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 Post subject: Horn Loaded 8"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:58 pm 
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Check this out and tell me what you think. It uses a long throw 8" 16mm Xmax from mcm electronics for around $32 and 100 watts or less will out run a 15" with 400 watts. I want to build one for a female friend's car so when she comes bumpin' up and people ask what the hell is in there she can tell them a single 8, 100 watts.

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/plans/pr ... 5e660577b1

Here is the woofer

http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?cat ... =55%2D2421

I have heard reviews of his larger designs using a dual 15" folded horn design ran in a pair can be heard over a mile away, they are called the tuba 36.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:04 pm 
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I don't have a lot of exprience with horns in car audio environments. I have, however, used them in PA and they are certainly efficient. I know that Decware once had a design on their website that used a pair of 6.5" woofers that competed with 15's for sound. I think they metered it at 142db (Audiocontrol Mic though) at something like 30Hz. Wether or not that horn will work for you I can't answer. It looks like it has a pretty good bumb just above 40Hz though so it looks like it would like to pound pretty good. If your up to it look up Snailshell enclosures. They have been tailored to car audio use and are simply amazing for sound quality and output. I haven't heard one personaly but have heard many people rave about them.

Be carefulu of claims that a small diameter sub will outrun larger diameter ones with a quarter of the power. While some are certainly capable of it it's a little like me saying that with a 50 shot of Nitrous my 4cyl will outrun a 400HP V8. It might...if the V8 is sitting in a 5000lb caddy....but if it's sitting in a purpose built drag car...well...you get the point :P.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:11 pm 
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The SS design is just a TL, right? At the moment I really getting into horns. I was thinkng about using some Cerwin Vega Afterburner subs for my P.A. until I foud the Tuba subs. I want to build 2- Tuba 36's now loaded with 15" Eminence woofers.

The reason I want to try the 8" loaded enclosure for the car is to see how his designs work, they are quite cheap to build, and require very little power for the output. I would be tempted to even build a horn using a long throw 6.5" for the car.

For my P.A. I want to use his 300 Concert PA tops (to replace my JBL TR225's) mated with the tuba 36's. I would like to get into spinning/DJing. I am now addicted to the bass and the clean sound of the horns. I went to the Ice Club, Las Vegas. They have 4- Funktronics Dance Stax with 25K watts each. That was the best PA I have ever heard hands down.

Yeah, I agree with you on the Small sub/Large subs. A $1000 dollar sub in a shit box may not run with a $30 sub in a well built box. The way I figure it why not build the horn if the cost is around $75 and I already hve the small amp.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:09 pm 
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wagon and i made a run over to dayton last week to pick up raw drivers for his home stereo project. mcm is the same outfit as http://www.partsexpress.com/

they had some awesome speakers but i recall these for their super xmax and cheap price. let us know how the enclosures work out. i hope they don't sound like someone blowing on a pop bottle. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:14 pm 
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MCM and Partsexpress ae not the same to the best of my knowledge.

What kind of project are you guys doing?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:26 pm 
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i thought that mcm and parts express were like sister companies. they're both in dayton and in the same industrial park.

chuckwagon is always building a stereo project. his current home set up is a full dolby 5.1 speaker set using 3 way corners with a 10", 2 7" in a dipole arrangement, and a sweet 3/4" silk dome morel tweeter in 4 enclosures, a center channel using 2 of the 7" and a single morel tweeter, and the monster of the system - a wicked one "coffee table" folded horn subwoofer using 2 12" hart drivers (14mm xmax) driven by a 1024 watt rms monoblock sub amp! =) we had to run a dedicated 40 amp 120 vac line to power the sub amp, what a monster.

he's busy applying the black ash vinyl laminate to the center channel speaker and the folded horn sub enclosure tonight. that wicked one is a mean mofo for spl, too. it'll reach right down to low c with gut splattering output. we listened to "toccatta in c" and i thought the roof was going to fall down. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:31 pm 
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That wicked one (Decware i believe) is a pretty wild box. ABC designs are yet another succesful in car application. Was gonna build one for my 15's until I saw the light and went infinite baffle....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:57 pm 
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What's an ABC designs? I can't seem to find anything about it.

