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 Post subject: Newb Speaker Question.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:48 pm 
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I like rock music, it's the most predominantly played type of tune in my car. So decent bass is nice, but it doesn't need that gut punch that rap/hip hop needs. That and I need my trunk, so no subs for me.

I'm trying to decide between going between the two setups, I have listed.

Option 1: "Boston Acoustic S65RC" x4

Option 2: "JBL Power P552" x4

So what do you guys think. I know the Bostons will require more work to get put in, but I've heard alot of good things about them. Also alot of good things about JBL. But... No one sells JBL within a 50km radius of me, and after that, it's all special order this and special order that. Although they are a straight bolt up, so nice easy, and on the spec sheet look better.

I'm currently running a JVC headunit with 20watts rms per channel and I'm running the old faithful Blaupunkt PCx542 in the 4 ports, all wired up some monster cable.

So no huge rush, the sound I get right now is pretty decent. So I want to get all the bang for my buck, and not miss out on something, because I didn't ask.

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J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:55 pm 
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Do you have a budget to work in so that we may recommned other speakers that may work better? Are you willing to cut the door to fit a 6.5" speaker in the front? A small sub would make a WORLD of difference for rock music. A small 8" sub would give you a little punch and a good 6.5" or a really good 5.25" would ground it out really nicely. Why not save a bit of money and leave the punkts in the rear and just upgrade the fronts to something better?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:01 am 
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Well originally the budget was to try and keep in under 400.00

I know this kinda cuts out the whole amp equation. But I can maybe stretch the budget a few hundred more. Seems to go further when you can do it yourself. Also, I can't really afford to lose my trunk so...

I was told that I should try and keep the speakers all about the same class and make when doing it up. How much of a side effect would there be to keeping the punkts in the back with higher end hardware in the front?

Assuming I'm not going to have to fab to much(no fibreglassing right now), I'd be willing to chop in 6.5" speakers. Sort of why the Boston S65RC's are up there.

What would you suggest be done?

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My cars:

J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:14 am 
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Oops...read the Bostons wrong and assumed they were a 5.25". Well I'm a strong believer in no rear speakers at all. Now what i used to do at the shop was recommned upgrading the speakers that were closest to you first and then later on upgrade the rears. Idealy you do want to "timbre match" the speakers so that they all sound as similar as possible. Thats why its recomended to upgrade them all at the same time. What a lot of people don't realize is that the "punch" or "snap" you get from drums is largely a function of your midbass drivers. the resounding thump that completes the beat is from the sub. Thats why I would try to get a 6.5" in there. How hard it is to fit them I don't know...I didn't catch what car you had ;). I know you can shoehorn them into the MKII doors with a sawzall and careful cutting. I'll be doing pods for mine but you could use a simple piece of 3/4" MDF to make a ring to hold the mid out a touch and end any possible contact with the window mechanism. Subs don't have to take up a lot of space. I usualy tell people to get a decent bass tub that you can remove quickly. The 6.5" ones do a good job but I always recommend the 8" versions. Now if you have a critical ear I'll tell you straight up the tubes aren't reference by any stretch of the imagination but they do round out the system nicely. You can get them cheap these days and they have amps built in...just make sure you don't get a passive or slave unit as they won't have an amp.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:15 am 
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OK...just saw your sig. I haven't seen the inside door of a 98 Swift. If it has 4" factory speakers though I'm sure there is a way to mount a 6.5 in there if not then at least a 5.25. I'll try to find some pics of a door panel (or search and there may be a member that has already done this in a 98) to get a better idea of what works.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:32 am 
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m wrote:
OK...just saw your sig. I haven't seen the inside door of a 98 Swift. If it has 4" factory speakers though I'm sure there is a way to mount a 6.5 in there if not then at least a 5.25. I'll try to find some pics of a door panel (or search and there may be a member that has already done this in a 98) to get a better idea of what works.


The Punkts are 5.25" and are a straight bolt onto the plastic using the stock grills, and screws. They were installed in the front by the previous owner.

According to the specs there top mount depth is 2 1/16". The butt end just pushes through the rubber sound insulation, and into a whole in the door that is about 4" square. I'm going off of memory that is a few weeks old, and all. So excuse any errors.

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My cars:

J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:03 am 
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I was at the wrecker today, and pulled apart the inside of a mk5, there is no way for the rear speaker to latch to the plastic, so it has to be done by mounting the speakers directly to the body or via a bracket.

What I'm thinking is, go with a set of 5.25's in the the front and a set of 6.5's in the rear. Figure out how to wire in a small 4 channel amp. Then if it needs the boost from a sub. I'll figure out how to wire a sub into the system. Upgrade from the S series of Boston and go to the SX series with their superior everything. lol

Oh and as for a sub, a neat little system I was thinking about would be if you are like me and lack the tint on the windows or don't do pitch black tint is. Have your sub, mounted in the trunk area, tied to it's amp(internal or not), with a short straight shot to a deep cycle battery. On boats, those batts run stereo's all day long with a host of other stuff pulling off of them. To recharge the system, use one of those solar trickle chargers, so all day long it rebuilds the charge.

Would be a tidy sub setup assuming you aren't going for kick your teeth out power, and your head unit has a sub control line. So you can limit the amount of wires, and the wear on your main power system(alt + battery + saving fuel/upping performance(alt won't have to spin as hard to compensate for the draw))

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My cars:

J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:44 am 
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If your system is small enough to run off a deep cycle its small enough to run off the factory alternator without harming it ;). If your only gonna use something like a small 200W amp then just run some 8 gauge cable to the back and wire it to the amp. The amp works harder the lower the voltage is anyways so running it off a battery with no charger will possibly shorten its life. If you don't need a lot of sub power go for a small 8" sub. It can be in a tube or you can make your own enclosure and mount it wherever you want to. There are so many good 8 inchers out there that you should be able to find something that fits your needs.

