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 Post subject: dual 12" subs to much?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:02 am 
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Location: penticton, bc, canada
well i have 2 cadence 12" 4 ohm subs that i have had for about a year now. they have NEVER been used because ive been looking for a good amp to run them and am wondering if i should keep the subs and get 2 smaller boxes and continue to shop for an amp or just sell the subs with box and spend money on some other subs (i so wished i bought the 2 ohm ones instead)

i only would need at most a 10" sub for this car as im not even running more then 5" speakers right now and its loud.
ive got a friend willing to pay $200 CND for them which is about what i paid for them new.

so is there even an amp out there that can power these subs for a reasonable price? (needs 300W RMS per sub at 4ohms)

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2006 YZF600 screamer. my summer toy/daily driver.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:24 am 
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You just need an amp that'll do between 300 and 600 watts at 2 ohms. Shouldn't be too hard to find as 99% of all sub amps give their most power at 2 ohms.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:34 am 
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the subs are 4 ohm though. from how i grasp the ohms is i need 300 per sub at 4 ohms to power them correctly

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2006 YZF600 screamer. my summer toy/daily driver.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:19 am 
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Yes but when you wire them together you will end up with an impedance of 2 or 8 ohms. Since most amps don't put much power out at 8 ohms 2 ohms is your best option. Wire the two subs positive to positive and negative to negative and then to your amp. While the subs are capable of 300W each you don't need to give them that much power to make them work right. Depends on how much volume your after. I would say 300W to the pair as a bare minimum, 600W will be in their operating range and get you the most volume from them.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:23 am 
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Location: penticton, bc, canada
so if i connect the 2 4 ohm subs in parralle ill get a 2 ohm load correct?

so what amount of watts (RMS) would i need to run the 2 subs at 2 ohms?

would the suspension of the mk2 firefly/swifts take dual 12" subs with a 3/4 MDF box? also what would it be sounding like?

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1990 sidekick 3" lift 31" mt's
2006 YZF600 screamer. my summer toy/daily driver.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:46 am 
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Yes. Two 4 ohm subs in parallel will give you a 2 ohm load. As for the sounds a lot of it depends on the enclosure design. Suspension wise I couldn't tell you. The back will likely drop a bit from the weight though. What subs do you have? I told you about amplifier power already...300W min and 600W to get them in there operating range.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:03 am 
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Location: penticton, bc, canada
http://www.cadencestore.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=26&idproduct=75
thats my 2 subs. i picked them up for $50 bucks each (sounded like a good price at the time) at a local car audio shop.

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/products/ListProduct.aspx?k1=2&k2=42&k3=155&pr=2718 dont know if the 500W is a RMS rating or a max rating though on that amp

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10072165&catid=20103
i know its xplod but its a good price (could have picked one up a few months ago for $149 but thought twice)

so im looking for 600-700 RMS at 2 ohms? and not excced 1400W max? (i want to get these subs at there sweet points if i can)

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1990 faded red turbo firefly project car
1990 sidekick 3" lift 31" mt's
2006 YZF600 screamer. my summer toy/daily driver.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:22 am 
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Get the Kenwood amp and you should be just fine. The difference in output between 500 and 700 watts is imperceptable. DON'T BUY SONY

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:54 pm 
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Location: penticton, bc, canada
well i bought the kenwood amp from A&B sound (bestbuy was sold out and i got a lower price from ab because it had no box) only thing missing is a bracket to mount the boost remote switch.
i went and threw the subs in the car and it didnt lower it all that much but when i went to put the amp on the box (no where else to mount it as i have to be able to remove the subs from time to time) and it wont fit (there 2 connectors where you mount the wires for the subs to that are just in the way for the amp to fit (amp needs 1.5" MORE to fit on the box so im either going to mount it overtop of the connectors on standoffs or im going to fab up a peice to raise the top of the box (although it wouldnt look right as the box is carpeted)

i also have some questions on guage of wire for everything.
the manual says to use 8awg or better (probly gonna go more as it isnt that expensive as long as it doesnt have to be "speaker wire" or whatever that big red/blue/clear wiring is called, can i just use battery cable wire or even welding wire (2 or 0 guage)?)

