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 Post subject: sub position
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:41 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Ont
which way would be the best way for the subs to fire. should i have them firing towards the hatch, back seat or upwards. im going to be using 2-12" pioneer premier subs. its going in a 2000 suzuki swift.

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:51 pm 
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where ever you like that deep low down sound will travel it doesn't matter

i'm considering mounting a 8 inch in the spare wheel to keep all the boot space!!

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:37 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Ont
thats what i was thinking that the bass will go every direction no matter how its mounted i just wasnt to sure. ill have to test it out with my single 10" then i can start to design my box for the 2-12" premiers.

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:39 pm 
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Bass is omni-directional, so it doesn't matter.

swiftly18 have you taken a look at the MCM long throw 8" subs. They work great and are only about $35 US each.

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:26 pm 
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I highly recommend pointing the speakers toward the hatch. In my experience, all speakers project waves and you have to direct them so that the waves "bounce" in optimal directions when dealing with a hatchback vehicle. If the box was in an enclosed trunk then the direction does not matter much unless you drop down a folding seat to let the bass push out of the trunk better.

If you point the box toward the back of the vehicle, the soundwaves can/will reflect off the hatch and head toward the front cabin with better clarity. If you point the Subs upward then the waves sometimes will just bounce back at the speakers and cancel out some frequencies. If you point the subs to the front of the car, then the rear seats will be too much in the way unless you fold them down. The difference is not huge, but i encourage to set the box up in the car and sound test the different angles before mounting it in any permanent way.

It is just my personal opinion, but I like pointing the subs to the rear because the bass response sounds fuller and cleaner.


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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:36 pm 
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You can measure the differences in output based on where a sub is mounted so it definetly can make a difference where its mounted. The bass is omnidirectional but loading it differently based on its position can increase/decrease phase issues which will augment/reduce clarity, output, and cancellation. Idealy you would test out your sub in different positions but in reality this isn't usualy possible. I've done a ton of hatch installs and facing up or back is usaly the safest bet. Facing forward can resduce some distortion but it also cuts off some of the output (because there is a seat in front of the sub) that you will see.

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 8:18 pm 
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i've noticed they work the best pointing back. up works good too. forward doesn't work too well.
just make sure you have atleast about 4" between the sub and the back.

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:37 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Ont
so ive been playing around with my 10" pioneer sub and i figured im going to face the subs towards the hatch of the car. thats the way i got my 10" right now and it sounds the best that way. so now time to start designing the box for them.

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:16 pm 
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in terms of 'idontgiveashitiwantbass' pointing them back but as close as possible (usually not less than 3-4" though) will result in the loudest,feeliest bass. facing them up sounds GREAT if youve got alot of sub and dont need the extra oomph of pushing them towards the rear of the vehicle. Never have I experienced a hatchback that sounded good with subs facing towards the cabin.

the difference is quite obvious actually, itll rattle significantly less if you point them up too

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:17 pm 
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swift13b wrote:
in terms of 'idontgiveashitiwantbass' pointing them back but as close as possible (usually not less than 3-4" though) will result in the loudest,feeliest bass.


In some cars maybe...but not all. I've been in hundreds of vehicles and some work better facing otherways than back. Look up CRX box and you'll see plans for a proven hatchback enclosure that has subs firing up towards the roof. Different vehicles have different accoustics. I've had subs point in every direction in my Swifts and each one of them was ridiculously loud and musical. JSwift has an enclosure facing the roof and its ridiculously loud. Face them forward and pull the back seat down and it can be a lot louder than pointing them backwards. Just depends on the accoustics of the vehicle your building in.

swift13b wrote:
Never have I experienced a hatchback that sounded good with subs facing towards the cabin.


Its probably safe to say you haven't sat in enough well built cars yet. There are a ton of IASCA SQ competitors that have subs facing forward. Some even have them in the front of the car built into the dash. There is a lot of hatchbacks that are facing the subs to the roof instead of back. Very good results. Tony aka LowBass who used to peruse the forum was an IASCA SQ competitor with his sub facing the roof as well. In my ext cab truck facing the sub towards the passenger side (with the enclosure mounted behind the drivers front seat) sounded great. To the roof sounded like ass. Passenger side pointed to the driver sounded OK...but not as good as behind the drivers seat. Again...different car different accoustics. A LOT of cars sound better towards the back (and I installed dozens facing backwards in the shop) but you can't just make a blanket statement that its a rule set in stone.

swift13b wrote:
the difference is quite obvious actually, itll rattle significantly less if you point them up too


The rattling is lessened more because the sub isn't pounding against the back of the car and not because its not as loud in the cabin. Don't underestimate the mechanical forces that exists 4" (and more) in front of a subwoofer.

