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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:09 pm 
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Given that information... your going to want an amp that will push between 500 to 600w @ 2 Ohms if you plan to run the speakers mono - parallel

Now you have to choose the amp... this is where your researching should begin. Personally with your budget i would be looking at some of the smaller namebrands as normally you will get better bang for your buck

naDz


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:55 pm 
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naDz wrote:
Given that information... your going to want an amp that will push between 500 to 600w @ 2 Ohms if you plan to run the speakers mono - parallel

Now you have to choose the amp... this is where your researching should begin. Personally with your budget i would be looking at some of the smaller namebrands as normally you will get better bang for your buck

naDz


Okay, thats very helpful thanks. Question though, what if i went with a two channel and connected each sub seperatly, would that allow me to get an amp with 250-300w @ 4 Ohms with similar results then? Im just exploring my options and learning along the way, sorry if im asking millions of stupid questions and challenging everyones input, its just how i learn.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:23 am 
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naDz wrote:
Given that information... your going to want an amp that will push between 500 to 600w @ 2 Ohms if you plan to run the speakers mono - parallel


Your gonna run 500-600W with an alternator that pushes maybe 55A? Not gonna happen without a few issues. 500W will literaly rattle apart his parcel shelf. He'll never get a good enough seal without some serious work. Subs will be running freeair effectively halving their rated power (since there is no air suspension to control the cones) and increasing their sensitivity. 200W freeair should be more than enough for somebody who doesn't want something to pound them in the chest. If he does he'll need to build a box and then consider how to get that much power to them.

naDz wrote:
@ 2 Ohms if you plan to run the speakers mono - parallel


How is he going to get a 2 ohm load from a pair of DVC 10's? He will need an amp that does max power at 4 ohms or 1.

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Last edited by m on Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:46 pm 
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So are you saying for my setup then, to run a pair of tens, a 1 channel 200ish watt amp? correct? will that put alot of strain on the alternator? Also, if its a single channel, would it have to be able to handle 2 ohms then instead of 4 cause i'd have to run the subs together, correct?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:01 pm 
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Here's the problem Greg. Your first post indicated that you want a simple system without a lot of money into it. Now your up to a system that will take a real investment and some pretty good fabrication skills to pull off properly. If it's looks you seek out of it and you don't really care about the sound reinforce the parcel tray and drop the subs in. If you want something that actualy sounds as good as it can...well you need to figure out exactly what you want and then we can tell you what to do and not go over a million variations to get yet more changes in criteria.

A 200W amp won't cause you any great problems.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:31 pm 
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m wrote:
Here's the problem Greg. Your first post indicated that you want a simple system without a lot of money into it. Now your up to a system that will take a real investment and some pretty good fabrication skills to pull off properly. If it's looks you seek out of it and you don't really care about the sound reinforce the parcel tray and drop the subs in. If you want something that actualy sounds as good as it can...well you need to figure out exactly what you want and then we can tell you what to do and not go over a million variations to get yet more changes in criteria.

A 200W amp won't cause you any great problems.


Okay okay, i see where you're coming from, but the thing is that my simple system idea has evolved with all the suggestions ive read. Im comfortable with the fiberglassing of the tray to support the subs, my dad could do it with his eyes shut, so he'll help me out. Then, sealing off the area we can limp our way through im sure. Its just that i dont want the system to sound like garbage. I dont want it to be crazy loud, i just dont want any sizzling and crap like that. I dont want to have any electric/alternator problems as a result of the system as well. Thats pretty much where i stand. I can get pretty much any 10" subs quite cheaply, so thats not an issue, its just the amp and understanding what i need to avoid a crapy sounding system.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:45 pm 
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Easy:

Components in the front with either a tube in the back or subs in a box.

Moderate:

Same as above but you can throw some 6x9's or whatever in the back.

Difficult:

Design and implement a proper freeair setup in the back. Reinforce parcel shelf (or make new one from wood) and secure it so that it can't rattle. Seal off any air leaks to help with cancellation. Use subwoofers that are designed to run in a large enclosure or freeair/infinite baffle setup. Rienforce some more...just to be sure it won't move ;). Secure panels in hatch space to stop them from rattling. You can use sound deadener on the parcel shelf (underneath) to deaden it up a bit. Small 200W amp to power them. Components in the front.