how should i mount it to my battery? theres some crappy connectors on there right now so i dont mind swapping them. im also gonna be swapping over the "big 3" wires with some better wire anyway because im already gonna be running wire.

also im gonna need to fix my antenna wire wire (its broken where it connects to the back of the headunit) is there a connector i can buy to replace the stock end or will i need a whole new antenna wire?
also gonna need to redo the wiring for the radio (all twisted and taped) gonna solder it all and heatshrink it.

so far my dad thinks im nuts for throwing this all into a firefly but its something to do and i had the subs sitting in my garage for a year and i half, so they are finally gonna get used for something.

he has wondered why i even bought new wiper blades for it (old wipers smeared the water instead of clearing it from the windows) its now got new ones on a cracked window (it has to be replaced real soon)

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1990 faded red turbo firefly project car
1990 sidekick 3" lift 31" mt's
2006 YZF600 screamer. my summer toy/daily driver.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:40 pm 
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Use minimum 4AWG wire. If you want to upgrade later you'll likely need thicker than 8AWG. 0AWG is cheap when its bought as welding cable :P.

You can get battery clamps that accept more wire. They have them at most audio shops.

The amp would likely fit under one of your seats...out of the way and harder to steal ;).

You may be able to use a piece of another antenna wire and solder it on but you will lose a bit of reception..wether or not it will be noticable is questionable...depends on your soldering skills. New antenna might cost you $20...I'd just replace it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:18 am 
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Location: penticton, bc, canada
id really love to not have to replace the entire antenna but i dont know if i can get just the connector.

ill be working on getting it all mounted tomorrow after school. ill be bolting the sub box and everything down to the spare tire cover so youll have to yank the entire rear floor piece out to steal the amp and subs. (plus ill be putting in an alarm system in sometime later) ive got some of the components for an alarm already (siren, blinking light (it came installed in car), and i think some door sensors) an alarm was installed previously in the car.

ill be buying some better battery connectors and alot of 4awg wire (20 feet should do right?) and what should i get for RCA cable? also what should i get for the fuse? (would a basic large fuse work or do i have to get one of the fancy style stereo ones?)

what else should i get? i know i need alot of crimp ring connectors (should i really solder them and get the gold ones or will the copper ones work ok?)

ill have to get some larger solder as i only have 0.030" right now (50/50 flux core?) and a butane torch.

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1990 faded red turbo firefly project car
1990 sidekick 3" lift 31" mt's
2006 YZF600 screamer. my summer toy/daily driver.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:10 am 
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I think 20' will be fine if your grounding to the chassis and not expecting to do two seperate runs to the back of the car. Copper works...I prefer gold becasue it doesn't corrode. Doesn't need to be soldered if you can crimp them properly...its just an extra measure I take. You shouldn't need too many. Rosin core is fine or you can use paste. matter of preference really. I like paste for thich wire...rosin for thinner stuff. You can cut the end off of an old antenna and solder it to yours. Don't get dollar store RCA's but you don't need to spend hundreds either. I have a $20 cable on my sub amp and it works fine. May as well get a proper fuse (made for car audio) so that you can connect it to the 4 gauge without problems. AGU works fine...get ANL if you plan on going crazy with the system someday.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:12 pm 
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Location: penticton, bc, canada
picked everything up today (got 14 foot rca's, and 17 feet of 4 awg as im replacing the grounds as well)

should i really replace the alternator one to (its 4 guage already i think)
im replacing the ground wires anyway as one is nicked and is bare in some spots.

i have the complete rear section of the trim out including the bottom half of the rear seats i also have the door sill plates removed and ready to go.

i tried to solder up the wires today but couldnt get the wires hot enough for the solder to melt in (using a butane torch) so i think im gonna try some paste and see if that works. if not ill just crimp and heatshrink them.

