lets air pas will make you lose bass output and smear the imaging.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:49 am 
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I would stick with 2way speakers. There is no need for anything more than a woofer/tweeter in a car. It will just worsen the sound.
I'm also not a fan of using the cargo tray, but I think if you give it a bit of reinforcement from behind, like plywood, etc., you might be able to make it work alright.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:55 am 
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Put a 6.5" component set in the doors.

Or build your own component set.
If anyone took my advice and picked up a set of those 6 1/2's off ebay a while back, they got drivers 10 times better than most car stuff, for $30/set.
I liked them so much, I just bought out his complete inventory.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:08 pm 
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really? Okay, you guys are really helpful. M, you are right. theres no way im gonna do all that you mentioned. I dont have the funds or the desire. I will however scrap the idea of 4 ways and go with 2 ways because i definitly dont want any sizzling for sure. Um...im kinda dead set on doing the speakers in the cargo tray because i think it will look awesome, thats really the only reason though. As for the infinity speakers i mentioned, it appears that 2 out of the 4 are severly cracked, and the front drivers side one actually has a huge gaping hole in the cone for some reason. So those need to be replaced. any recomendations for speakers that will fit the stock locations? As for door speakers, thats a no. I dont want to be cutting into my mint interior. As far as sound deadening the doors, is that really necessary if you dont put any speakers in the doors? I dont want to do it anyways...I dont drive around with my music blasted anyways. I like to be able to hear my car, and sirens and other things from outside like that. Is there any reason to choose a round speaker over an oval or vice versa? Whats a bazooka tube? would i need an amp for that? and are they pricey? also, what do you mean it wont take much to get in there? where would you put it? I still would like to have a little trunk space. and for sealing the back of the speaker....the hole point of placing the speakers in the tray is to be able to see the back of them when you open the hatch up and the tray lifts with it....i really appreciate and value your guys opinions because you obviously know more about this than i do, i just am sorta set on making things work with that tray idea in mind. So keep them coming, you've already changed how i was gonna do things and im expecting more changes based on your reply. thanks

edit: also, what does "component" speaker mean? I mean, ive seen pictures and they come all in peices it seems....are they hard to set up? Like the sub and the tweeter is split up, and theres some other part that comes with...whats that?

also, what brand of speaker would you recomned for someone in my shoes? These seem like something for me, but again, i dont really have a good knowledge about this hole thing. I do want something that isnt too plain looking, so a good compromise between style and sound i guess...

http://www.kenwood.ca/kwhtmlen/ProductI ... =KFC-1669s

what do you think?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:35 pm 
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suprf1y wrote:
Or build your own component set.
If anyone took my advice and picked up a set of those 6 1/2's off ebay a while back, they got drivers 10 times better than most car stuff, for $30/set.
I liked them so much, I just bought out his complete inventory.


I'm all for building your own component sets but after you factor in custom crossoves to match them (if you don't then whats the point right?) most people won't be bothered with the trouble. It is definetly a better way to do it though.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:39 pm 
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RotaryGreg wrote:
edit: also, what does "component" speaker mean? I mean, ive seen pictures and they come all in peices it seems....are they hard to set up? Like the sub and the tweeter is split up, and theres some other part that comes with...whats that?



That's what they are. A midbass unit, tweeter, and crossover. It's easy to set up (albeit a few more pieces) in the car though. The crossover sends only lower midbass frequencies to the midbass unit and onbly high frequencies to the tweeters. They sound much better and give you more control over placement of the tweeter/midbass unit which is detrimental to the sound. You can do it with a coax speaker...but you have beter sound potential with components.

For the bazzoka tube see here:

http://www.sasbazooka.com/productAutoAmplifiedBTsBT.asp

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:48 pm 
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m wrote:
RotaryGreg wrote:
edit: also, what does "component" speaker mean? I mean, ive seen pictures and they come all in peices it seems....are they hard to set up? Like the sub and the tweeter is split up, and theres some other part that comes with...whats that?



