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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:36 pm 
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You say that you want something that sounds half decent, but I can assure you that when you put the speakers in the rear tray without any enclosure behind them, you will not be happy with the sound. If you are not planning on enclosing the speakers, you are better off to get a pair of cheap speakers from CTC. Buying entry to mid level speakers of a decent brand such as alpine or clarion would be a waste.
Check out my gallery:
http://www.teamswift.net/album_personal ... er_id=4932
The first two pictures is what I have in my car (it is unfinished at this point, amps are not placed) but it may give you some ideas. It took me and a friend about 2 days, but with lots of coffee breaks :D I already had MDF kicking around, you would only need a 4x4 sheet ($20). This setup still leaves me enough room in the back for 2 cases of beer. You would have to ditch your trunk cover though.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:39 pm 
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Thanks for the advice...i dont know though. That doesnt really look good to me. Im gonna take a breather from this project to be and think about it for a bit...maybe do a little shoping around and such when i get some free time...but you guys have pointed out too many flaws for this to work well...I dont like the look of enclosures, but i dont want it to sizzle and vibrate....I guess i just cant win...like i said. Im gonna take a breater and rethink the hole thing. Thanks though, and if you have anything to add, keep posting it here for me, i will be checking back.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:51 pm 
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being a metal guy, i have a system designed for just this, that system being the one in my car. put 4.5 inch 2 ways in the front, a set of 6 x 9's in the back, where the speakers were, next to the rear bench seat, and then a single 12 in the rear (i have two, but thats not required, just a preference)
im assuming when you say metal you mean things like killswitch engage or dimmu borgir, not godsmack or staind. thats my setup, and it sounds absolutely amazing.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:28 pm 
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Wangspangler wrote:
being a metal guy, i have a system designed for just this, that system being the one in my car. put 4.5 inch 2 ways in the front, a set of 6 x 9's in the back, where the speakers were, next to the rear bench seat, and then a single 12 in the rear (i have two, but thats not required, just a preference)
im assuming when you say metal you mean things like killswitch engage or dimmu borgir, not godsmack or staind. thats my setup, and it sounds absolutely amazing.


I see...hmm...ill look into that maybe...and yes, my metal is more like skinless and bands of the like with "growling" as vocals instead of that mainstream stuff. Did you worry about sealing off the area behind the subs and all that crap? I just want something to look cool and sound nice, but i hate the way speaker enclosures look, thats why i like the cargo tray idea so much.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:28 pm 
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The panel is easy to fiberglass from underneath and it doesn't take much (maybe an 1/8") to make it strong enough to support the weight of the rear speakers. Sealing up the rear (for a small driver anyways) isn't as hard as it would seem either. I think the major area to seal up would be where the 4x6 holes on either side of the parcel tray are. At the very rear you may have a small gap but that shouldn't be rocket science to seal off either.

I haven't looked too much into this but you might be able to find some 4 ohm 8" coaxs still. I know you can get them for home use (at 8 ohms so you'd need to run 2 pairs) and that there were a few manufacturers that did car audio ones too. This would give you a little more bass than a 6.5" driver and may eliminate the need for a sub down the road assuming they can go deep enough in frequency. 6x9's have about the same cone area as a 7" driver so you may get a little bit more bass from them than a 6.5" too. I just don't like 6x9's :P.

BTW stay away from the Blaupunkt clear speakers. We sold them at the shop I worked at. Terrible sounding. I think we sold one pair in a year...to replace some blown speakers in a car that was being sold....

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:43 pm 
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Its OK, I've found you the perfect set of speakers. You don't even have to cut any holes to mount them.
New in boxes, as given by a family friend.
I'm going to see if I can sell them on ebay as vintage car speakers :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:17 pm 
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yeah, my box is closed in the back, but i built it myself, so its color matched to the interior of the car, not that horrible sub box carpet stuff.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:32 pm 
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haha, very funny suprfly.

m, when you say seal off the area around the speakers, do you mean not necessarily the area directly behind the speakers, just that there has to be a nearly air tight area behind the speakers, no matter how large that area is? Im sure that sounded stupid but its hard to expalin what i mean. What im getting at is could i just mount the speakers in the tray (still havent decided whta speakers i'd use, be it two 10s, or a pair of 6X9s) as long as the cargo tray seals the trunk space off when closed? Would that have the same effect? I know the larger the area, the harder it would be to seal...but Im not going for and dB drag racing anytime soon...just dont want it to sound like crap.