The sizzling your talking about will be a byproduct of the speaker you choose to use. Better speakers don't and some cheaper speakers do. Listne to as many speakers as you can to get a better idea of how they will sound. Don't listen to them head on as they will be off axis in your car.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:28 pm 
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Okay, so i have been doing some shoping around, talking to more people and such...and mainly, like you suggested m, listening to alot of speakers. Still havent decided what to do as far as subs or 6X9s or whatever...money is way too tight at the moment anyways. However i did get an amp for free. Well, not completely free. My dad traded his sunglasses(which he hated anyways) to a co-worker in exchange for this amp. the amp is:

American LEGACY series 2
LA590
Two Channel
800W max power


I have no clue about it though...has anyone had experience or even heard of Legacy? I guess i cant really go wrong for the price though, right? But, i have no clue how to hook it up now. And, i have nothing to hook it up to. Now, if i decide to just do 6X9s for now, would it be beneficial to hook them up to the amp? Im still wanting to do some subs in the future. There are a pair of 12s at my dads shop that have been there for ever, i can get them for next to nothing...they are rockbox or something like that, 700W peak. Also, how hard is it to custom make a box? what do you have to concider? i mean, does it just have to be air tight or what? I was thinking, if i absolutly have to do a box, at least if i can custom make them to be as small and fit the tightest in the trunk as possible, that would be better than a giant square ugly peice like the ones you buy are. also...why wants to pay for something like that if they can make it. thanks in advance guys, and sorry to start this up again, im sure some of you were getting mad at my insesant questions but i like to get as much info as i can before i do something.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:51 pm 
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Legacy amps are a lower end name. Kinda like Pyle and pyramid. It says 800W...expect maybe 100W. Retails for around $100. it's a surplus store amp. Can't answer wether or not they should go on the 6x9's cause I don't believe in rear speakers :mrgreen:.

Custom box is tailored to the sub...better performance. Things to consider are skill of the builder, skill of the designer, and how much space is available to fit it. Something better than an ugly square box...I dunno...maybe a Bazooka.

Cheap subs sound cheap. Two cheap 12's will get demolished by a good 10 that takes up half the space to get the job done. You must choose...but choose wisely...the right sub will gove you hapiness...the wrong sub will take it from you.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:13 pm 
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m wrote:
Legacy amps are a lower end name. Kinda like Pyle and pyramid. It says 800W...expect maybe 100W. Retails for around $100. it's a surplus store amp. Can't answer wether or not they should go on the 6x9's cause I don't believe in rear speakers :mrgreen:.

Custom box is tailored to the sub...better performance. Things to consider are skill of the builder, skill of the designer, and how much space is available to fit it. Something better than an ugly square box...I dunno...maybe a Bazooka.

Cheap subs sound cheap. Two cheap 12's will get demolished by a good 10 that takes up half the space to get the job done. You must choose...but choose wisely...the right sub will gove you hapiness...the wrong sub will take it from you.


lol, i like that last part. Um...as for the custom box...my dad has lots of skill with wood working...so i mean, that helps im sure. what matterial do you make a box out of for best results, like what type of wood...is there something better than wood? Also, the amp is actually 400W on two channels, thats why they say 800W i guess...like i said, not expecting much from it, it was pretty much free.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:57 pm 
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The amp won't hit 400W. Their 1600W amp doesn't hit 300WRMS. There 1000W 4 channle amp does 35x4. Trust me...you could pass a bolt of lightning through that amp and it still won't hit 400W....ever. That peak rating is an arbitrary figure. It's like saying my Swift has a 500hp motor because when it was on the dyno I ran a 500 shot of nitrous for 1/100 of a second and it somehow stayed together. It's not a real world number.

Box material depends on $$$. MDF is cheap and works very well for an enclosure. Easy to work with and easy to finnish. Drawbacks are solely in it's weight as far as car audio applications are concerned. Low void plywood is lighter than MDF, more expensive, and takes mre work to get a good finnish as it isn't as smooth as MDF. There isn't any "right" material for it. You could use 1/2" aluminum to make an enclosure just as easily as you could use concrete to make the baffle. As long as it's stiff and doesn't resonate. You should hear a "thud" when you knock on it as opposed to a hollow sound.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:08 pm 
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m wrote:
The amp won't hit 400W. Their 1600W amp doesn't hit 300WRMS. There 1000W 4 channle amp does 35x4. Trust me...you could pass a bolt of lightning through that amp and it still won't hit 400W....ever. That peak rating is an arbitrary figure. It's like saying my Swift has a 500hp motor because when it was on the dyno I ran a 500 shot of nitrous for 1/100 of a second and it somehow stayed together. It's not a real world number.

Box material depends on $$$. MDF is cheap and works very well for an enclosure. Easy to work with and easy to finnish. Drawbacks are solely in it's weight as far as car audio applications are concerned. Low void plywood is lighter than MDF, more expensive, and takes mre work to get a good finnish as it isn't as smooth as MDF. There isn't any "right" material for it. You could use 1/2" aluminum to make an enclosure just as easily as you could use concrete to make the baffle. As long as it's stiff and doesn't resonate. You should hear a "thud" when you knock on it as opposed to a hollow sound.


Baffle? what do you mean by that. also, is that a thud when the sub is in it, sealing it shut or what? also, what does MDF stand for?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:39 pm 
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Baffle is the front of the enclosure

MDF= medium density fiberboard

Thud=accousticaly dead...non resonant...does not make it's own harmonics...with or without sub in it....sealed or not.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:40 pm 
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wow, summed up in three simple lines, lol. good stuff. thanks...looking into it as we speak, or post or whatever.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 pm 
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Im reviving my thread. I just bought a 10" Punch sub in a box for next to nothing. seems pretty good for what i want. 300w, 150rms. I have a crappy amp, the one i spoke about before....but im sure it'll do for this. Now, im wondering a couple things. what all does the amp need? like the main power cable from the battery i know, and a ground, then the pre-outs or whatever from the headunit, and then the wires going to the sub...but what else do i need to run? any tips?