That's what they are. A midbass unit, tweeter, and crossover. It's easy to set up (albeit a few more pieces) in the car though. The crossover sends only lower midbass frequencies to the midbass unit and onbly high frequencies to the tweeters. They sound much better and give you more control over placement of the tweeter/midbass unit which is detrimental to the sound. You can do it with a coax speaker...but you have beter sound potential with components.

For the bazzoka tube see here:

http://www.sasbazooka.com/productAutoAmplifiedBTsBT.asp


Okay, are the component speakers hard to hook up though for a first time DIY? Im also an apprenctice, so i do have electrical experienc as well. I'll probably just go with a 2 way in the end, but im curious. Will a 2 way sort it out though on its own? i mean, will it split the high freq and low freq apart or will the midbass try to play both and the tweater try to play both? Also, as for the bazooka, i cant afford that...so maybe later, but is that easy to hook up? Would you just run any random output wire from the head unit into it and then it'll sort itself out or what? Thanks again for your advice. Its very helpful

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:48 pm 
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Component speakers aren't as difficult to set up as they look :wink:

You get two crossovers with 3 connections; input (+ and - from the stereo), midwoofer and tweeter.

It's a couple of extra wires to install, but well worth the effort!

With a 6,5" component set in front and a pair of 6,5" 2way coaxials in the back, you'll probably have all the sound you need.
(the 2way coax's tend to sound better than the 3/4/5-way coax's and 6x9's)

...From there on you could always add a basstube or something else.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 6:21 pm 
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Quote:
Put a 6.5" component set in the doors.

Or build your own component set.
If anyone took my advice and picked up a set of those 6 1/2's off ebay a while back, they got drivers 10 times better than most car stuff, for $30/set.
I liked them so much, I just bought out his complete inventory.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 6:27 pm 
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suprf1y wrote:
Quote:
Put a 6.5" component set in the doors.

Or build your own component set.
If anyone took my advice and picked up a set of those 6 1/2's off ebay a while back, they got drivers 10 times better than most car stuff, for $30/set.
I liked them so much, I just bought out his complete inventory.


holy double post batman, lol.

I was looking around on the internet and i saw some blaupunkt(spl??) 6.5 2 ways that are see through. They look crazy. If they are any good, thats the sort of speaker im looking for, something that stands out and looks different. I hope i can still get them....but whatever, ill go tomorrow and see what i they have at autosonics. Have you guys ever seen those see through ones im talking about?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 6:41 pm 
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holy double post batman, lol.

I don't know how that happened. I wasn't even on when that was posted. :?:
Quote:
I'm all for building your own component sets but after you factor in custom crossoves to match them (if you don't then whats the point right?) most people won't be bothered with the trouble. It is definetly a better way to do it though.

I guess you're right. I've been doing it so long that I take for granted that everybody knows how to put together a crossover. At least it would be a simple one. None of the head units, and no car amp I've seen will play into a capacitive load required on anything greater than a first order crossover.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 7:06 pm 
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I bought a pile of these Infinity speakers off ebay. The Canadian wholesalers must have a shitload of them, and the price is right.
The 6X8's sell for peanuts(odball size), and you will be quite happy with them. Even the 6.5's are a steal, and the 4" will be perfect for your dash.
You should be able to get them for about $25-$30/pr.

http://search.ebay.ca/search/search.dll ... Show+Items

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 7:19 pm 
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suprf1y wrote:
I bought a pile of these Infinity speakers off ebay. The Canadian wholesalers must have a shitload of them, and the price is right.
The 6X8's sell for peanuts(odball size), and you will be quite happy with them. Even the 6.5's are a steal, and the 4" will be perfect for your dash.
You should be able to get them for about $25-$30/pr.

http://search.ebay.ca/search/search.dll ... Show+Items


ah, awesome man...but i dont do ebay....I hate it...i actually dont do anything with credit cards or mail either. I worry to much for that. lol

