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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:08 pm 
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I'm not sure what shows would be near to you but hearing a purpose built SQ vehicle is something to behold. There aren't any SQ comps near me and were lucky to see a couple of SPL comps a year so I haven't been to a comp in a long time. I love having all the bass in the world...but its no good to me unless the rest of the system can keep up.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:25 pm 
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Awesome. I haven't seen this thread in a while... good thread for sure. :D

I've designed my own ported boxes for my cars (and house) and they've turned out fairly well with some inexpensive (or cheap) subs from MCM a few years ago. I'm still using the one ported set that I designed (2x10" DVC aluminum cone) in my 2-door, and a fixed up sealed-box set (2X8" DVC paper cone) that should be moving from my older truck to my wife's truck someday.

So there's no reason why Joe-Nobody in the field of car audio can't design a good-sounding ported box if they spend the time. Just read up on how you should design the boxes and the ports and find yourself someone who made up a spreadsheet that'll show you (theoretical) response curves of the speakers you're thinking of using. (I've got that spreadsheet somewhere... lots of fun designing it.)

The combo of those choices and understanding what cabin gain can do for your bass response (I should really add that to the spreadsheet... shouldn't be hard to do) should set you on the road to a good sounding set of ported subs. :D

One other bonus to using a sealed enclosure is tuning. Often, when building ported enclosures, you'll end up with enclosures and ports that aren't exactly the same between the two boxes... and don't forget that most speakers have differing electrical and mechanical qualities, even in the same batch. So designing the boxes is one thing, getting them to sound identical to each other is quite another. I've came up with a semi-solution to this problem. Create a single-chambered enclosure so that the slight differences between the two drivers will be 'averaged' out and you won't have to worry about your sketchy craftsmanship being a huge factor. It'll be tougher to get the one large box, compared to two boxes half the size, in and out of your car though. ;)

Going with a pair of 10" subs is pretty much a must... you'll be somewhat disappointed with the almost-good-enough performance of 8" subs. I don't go for huge volume, but my system can go loud enough to hurt my ears. I prefer sound quality, and I'm very happy with what I could do with 4x4" speakers and a pair of 10" subs. There's some mid-bass missing that can't be reproduced properly with dinky little 4" speakers, but otherwise it's pretty good for a budget system. The 8" subs would help with mid-bass, but you'd lose on low frequency efficiency and volume. I've almost been tempted to stick them in smaller boxes and stuffing them in the space remaining beside my 10" subs... but then I'd have no place to put washer fluid, jumper cables and my tools. :lol:

Anyway, thought I'd add my 2 cents since I'm building up my system again. Keeping my brain in gear, kinda. :D


Chris


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:17 pm 
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CJDavE wrote:
The 8" subs would help with mid-bass, but you'd lose on low frequency efficiency and volume.


You need to look up the latest crop of 8" speakers on the market. Some of these little monsters can outdo many 12's of a few years ago. Heres a few to look at...

Soundsplinter RL-i 8
Resonant Engineering RE8
Ascendant Audio Assasin 8"
JL Audio 8W3

I didn't include the JL 8W7 because of its astronomical price...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:45 am 
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Since I haven't had any luck selling the vert...I think I will design a stereo system for next summer...I think I will go with 4 - 4" speakers running off a Clarion 53w x 4 deck and 2-10" Phoenix Gold subs in a sealed box running off a mono amp.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:02 am 
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Try to shoehorn something bigger than a 4". You won't regret it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:56 pm 
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when i used 4" high quality long throw drivers i tried to tweak in some upper bass extension with some tedious eq work. i almost got it low enough to work with high power and long excursion 10s in a fat ported box but even great 4" component type speakers are pressed hard to reach down much below 200 hz.

on the verts you can find holes for 5 1/4" speakers low on the cowls that make up the corners for the top well. i mean that they will easily accept the speakers, not that they were made for mounting speakers. :lol: they are actually access holes in the stiffeners. you have to butcher up the plastic covers and use suitable grilles. the speakers also don't do anything for the imaging and that sort of matters in that upper bass range. still, as fill, that's right in the range for road and wind noise that confounds upper bass and lower mid ranges - where the imaging gets pretty obscured at those frequencies anyway.

