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 Post subject: Soundproofing
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:53 pm 
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Not sure if this is more interior/exterior upgrade, or stereo talk, but I figure this will first interest the audiophiles. Plus, the audiophiles will be the first ones with good info for me.

I'm trying to inexpensively quiet my car down, for a quieter ride at freeway speed especially. So far, I need to find the following:

- Cheap Dynamat substitute at hardware store (custom car audio buddy kept talking about it, but never got 'round to telling me what it was called before he disappeared)
- Replacement trim fasteners
- Ultra-quiet (but powerful) blower for A/C and heat

I'm also hoping that an indoor/outdoor carpet-based underbelly pan and front grille block will absorb additional road noise. I suspect that for the sake of weight balancing that I will ultimately end up removing the tar vibe absorbers when the dynamat goes in.

Neoprene/Poly washers and bushings in certain key locations is also a consideration...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:58 pm 
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He was probably talking about Brown Bread for sound deadening. Can't help you with the fan question...I don't think there is an ultra quiet fan. Don't know the technical name for them but I use simple push in fasteners...the kind that use friction to hold them in tight. Much tighter than the center pin type. Holds panels much better over the long run too.

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 Post subject: Ultra-quiet fan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:53 am 
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Okay, so I'm a computer geek at heart...

I was thinking something along the lines of a 3" high-output CPU fan, or one of those little cylindrical fans with the squarish output (don't know the actual name, sorry) like my carpet cleaner buddy uses for flooded carpets...

Right off the bat, the noisiest things in the car are the old bus rattle (it's a 93, and I've had it since February this year) and the A/C fan. I'm in Texas, so the A/C fan is a constant annoyance. It's not loud like it's going bad, just loud like I'm going insane from hearing it.

'Preciate the brown bread tip...

))))) Update (((((

Found something on homedepot.com called thermwell, with good reviews for quieting a corvette. Nice and cheap, too. Browsing homedepot online sucks because it doesn't do justice to what's in the store. It keeps my wife off my back, though, because it keeps me out of the store and the checkbook. Quibbles over every little $200, she does...


Last edited by iuvius on Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:56 am 
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Install a louder stereo, thats how I got rid of the annoying rattle in my 2nd mk2 :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:00 am 
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You won't likely find a fan that is as efficient as the one made for the AC. Even the quietest of cars will have blower fan noise. Since your in Texas you may want to look at a roll on type deadener as well. The heat tends to make sound deadening on anything but the floor try to peel. Dynamat is likely the stickiest and Brown Bread won't be as sticky.

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 Post subject: Fan replacement
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:27 am 
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http://www.pricewatch.com

Okay, good quiet 12v fans that are very voltage tolerant. The question is... can I hook 4 of them up 2 x 2 and get more throughput?

Or for that matter... could I use smaller fans, say 3" comp fans, and just install one in front of each vent, sucking the air across heater core, etc, instead of pushing it with one big blower? If I put two fans behind a piece of filter material inside each vent, I could theoretically deaden more noise, as well as making the air inside the car nicer to breathe, right?

Dang, it's WAY too late at night, and I'm starting to sound like I'm on drugs. Sorry.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:35 am 
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Now I'm not sure how many CFM's a case fan can do but I'm pretty sure they aren't gonna match the output of the stock fan. Even mouting four of them could have it's problems with sealing off the area behind it where the OEM fan mounts. The factory fan is also a squirrel cage type which will be much more efficient than a few computer fans. The noise isn't so much the fan itself as much as it is the velocity of the air going through the ductwork in the car. If your fan is making that much noise (from the fan and not the air rushing through the vent) you may have a deffective unit. Mine is pretty quiet and I don't find it anoying at all.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:32 am 
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Larger fans tend to be much quieter than smaller fans (ever hear the racket a laptop makes when it's cooling fan comes on?). My recommendation would be to rebalance the impeller and armature assembly. A properly balanced fan can be very quiet. Another step would be to remove as much turbulance as possible from the air ducts. Remove ridges, sharp corners, fill stagnant voids, eliminate accordion tubing. You may even be able to run the fan at a lower speed if you improve the efficiency of your ducting enough.