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:16 pm 
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RotaryGreg wrote:


or i can give you one of these for more than half the price

http://www.dsdimages.com/Images/03/Medium/CRUNCH-NOXXTUBE.jpg


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:22 pm 
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megabanton wrote:
RotaryGreg wrote:


or i can give you one of these for more than half the price

http://www.dsdimages.com/Images/03/Medium/CRUNCH-NOXXTUBE.jpg


No thanks...i dont really like the look of those. but thanks anyways.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:46 am 
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suprf1y wrote:
None of the head units, and no car amp I've seen will play into a capacitive load required on anything greater than a first order crossover.



I've seen head units play into 2nd order just fine and amps will no doubt play into just about anything. lectronicaly they are pretty much the same as a home amp and they do fine with the capacitance load presented. Of course most home audio speakers don't need to go higher than 1st order anyways to sound good :P. I would imagine though that with 3 and 4 way crossovers the load would be higher than with a simple 2way setup. Correct me if I'm wrong..I haven't played with passives for a long time. Of course all but the cheapest amplifiers these days have electronic crossovers on board (even most headunits nowadays) and for a car making a passive 3rd or 4th order, as you said, just isn't feasable.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:21 am 
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I've tried it a bunch of times, and never been able to get a crossover with a cap shunted across the +/- to play with a car head unit/amp, not to mention any kind of zobel circuit.
Most car speakers don't even use a crossover on the woofer, and typically a 6db on the tweeter. Any ones I tied to modify have caused me all kinds of problems.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:25 pm 
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Well...i couldnt find those see through blaupunkt's...so its back to the drawing board as to what 6.5s im gonna be getting....Oh well. Any you guys suggest? Just 2 Way 6.5s that look good and sound good as well? Im kinda looking for somethign with somewhat of a stylized basket, but not overdone with chrome flames or any crap like that, ya know?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:07 pm 
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You likely won't find a styliized basket on a 6.5 because they don't get mounted inverted...do you mean the grill by any chance? What's your budget for speakers?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:50 am 
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i'm running 12db/ octave passive crossovers on the 4 component 4" speakers in my white vert straight off my sony head unit without any issues. they aren't particularly loud. i usually run my volume at about 85% with the top down on the highway just to get a moderate listening level but i haven't had any problems with the head unit's amps overheating, cutting out, etc.

as far as bling on smaller speakers, i've had 6 1/2" nakamichi components and some hart coaxials that had chrome plated baskets, bumped and vented magnet assemblies, and fancy, molded magnet protectors. no flames and stuff but still very nice looking from the rear.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:35 pm 
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m wrote:
You likely won't find a styliized basket on a 6.5 because they don't get mounted inverted...do you mean the grill by any chance? What's your budget for speakers?


No, i do mean the basket because im hanging them from the cargo tray so you will be able to see both sides. I dont really care about the grill as much. I'd prefer not to spend over 150 canadian on a pair of 6.5 2 ways...but if the right style comes along i might.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:48 am 
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OK I see what you mean. I was thinking you would be mounting them in the doors and, thus, wouldn't be seeing the baskets. Can't say I know of too many with the stylized baskets though. I all honesty I wouldn't worry about it (even though you like the looks) since every dime spent on the speaker's looks is a dime not spent on it's performace :P.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:15 am 
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No offence, guy, but you've pretty much shot down every bit of advice you've been given, all of it good.
Forget about the looks, worry about the sound.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:55 am 
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I havent shot down everything. I have taken m's advice and decided to get 2 ways, I would do a bazooka tube if i had the money, so i didnt really shoot that down. As for money going towards looks or performance...thats the reason why im posting here, i want something in between. I want somethign that looks nice and stylized, but not overdone, but will sound good too. I dont need or want a stereo thats so loud i shakes my car apart. I just want something to sound nice at an acceptable volume. I dont want to put in 10" subs or any crap like that...its just not for me...

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