Wangspangler, i dont like enclosures period...they just dont do it for me. I dotn know why...thats just how i am.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:38 pm 
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RotaryGreg wrote:
m, when you say seal off the area around the speakers, do you mean not necessarily the area directly behind the speakers, just that there has to be a nearly air tight area behind the speakers, no matter how large that area is?


Exactly. What you trying to mimic with the sealing of the parcel tray area is essentialy a large sealed enclosure. Idealy you don't want any of the sound that comes from the back of the speaker to somehow mix with the sound coming from the front of the speaker. When the sound from both sides mix you get cancellation...and that kills your bass output (most noticeably) and ruins your imaging. Think of it as holding a subwoofer out of a box and running power to it...no sound right? Drop it into an enclosure though and all of a sudden you got's lot's O bass :P.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:42 pm 
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m wrote:
RotaryGreg wrote:
m, when you say seal off the area around the speakers, do you mean not necessarily the area directly behind the speakers, just that there has to be a nearly air tight area behind the speakers, no matter how large that area is?


Exactly. What you trying to mimic with the sealing of the parcel tray area is essentialy a large sealed enclosure. Idealy you don't want any of the sound that comes from the back of the speaker to somehow mix with the sound coming from the front of the speaker. When the sound from both sides mix you get cancellation...and that kills your bass output (most noticeably) and ruins your imaging. Think of it as holding a subwoofer out of a box and running power to it...no sound right? Drop it into an enclosure though and all of a sudden you got's lot's O bass :P.


oh, okay. I kinda thought that was the case. Only problem is sealing such a large area could be tricky...How imparative is it that its air tight though?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:04 pm 
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Well the tighter the better of course but it's not like your gonna be running huge amounts of power through the speakers. I would just get it as tight as you canNo need to spend the day doing it for a set of 6x9's. If your planning on running a pair of 10's though you will need to look into sealing it up airtight.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:16 pm 
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Would keeping a blanket or something back there help? You know to absorb some of the energy. It seems that speakers placed towards the back of the vehicle have a much better low frequency response than a speaker placed in the door or dash. I have been temped to run a low pass on some 6x9's for the bass in a light weight stereo configuration.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:07 pm 
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The blanket idea wouldn't work, my friend tried that in the back of his car and the speakers still sounded like crap.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:30 pm 
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I've put my 6x9's in a small sealed box and they sounded like crap. They sounded much better mounted in the package tray area of my Caddy with the trunk as the enclosure.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:42 pm 
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Do you think these work worth a damn

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl ... er=260-790

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:40 pm 
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i use them and i think they make a huge difference. i dont know how they work, but im guessing that they help to seal off the area.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:25 pm 
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whats the difference between dual or single voice coils? which is better? also, whats the 4 ohm refer too? and is 8 ohm better or worse or require diffent things to work? To those of you who have been following along and helping me out, what would be the best for my setup? I found some nice visonik 10" dual 4ohm voile coil subs...would that work for me?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:43 pm 
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the impedance of the voice coils can be changed by wiring the dual voice coil windings in series or parallel combinations to match the output of your amp. the lower the rating on the voice coil, the more current you can pull from the amp (up to the limits of the amp.) effectively, you can pull twice the current from an amp at 4 ohms than you can at 8 ohms. that increases the amp's power output considerably. if you wire a dual 4 ohm voice coil in parallel, you can decrease the impedance to 2 ohms and maximize the power you can supply to that load.

you also have to be sure that the specific amp you'll be using can handle the lower impedance. some amps just won't play into a load lower than 4 ohms. some high current capable amps will play into loads as low as 1/2 ohm. you also have to consider a lot of other things when you design a high current set up in your car like sizing the supply wire to safely conduct all that current. i ran 2 1200 watt amps on a cable directly from the battery that was about the diameter of my little finger (4 gauge) and another 600 watt 4 channel amp off an 8 gauge cable. those larger cables add considerable weight to the car and have to be properly fused to avoid an electrical fire.