i'm going to lose the map pockets on the door linings and squeeze a set of 5 1/4" long throw mid woofers on the doors and hope for the best on the imaging. i'm also throwing 1" silk dome tweeters, 4" long throw mids, and the 5 1/4" drivers 50 watts rms each after filtering each band with a line level crossover. another 50 watt rms channel pair will power the coaxial 4" speakers in the rear cowl. that's a total of 8 discrete channels at 50 watts rms each.

i'm going to use 3 10" dual voice coil sub drivers, sq type kove kld series II (ranked #1 by stereo review a few years back) in order to get my impedance down to 3 ohms. that will raise the output of my 1200 watt hart professional ht series amp to 1400 watts. that amp is the original hart version that kove used later as their armageddon line.

i have all the junk to do the complete installation. i lack the motivation to get it done after the car was stolen and gone for months, then recovered without the double fisted throw down stereo system. somewhere between here and new jersey there is some asshole who deserves some really bad karma for that. for this past season, i've been motoring around in the turbo3 vert with wires hanging out of the hole in the dash for the head unit and rca cables laying in the passenger side foot well. they can't steal what isn't there! :-P

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:24 pm 
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Sorry to bump this up but I forgot to ask a question...

Should I point the subs into the cabin or towards the back of the trunk?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:36 pm 
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If you can, try both and see what sounds best to you.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:43 pm 
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you guys ever thought of going solobaric? i had a 10" kicker L7 in my metro and it sounded amazing... not sure if if would sound as good in a vert, you guys are more the experts on how well they will sound, i was just throwing that out there.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:05 pm 
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All that would do for you would be reduce the box size required for half of the isobaric system, IIRC. But you're really not saving that much extra space with a speaker hanging out the other side of the box.

It's been a while since I've designed a sub... so I'm a bit foggy. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:42 pm 
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I think he meant a Kicker Solobaric sub and not an isobaric setup. I could be wrong though?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:34 pm 
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you guys are talking about prefab boxes like they're totally useless. they do exactly what they're supposed to do. obviously some are better than others, but a ported prefab is louder than a sealed and usually doesn't sound awful. (on the whole though I agree they need to do a little more for port noise). bandpass I agree unless you're putting money, design, thought and lots of work into it definitely avoid. I'm a little out of the loop asd to why we're even talking about bandpass though when our topic is a convertible sprint? even a bad bandpass would never fit. I'm not gonna tell you you couldn't pay somebody to design something, but even then it's a stretch imo.

in a convertible it would be quite difficult to get a decent level of output from a sealed box unless a) the sub is meant more for a sealed box than a ported or b) it's a very expensive high wattage sub (which as discussed, the factorty charging system of this car would barely support)

I would reccommend to anybody with this car to have a ported box built, and have whoever is building the box to tune the ports as close to the fs property of the sub as possible without tuning below. somebody said there's a good 6 or 8 inches underneath the top when it's down inside the trunk area, so my reccommendation would be to port it into the cab of the car in that gap area. there's a fair bit of room that you can build the box upwards to get some decent space inside the box, in case your sub asks you for like 3-5 ft3.

most of you won't know what I'm talking about when I say fs. anybody who is building your box should know, if they don't, they shouldn't be building your box. also I would reccommend if you want such an sq setup, that you look for a sub that has a frequency response that goes at least as low as 35 Hz, that's a good place to start.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:39 pm 
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xtremeracing_63 wrote:
you guys ever thought of going solobaric? i had a 10" kicker L7 in my metro and it sounded amazing... not sure if if would sound as good in a vert, you guys are more the experts on how well they will sound, i was just throwing that out there.