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1990 faded red turbo firefly project car
1990 sidekick 3" lift 31" mt's
2006 YZF600 screamer. my summer toy/daily driver.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:05 pm 
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King of Pompous
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If your soldering the 4 gauge you need to crimp it first. If you manage to solder it well and then try to crimp it you will never get as secure a crimp as if you crimped it first and then soldered. I use a propane torch to do it. Might not get enough heat from the butane...not 100% sure as I've never used one.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:29 pm 
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Location: penticton, bc, canada
well ive got the tranny ground and body ground all done up (just crimped, i gave up on soldering them)

it looks massive compaired to the dinky stock ones and i am having to wait till tomorrow at the earliest to do the rest (gotta keep it a DD)

i think ive found a good grommet to get the wire through (main wiring harness grommet) but i dont know if theres another one somewhere im not seeing thats easier to use

my main concern right now is how i can keep the subs from slidding around under "spirited" driving.


oh and i got to shave some weight, while removing the rear trim i found 2 oldschool 6" speakers hidden behind the door and infront of the wheelwells that werent hooked up.

so for the next little while ive got a stripped out race car interior :D

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1990 faded red turbo firefly project car
1990 sidekick 3" lift 31" mt's
2006 YZF600 screamer. my summer toy/daily driver.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:58 am 
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King of Pompous
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You can pass a chunk of 0 gauge through the factory grommet with little trouble so I've never looked for another entry point. You can use little "L" brackets to help hold from sliding.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:32 am 
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Location: penticton, bc, canada
ive got the major part done, rewired the deck (previous owner twisted and taped the wires) they are now soldered and heatshrinked, i also ran the amp on/off wire from the radio to the rear down the drivers side and the RCA cables down the passanger side. (they are double shielded silver wires (bassworxs) i got the 14' ones and looks to be a bit long (a few feet)

all thats left is the sub box mounting (gonna make up a new floor peice (no more cardboard fibreboard cover for the spare tire) gonna do up a 1/2 ply version and mount some L brackets to it that the box will sit inside and will give the option of screwing the box down

the other thing left is the main power wire from the battery back and the alternator wire (should i do it or not? its got other wires that are tied with it plus its behind the engine hidden by the intake)

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1990 faded red turbo firefly project car
1990 sidekick 3" lift 31" mt's
2006 YZF600 screamer. my summer toy/daily driver.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:44 am 
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Alternator is up to you. If you do it don't remove the other wires...the idea is to add the piece of 4 gauge to them and have a direct run to the battery. Entirely up to you.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:40 pm 
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Location: penticton, bc, canada
got the main wire all done with the interior all back in. just have the amp ground and the mounting of the box to do. im wondering where a good chassis ground is in the rear of one of these cars is or do i have to drill a hole and use a screw?

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1990 sidekick 3" lift 31" mt's
2006 YZF600 screamer. my summer toy/daily driver.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:11 am 
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I grounded my amp to the bracket that holds the jack in place. IIRC there is already a hole there that you can use.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:16 am 
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Location: penticton, bc, canada
cool. im gonna have to pull some panels back out as i forgot to run the remote bass boost wire to upfront. but other then that its all looking stock

my radio reception is crap now though because of the broken connector.
how the heck can i solder in another antenna wire? (i know theres the inner single strand, then a plastic tube with a metal jacket around that with the protective coating on that) is there somewhere where i can buy just the connector or do i have to splice on another antenna wire?

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1990 faded red turbo firefly project car
1990 sidekick 3" lift 31" mt's
2006 YZF600 screamer. my summer toy/daily driver.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:27 am 
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You might find a connector somewhere...IDK though becasue I've never spliced one...always just replaced. IIRC you lose 3db of reception for every splice.

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