That wicked one box is huge. Doesn't the "horn" seem a little short. This is more of a bandpass box, right?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:37 pm 
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ABC enclosures are like a 6th order bandpass. I'll give you a rough idea on how to do it but I haven't looked at the design in a long time so it would need to be verified. In a nutshell you design a ported enclosure and work out the tunning and volume to where you want it. Work out the port length for using two ports. Measurments in hand you will need to cut three ports of the specified length (using the length required for two ports). Now, when you design your enclosure you will be making it with two chambers. The one with the sub in it will be the volume that you worked out for the ported enclosure. The second chamber will be exacty half the volume of the first. One port will go in each chamber and the other will be used to connect the two chambers together. Gives you a very efficient system (not as efficient as a horn though) with very good sound quality.

The horn in the Decware design (which I think is what is based off of 1/4 waves if I'm not mistaken and that may be why the horn seems short. The design for it is now available for free here. Again, horns are a little foreign to me as 95% of the enclosures I've built were for car audio and 98% of them have been ported. The other 2% consisted of a few sealed and one bandpass enclosure. I suppose I could read up on them and figure them out...but by then you'll already have your enclosure built :P.

T3:

Why the need for a 40A breaker for only 1200W? I've run 2500W (yes RMS) amps off 15A 120V circuits before with no problem. What gives? Your right about the enclosure being a bad mofo....but he'll never get as low as my IB seup :P:P:P:P. Tell him to jump online once in a while. Haven't spoken to him in look, I'm retarded a year or so.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:00 pm 
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I have done the math for a 6th order BP before and the box was huge. For a single 12" Fosgate the box was at least 6 cu. ft.. So I built, I think it was a fourth order BP. It worked pretty good considering the sub wasn't measured prior to the build. I think it provided for a 6db boost between 30Hz and 100Hz.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:12 pm 
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Well I've heard of some in the 3-4 cubic foot range. Remember, your designing for a ported enclosure and then adding on an extra half. Some will be huge depending on the subwoofer though. It's not identical to the 6th order either. Remember that you have the sub mounted in one enclosure which is tuned into the other one. The 6th order has your sub mounted with the front firing into one chamber and the back firing into the other. The ABC has the front of the sub firing out.

As for being like a 6th order...I should have been a bit more clear...An ABC system is similar to a 6th order, however more flat in response than the 6th order bandpass. When modeled, the ABC enclosure can be considered an equivilant to a 6th order of very large volume (20^3+) but with a lot less size.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:52 pm 
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how is the little 8" horn enclosure coming along?

m, the dedicated 40 amp service, i guess, was for the whole stereo system. wagon ran into troubles holding the 15 amp breaker running a technics 5 channel receiver, a 4 channel sony amp, a 2 channel hafler amp, and the big subwoofer amp. he also had his computer (creative extigy external usb 5.1 sound card) and monitor on the same power line.

as far as him posting, he lost his teamswift account about a year ago due to bounced PM notices and then his roomie gave up the cable internet connection. he never had a phone land line (he runs on his cell phone) and since his room mate landed a job with intel and moved to oregon, wagon hasn't ever had the high speed internet re-activated. he's too busy for the web anyway. :lol: if he needs online he jumps on my box when he comes over.

the wicked one is a screaming monster. he can set off car alarms half a block away from his house. :twisted: the whole front of his house rattles and you can feel the concrete sidewalk bumpin' out there. i was walking up to his door the other day and i was sort of impressed by that. i had to wait for the track to end before he could hear me pounding on his door. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:25 am 
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This is why I just Buy Pre-done speakers anymore. Too Much Hassle. I have a Very Nice setup,With (My downfall) a 8" Infinity Sub with a 75 Watt Class "D" amp.Downfall??WAY TOO SMALL/NOT ENOUGH POWER :(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:06 am 
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The downfall....is that your buying prebuilt subs :P.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:00 pm 
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I have to put off the 8" horn for a little while. I will build one one day along with some 15" P.A. horns.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:36 pm 
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this stuff is soo confusing to me, i dont understand how this works.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:42 am 
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for anyone who cares, I've built a total of three different folded horn loaded subs...