car audio has a pretty common design for 4 ohm speakers (or combinations of speakers) and amps are pretty commonly rated for delivery at 4 ohms. most of the time, performance into 8 ohm speakers is pretty mediocre (like 25 watts or so vs. 50 watts into 4 ohms or 100 watts into 2 ohms.) the dual voice coil subs will allow you to operate a stereo amp into one speaker or allow some flexibility in wiring for various power ratings.

while i wouldn't offer any review of visonik subs (to each his own) they would probably work just fine for you. if you like the price and have checked the on-line reviews of the product you should be able to build or buy an enclosure to suit the drivers and the space in your car.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:45 am 
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Metropwr wrote:
Do you think these work worth a damn

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl ... er=260-790


The problem with using those for your 6x9's is that your gonna defeat the purpose of using the hatch area to get bass. While TS parameters for 6x9's are hard, if not impossible, to get you will notice that on almost every one you see that they are optimized for a large enclosure like a trunk (or in your case the hatch) to get the best bass response from them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:59 am 
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Okay, t3 ragtop, thank you for the info. Im now a little nervous as to what amp i need, for what subs i buy....I dont want anything that'll blow my car apart, like ive said before, but i dont want to buy some shitty amp that wont really do anything at all...Also, i dont what to spend 500 bucks on an amp. I was at princess auto, and they had a 500w amp for 200 bucks. I dont know about it though...they are known for selling really cheap crap, quality wise. The thing is, any amps from futureshop or a stereo shop with the same watts is like 500+. I looked in future shop and all the amps they have for like 200 bucks are not even 100watts...would it even be worth getting? I need some amp advice, desperatly! Something cheap(less than 300 CAD), something that doesnt suck....is there such a thing?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:50 pm 
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There is a 600W JBL amp available that should be of good quality and a resonable price. I think it's the 600.1.

I have put some 6x9's in a pre fab box once, maybe 1/2 Cu. Ft., there seemed to be very poor response below 200Hz. I have also noticed that when I took the door panel out of my car the bass response was gone although the highs and mids were still there.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:25 pm 
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For a basic setup (if you've already tried the power from the headunit and don't think it's loud enough) 75W per channel can get very loud. Couple that with 200-300W to a sub if your gonna use one. For the cost of doing a sub in the car (buying your own sub/amp/enclosure/wiring kit) simply for some lower end fill you would be 10 times better going with the simplicity/cost effectivness that a Bazooka offers. If your gonna end up with a system that hits you in the chest when you play...avoid the Bazooka and buy seperate components to do a better subwoofer system.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:47 pm 
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Okay, so ive decided, to get the look i want, im gonna have to get a pair of 10"s. So, now the setup is a pair of 10s hanging in the cargo tray. Now, i have to fiberglass the cargo tray to hold that weight, and do something about the other parts that hold the tray up to strengthen them, but no problems there. My dad is a pro fiberglasser. I need an amp now i guess....where to mount it though...i kinda want it completely out of the way...and also, still have to decide what amp to get....Also, can i run the normal speakers off the head unit and just the subs of the amp, or is it better to go off the amp. also, whats the number of channels have to do with? whats the best as far as channels go for a mild setup like mine will be?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:02 pm 
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The number of channels refers to the number of seperate signals the amp provides.

For sub use i would reccomend using a mono (single channel) and running the subs parallel.
You just have to make sure you are paying attention to what your buying and the load it will show to the amp once your done. (ie. two 4ohm SVC subs will show a 2ohm load to your amp)

You can run your other speakers of your head unit. in all honesty though i would reccomend you atleast get a budget amp to run these. A while back i purchased a new 55wx2 amp off ebay for like 6 bucks well worth the investment. For this i would reccomend maybe only running your fronts off an amp, back off the Head unit, subs of the other amp.

Hmmmm... so much to say

Check how many preouts you have on your deck, probably have 2 pairs, if your really lucky youll have a sub preout aswell.

Your best bet would be to find the tens you want... then we can help you more... also, i dont know how experienced you are with the wiring, but you may want to start researching.

take it easy,
naDz


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:55 pm 
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Im very confident that i can figure out the wiring. I am apprenticing for Auto Service Technician, and i have traced and fixed many wiring problems. I might not know exactly what im getting in to, but i know i can figure it out, especially with my dad for back up if i need him. The speakers im looking at are 2 10" 4ohms dual voice coils if that matters alot. I think they were something like 250w. Thats just a possibility though...

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