L7's are an spl sub. they sound alright, but they can be quite noisy. very loud. not worth it for a vert because of the power demand. unless you've done up your alternator, good luck with turning up an L7, it'll cut right out.

honestly for this car it's a good idea to stick with a mid level sub. maybe spend 2-250 on a sub and build a really good box for it and pair it up properly with a good amp that is no less efficient than a class a/b, roughly 50% efficient. to go by fuse rating is pretty accurate. keep in mind what your alternator puts out and then look for an amp with a fuse rating that definitely doesn't exceed it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:46 pm 
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150dollarcar wrote:
you guys are talking about prefab boxes like they're totally useless.


Being that the majority of them are tuned above 40Hz they are.


150dollarcar wrote:
Most of you won't know what I'm talking about when I say fs.


Theres more than a few members on here who know the ins and outs of TS parameters.

Theres also quite a lot of members who have ran very powerful amps in these cars (verts too) without the cutting out that you keep saying will happen. Can't make enough power to move a Solo before your amp cuts out? You've wired something wrong.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:29 pm 
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ya i meant the kicker solobaric. i had mine in my 3 cylinder metro and the alternator handled it just fine. i could crank it and it never cut out. it actually dimmed the headlights about as much as my truck did. again im not tryin to pretend i know anything about the technical things of sound systems i was just throwing the solobaric subs out there for easy ways to be loud.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:15 pm 
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alright maybe cutting out is a little dramatic 600 rms isn't gonna be enough to cut the amps out completely, but of course you'll get the dimming and you'll notice your heater is blowing softer and stuff like that.

however in systems with extreme current draw, you can easily cut the amps right out because the power isn't there to supply it. basically the amps will cut out before the car will decide to stall. I've seen it happen. and before i'm told I did something wrong I'll tell you it wasn't my system and I didn't install it, and furthermore the guy that did it is an excellent installer.

I wasn't calling anybody dumb or anything like that by mentioning that some of us aren't gonna know what fs means, but I think I said exactly what I meant and the only thing I said which may need a little defense would be the cutting out bit.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:10 pm 
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I've run 4000W out of a Swift with factory electrical (upgraded battery/wiring) and it didn't cut out on 0db since waves. You'll have to drop your voltage down quite a bit before the amp shuts down. In the case of the 4kw system voltage dropped down to around 11V and it still didn't shut down...that happened at 10V. When it ran its normal system of "only" 2500W voltage never dipped down below 13.0V a very loud volume (the kind that you can't drive because your vision is so blurred and you can't breath properly) and just over 12.5V at full volume. Richard ran 3400W off his vert with no troubles either and there are a handful of guys running 1000W+ with no issues.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:16 pm 
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well the car I'm talking about had 4 L710's and ran only the subs at 2400rms. also ran focal 4" k2p comps and kicker ssmb8 midbass in the doors in an 03 or so sentra se-r with factory electrical system except for having a single yellow top rather than whatever other battery from canadian tire would fit. it was actually a gorgeous sounding system. just cut right out when the subs kicked in at high volumes.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:26 pm 
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Doesn't seem right. I ran 2500W to a pair of 15's and near 500W to the fronts. Richard ran 2800W IIRC to his subs. I have a Scion now thats running around 1000W to the subs and it barely drops the voltage below 14.5V. Sentra should have a beefier alt and handle 2400W no problem without amps cutting out. The lights will dim no doubt but the amps shouldn't shut down unless their so tightly regulated that anything under 12.5V causes a shutdown...and I haven't seen an amp shutdown that high in my life.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:32 pm 
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well then maybe it was the amps. it could be that they're regulated to shut down as some sort of a protection. they were all kicker amps. I can't remember what series. I definitely don't think they were ss series.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:33 pm 
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he never turned it up louder than he could listen to it at. like he did that one time to show us. it was funny. standing in the bay with it turned up BEFORE it shut down we could actually feel the concrete floor vibrating.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:40 pm 
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actually now that I think about it, I know exactly why it did that. the car wasn't running, so there wasn't any charging at the time, so of course it's drawing a lot more than supply voltage and could cut out momentarily quite easily. it was a while back, like 2 or 3 years ago, I guess I should stop talking about systems cutting out because it's not gonna happen when the car's running. ah well. tack one more on for me being an idiot. :P


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