IMO the 6.5's should be up front and the 5.25 should be in the rear. Obviously if it isn't possible then you have to make compromises but I always recommened putting the biggest speaker you can up front where the main listener will be. Rears should be setup as rear fill.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:38 pm 
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In my 98 I have 6.5's in the doors (which fit fine), and in the side panels in the rear seat area, 6.5 components.
It sounds great, and fit is no issue.
For straightforward rock, if your using 6.5's, and you need a subwoofer, IMO, you're using the wrong 6.5's.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:50 pm 
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suprf1y wrote:
For straightforward rock, if your using 6.5's, and you need a subwoofer, IMO, you're using the wrong 6.5's.



Then I want to hear your 6.5's reproduce a kick drum (centered at 40Hz) at a realistic volume :P.


Of course this begs the question...what are the right 6.5's? I know you can get a 6.5" driver to hit low...but in a car its not easy when they are stuck in the doors and you won't find a cheap one that does it with any kind of efficiency. That being said while I agree that you don't need the subwoofer you won't get near full spectrum sound with just some 6.5's in the front and rear doors. What I think it comes down to is what you want from the sound. There are millions of cars on the road with OEM sound that suits people just fine. For others a speaker upgrade is all it takes...for other things need to go much further.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:27 pm 
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Just the response I was expecting :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:35 pm 
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suprf1y wrote:
Just the response I was expecting :wink:


So which speakers do you have?

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My cars:

J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:54 pm 
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6.5" Infinity reference in the front, and Alpine 6.5" components in the back.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:32 pm 
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suprf1y wrote:
6.5" Infinity reference in the front, and Alpine 6.5" components in the back.


Hmm... nice setup. :)

_________________
My cars:

J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:48 pm 
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Hello everyone,

My first post was to ask for advice, now my second is to give some.. :)

My last car was a 93 Infiniti G20, the way I put a sub in the trunk without taking up a lot of room was to build a custom box that fit right up against the rear seat and was tall and wide but not very deep. The sub was right up against the seat and fired through it. That reduced the sound level some but I had more than enough bass anyway.

With a ten inch Rockford Fosgate sub I got at the flea market and an Orion Cobalt 230 amp I picked up at a pawn shop the whole thing worked very nicely for the classic rock I usually listen to.

I used a 30 w/ch 4ch CD unit to power the speakers and the Orion amp in bridged mode to power the sub. With an adjustable electronic crossover I picked up at the flea market again (did I mention that I'm seriously cheap?) the whole thing cost me under $100 and could probably be duplicated with new components for under $200 if you shop wisely.

One point on amplifier power, due to the way the ear responds to sound, it takes ten times the power to get twice as loud to your ear. Just doubling the amp power is a noticeable but not dramatic increase in loudness.

In other words, if you can get a 100 watt amp for a whole lot less than a 200 watt one, you won't pay much of a penalty in volume for having half the power.

In a Nissan pickup I had about ten years ago, I made a custom ported sub box to hold a Rat Shack 6.5 " DVC sub. The box was made in a wedge shape to fit on the passenger side floor in such a manner that there was still room for the passenger to put his feet and legs in a comfortable position. I used Blaubox to design the enclosure and the port. Using my computer as both a signal source and a spectrum analyzer I tuned the port so as to get the maximum response.

Against everyone's advice I tried wiring the little DVC sub to the rear channels of my Alpine 4ch cassette receiver. It worked like a charm in the small cab of a standard Nissan pickup..


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:37 am 
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Soliton wrote:
Hello everyone,

My first post was to...blah blah blah...standard Nissan pickup..



This was actualy nice for a change. The last few "Audio Engineers/Wizards/Fabricators" have all jumped on with some sort of hollier than though attitude in here (much to my amuzement it seems) and lasted through an argument or two before leaving here and not coming back. I seriously thought this was going to be another one of those times but it shows no typical "you don't know what your talking about" attitude towards anybody :thumb2:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:55 am 
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Wow, thanks for the compliment m. :)

I have to admit that I like to argue but I've been online since before there was an internet and I learned long ago that being arrogant and abusive gets you nowhere.

An amazing amount of the time it's not what you say so much as how you say it.

It's far more effective to say "I think you might be mistaken and here's why" than "you don't know what you're talking about".

I'm certainly no expert on car audio but I have been an audiophile and amateur recording engineer for 39 years now.. Started out with an Akai cross field reel to reel tape deck and now I use an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 to rip my extensive vinyl collection to my hard drive and DVD-ROMS.

I enjoy helping people out, you might say that I'm "paying it forward" for all the times people have helped me out.

Anyhoo.. Thanks again for the warm welcome and I hope to be helpful more in the future.

Peace,

Jon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:03 pm 
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I thought maybe someone might like to see the subs I was talking about.

Here you go:

First is the trunk sub for my G20:

Image

I misspoke before, it's a 12" Rockford Fosgate sub..


Next is the passenger floor sub for my Nissan PU..


Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:19 pm 
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Quote:
The last few "Audio Engineers/Wizards/Fabricators" have all jumped on with some sort of hollier than though attitude in here (much to my amuzement it seems) and lasted through an argument or two before leaving here and not coming back.


No, I'm still here :-P

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:36 pm 
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I think you know the ones I'm talking about :P.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:21 am 
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[quote="Soliton"]Hello everyone,

In other words, if you can get a 100 watt amp for a whole lot less than a 200 watt one, you won't pay much of a penalty in volume for having half the power.quote]

I agree that you wouldn't have all that much of a drop in volume however you can damage the sub by trying to force a high volume level without the proper amount of power. Just as you can blow a speaker with too much power you can do the same with not enough.


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