Since you're on a crusade to eliminate noise, also look into improving your vehicle's aerodynamics. In our Fuel Economy sub-forum, a few people have reported decreased wind noise from aerodymic mods designed to benefit fuel efficiency.

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 Post subject: Efficiency vs Noise
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:46 am 
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Funny you mention aero mods.

I made a cardboard grille block that wrapped around to about 4 inches past those little vertical tow-point things (one on each side with a hole in the middle). Got a lot of crap from my coworkers for using cardboard. First thing I noticed though, even before MPG, was noise reduction, and I began to consider what I might gain from using indoor/outdoor carpeting, smooth side out for aero, carpeting in for noise reduction. The cardboard is so that I can try and err cheaply, and make a good working pattern.

The underbody pan doesn't look to be too tough, though I'm not sure how to deal with the exhaust, i.e. not starting a fire. I'm thinking perhaps going to within a few inches on either side, and leaving it exposed. I had considered going up and around, but I'm not real excited about heat rising at a stop light.

I probably *will* end up replacing my factory fan, if the oem blowers are that efficient and quiet when they're working properly. Maybe use something like thin noise insulation inside the ductwork to streamline and smooth the inside.

Keep 'em comin', guys. All good stuff so far. I can't wait to try it!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:52 am 
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The reason I mentioned balancing the fan was because a buddy of mine has had some medium sized squirrel cage fans that came out of some IBM mainframes. These fans are balanced extremely well, and unusually quiet for their size. Some experiments I've done balancing impellers on other larger fans also had some reductions in noise.

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 Post subject: Re: Efficiency vs Noise
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:06 pm 
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iuvius wrote:
Maybe use something like thin noise insulation inside the ductwork to streamline and smooth the inside.


back in the 80s i did some contracted research and development for ford which involved flow analysis on their escort model climate control system's ducting. we computer modeled the duct work, optimized flow on the 13th floor mainframe, and then physically re-contoured the passages on the duct work with plasticine clay.

since i did the instrumentation and physical measurements of the stock system, played with the clay, and then repeated the measurements, i was able to also make subjective observations as well.

there are only 2 types of fan noise to contend with, direct and reflected. direct sound waves are an impossibility as the fan is buried in the dash and there is no direct, line of sight path to the fan. i measured reflected sound that was many dB down and well below the threshold of ambient operational noise.

i realize that you don't have the ability to instrument and measure and process the data, but you can do some really simple things. smooth out any areas that have square corners, joints, steps. fill in cracks, remove any castings that project into the passageways. any perturbations in air flow are potential whistles and horns. be careful not to reduce the cross sectional area of the ducting or you'll reduce flow and maybe raise the noise floor.

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 Post subject: Trim elements
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:26 am 
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Today, made some minor fixes that made a BIG difference. Specifically, discovered a hatch panel that was completely unconnected, in addition to the one I already knew about. I bought a pack of push-in fasteners and went nuts on the whole car. Also got the outside window strip at the bottom, and a new plastic corner piece for the driver-side door. Better-seating windows will probably help.

A little at a time, to ultimately make a big difference, I suppose, about like fuel-saver mods.


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 Post subject: Mcmaster Carr
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:05 pm 
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McMaster Carr is a HUGE industrial supply company. They sell rolls of Dynamat like stuff for about 1/3 the price.

Try 9709T26 or 9709T19

They have a LOT of other stuff including more sound deadening products.

mcmaster.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:39 am 
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Mcmaster also has a 5 gal. roll on for around $75.

I put elastomeric roofing compound (white stuff) in my truck and it seemed to work well and was about $15/ gal.

I am sure Drylok will work well also (has sand in it an seems to be similar to the roofing compound).

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 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:46 am 
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Metropwr,

I'm about to try installing the elastomeric roofing compound in the floor of my 94 lsi.
Can you give me any pointers and pitfalls to avoid?
How did you apply it? I was going to use a 3/4" Roller from home depot, do you have any recommendations on application?

Any thoughts or tips would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Uproar

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 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:43 am 
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I just paint it on with a brush. More coats for thicker application.

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