Greg

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:07 am 
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Go to the JL Audio website (IIRC jlaudio.com) and I believe they have an amplifier tutorial in their FAQ pages.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:22 pm 
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M - still using butle to keep things together or have you upgraded to hott glue? :P (for everyone else...I'm kidding)

Rotary, sounds like M has you going in the right direction. Keep it simple! When wiring your amp make sure you have fuses at the power source, correct size fuses and correct size wire.

I too HATE rear speakers, especially in small cars like the Swift.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 1:54 pm 
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amxdreamer wrote:
M - still using butle to keep things together or have you upgraded to hott glue? :P


Duct tape my friend. Duct tape.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 5:11 pm 
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hey if the women don't find ya handsome...lol

M - I've been working on the install in my T-Bird and went to buy more RCA's as the ones from the GTi were a little short. I have built to length IL400 in there now...wow these cables are worth some $$$$ now! a 5' RCA was 90 bucks! I need to find something a little less expensive!

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 11:58 pm 
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Try CAT5 cable ;). I still haven't gotten used to the fact that my sub amp retailed for $1700CDN when I bought it :shock:.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 6:56 pm 
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no doubt, my old PPI 2075 (white) retailed for almost 1100 canadian back in the day.

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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 3:31 am 
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I hear ya. If I added the system up I'd likely pass out from shock. That being said, 3 15's hopefully in the next couple of weeks for the truck....

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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:56 am 
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Okay, new question...what wires do you use to run from the amp to the sub? I guess im asking what is speaker wire? is it just like normal 10 ga wire or something? I have all the wires and everything run now, including a decent 5 ga power wir, just need to know what i need to run from the amp to the sub, my wiring kit didnt have that. I guess i'd need wire able to handle about 200 maybe 300 watts just to be safe.

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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:40 pm 
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12-14 gauge will be fine. Even if you want to use a :gasp: lamp cord you will be fine.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:06 am 
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I would skip the speakers in the back altogether. Music coming from behind you sounds akward and unnatural. Go with 6.5" midbasses in the doors and some tweeters in sail panels or something. The most important step you need to take here is to deaden the doors. Not only to stop the rattles and vibrations in the doors but mainly just to seal the doors up completely. Well as best you can. Seal up all the holes with deadener and plexiglass or some sort of sheet metal with deadener over it. I just used metal grating/grill material from lowes. Cut it to fit the holes. Screw it in place. Then put a couple layers of deadener over it all. I also have a couple layers on the inside of the door on the far wall. With a layer of ensolite foam to stop high frequency road noise. Then put another layer or ensolite or closed cell foam on the outside layer over the butyl based deadener. Once the door is all sealed up you will get MUCH better low end out of your speakers. It won't sound like you're listening to a pair of tin cans anymore.

I managed to fit these 6.5" Image Dynamics CX62 midbasses in my doors of my 98 metro hatchback. I have to cut the hole bigger in the door card, cut the hole bigger in the door itself and then cut out a piece of the window track mount. Then I cut out 4 speaker rings out of 3/4" MDF and stacked them one of top of the other 2 on each door to fill the gap from the door to the outside of the door card. I glued them together and coated them in fiberglass resin to seal them watertight otherwise it'll warp them bad. MDF soaks up water like a sponge and expands like crazy. But it fits now and sounds great. They put out so much bass I don't have to run subs in my car. I've been asked what sub I'm running before but I don't have one in my car.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


You NEED an amp for the speakers or it's gonna sound like crap. Stock head units put out around 14-18 watts RMS per channel. Those speakers I have are rated at 150 watts @ 2 ohms. Even bestbuy speakers are gonna be rated at like 60-80 watts RMS and you'll never get them to perform to their full potential without an amp giving them enough power. I recommend these speakers to anyone who wants good output and excellent detail. Get the Image Dynamics CX62 6.5" midbasses with the Image Dynamics NX30 tweeters and either the crossover that comes with them or just buy a used Pioneer Premier 880PRS head unit that has 3way crossovers and a 16 band graphic EQ. That head unit is awesome, I love it. It's very popular in the SQ car audio scene. For the amp you can either get a 2 channel amp if you're going to run them off the crossover they come with or if you want to run them active and use the head unit to adjust the crossovers, get a 4 channel amp that'll put out 150 watts per channel. I would just go with the external crossovers and you can buy a cheaper head unit and not have to adjust them yourself. Plus you can get away with a 2 channel 150watt per channel @ 2 ohms.

Sorry if that was long. Just trying to help. It's my hobby. :D

Here's a link to the setup I had in my car for a while. Now I'm redoing it with different speakers. I'm also adding a pair of 10" Image Dynamics IDQ subs! YAY!


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20827


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