one for a single 12inch pioneer sub, which was an experiment.

two compact folded horns, for a pair of cheapo 8inch subs.

and, two large folded horns, for the original 12inch pioneer subs...

horns, do not work well in small cars, I can tell you that.

however, in a larger vehicle, such as a station wagon, or a van, they do quite well. With a single, cheapo 8inch sub, I hit 134dBs at 44Hz, in a TermLab SPL meter. This was a musical box, that played well down to 35Hz.

pics can be found here:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthre ... genumber=1

:) oh, and the two horns, off the same amp as one, did 137dBs at 44Hz.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:16 pm 
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Why do you say they do not work good in small cars?

The one I want to build has a 7' horn path I believe and a 14"x15". How long is your horn? To me it doesn't appear to be very long.

Thinking about it I may start off with an 8" horn with the $35 MCM and later build a 10" version with the Eminence HL10.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:05 pm 
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Metropwr wrote:
Why do you say they do not work good in small cars?

The one I want to build has a 7' horn path I believe and a 14"x15". How long is your horn? To me it doesn't appear to be very long.

Thinking about it I may start off with an 8" horn with the $35 MCM and later build a 10" version with the Eminence HL10.


just over eight feet long... with a mouth area (I assume thats what you were asking?) thats 12inches X 13inches, or there abouts :)

shorter horn, and larger mouth (as the one you plan on making) will have slightly higher efficiency, but less low end :)

oh, and I say they don't work well in small cars, cos they don't!!! I've had one of these 6inch horns, in a Camry sedan, and a celica hatchback.. and it was quieter, and didn't sound as good in both of them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:59 pm 
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How does it compare to a standard sealed 12" in a good box? Like maybe a Vega 12.

I was actually going to put the 10" horn loaded in my '79 300SD Benz. There is an aweful lot of stuff between the trunk and the passenger compartment, like the steel baffle, fuel tank,seat, and carpet padding.

I was going to put the 8" in my friends Honda accord. Maybe latter the 8" in another Metro.

Did you just place the sub in the trunk? Which way was the mouth pointing? I've heard that when you place the horn mouth towards the back of the vehicle it help boundry load. That makes little sense to me since the car is the boundry itself.

I have also heard that when you use the bigger horn loaded subs in a smaller room that they so not work well either, perhaps the same principle is involved with in the confines of an automobile interior.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:17 pm 
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I played with different orientation of the horn, in the sedan... it seemed to sound loudest, and best, with the horns mouth facing sideways, rather than to the rear.

trust me, don't bother making horns if they are going into a sedan. It will sound like a bad 10inch sub at best, which is just pointless.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:23 pm 
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I'll make one for my Benz and try it in my friends Honda for shits and giggles. Her car already has an amp and sub so it will be an easy experiment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:47 pm 
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so, did you end up making it? :p


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:08 am 
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Nope, I blew up the Benz. There is no room in my'78 Toy pickup for even me to sit.

I want to make a dual 8" HL autotuba and let my friend us it until I get another car orr have a place to use it.

It is more likely that I will build a couple of 15" loaded horns for my PA over the car woofers though. My current sub blows and I have no rig for my bass guitar. So the 2-15's I have now will be used in a couple of Omni 15's for my bass and a couple of Eminence magnums will be ordered for two horns.

I want to cause some structural damage to my current jam room (approx. 300 Sq. Ft.). Boom!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:34 am 
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you blew up the benz?

:?

I have two horn loaded 12inch subs in my room, off a 2 X 750watt PA amp :D

pretty loud (mid 130dBs) but I'd like louder :D lol


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