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:24 pm 
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I have had a small army of sub and amps set ups in mine. The way I always got the best sound was firing up at the very back. I could always tell a noticeable difference when they were faced back or forward. I tried it on the meter to and got better results with them firing up. My car could be a weirdo but it always worked out that way for me.

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:20 am 
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m wrote:
swift13b wrote:
in terms of 'idontgiveashitiwantbass' pointing them back but as close as possible (usually not less than 3-4" though) will result in the loudest,feeliest bass.


In some cars maybe...but not all. I've been in hundreds of vehicles and some work better facing otherways than back. Look up CRX box and you'll see plans for a proven hatchback enclosure that has subs firing up towards the roof. Different vehicles have different accoustics. I've had subs point in every direction in my Swifts and each one of them was ridiculously loud and musical. JSwift has an enclosure facing the roof and its ridiculously loud. Face them forward and pull the back seat down and it can be a lot louder than pointing them backwards. Just depends on the accoustics of the vehicle your building in.
just because ive never actually heard one that sounded good like this (been to a fair amount of shows, and I get around) im going to have to disagree, up and back is the only 2 ways to face them, you just dont get the loading you do if you have to face them forward
Quote:

swift13b wrote:
Never have I experienced a hatchback that sounded good with subs facing towards the cabin.


Its probably safe to say you haven't sat in enough well built cars yet. There are a ton of IASCA SQ competitors that have subs facing forward. Some even have them in the front of the car built into the dash. There is a lot of hatchbacks that are facing the subs to the roof instead of back. Very good results. Tony aka LowBass who used to peruse the forum was an IASCA SQ competitor with his sub facing the roof as well. In my ext cab truck facing the sub towards the passenger side (with the enclosure mounted behind the drivers front seat) sounded great. To the roof sounded like ass. Passenger side pointed to the driver sounded OK...but not as good as behind the drivers seat. Again...different car different accoustics. A LOT of cars sound better towards the back (and I installed dozens facing backwards in the shop) but you can't just make a blanket statement that its a rule set in stone.
didnt mean to make it sound like a blanket statement, but still, going back to the loading of the sound wave, yeah the car is a small chamber to begin with, but ive never seen ONE instance where you will NOT gain a few db's facing them up or back compared to facing them forward. the intense SQ comps are different though, and admittedly I havent spent enough time around them, but unless you got a TON OF SUB theres just no justifying spraying them forwards.
Quote:
swift13b wrote:
the difference is quite obvious actually, itll rattle significantly less if you point them up too


The rattling is lessened more because the sub isn't pounding against the back of the car and not because its not as loud in the cabin. Don't underestimate the mechanical forces that exists 4" (and more) in front of a subwoofer.

and yeah, obviously its because its not mashing the body from that close.

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:19 pm 
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swift13b wrote:
just because ive never actually heard one that sounded good like this (been to a fair amount of shows, and I get around) im going to have to disagree, up and back is the only 2 ways to face them, you just dont get the loading you do if you have to face them forward[quote



Thats fine but....because I have heard many that sound good facing forward I will agree to disagree with you. Going back a few years when it wasn't the norm to have subwoofers mounted in the footwells many competitors on the pro level were pointing them forward just fine. Jim Adams not only pointed them forward but they were firing through the seat back of his firebird and he still cleaned up on awards. He could have mounted tham up or back but he didn't choose to for a reason. There were others but the install on Jim's car stands out in my memory. In other news I just squeezed a pair of 18's in a Scion xB yesterday and they sounded like ass facing backwards good facing up and so so facing forward with the seat down.


I'm not saying your wrong BTW but just adding another point of view. Just for fun...you meantion loading because of subs facing the roof or back....what about the loading you get from a walled SPL system where the drivers have to all face forward :P.

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 Post subject: Re: sub position
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:26 pm 
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ok well I was thinking we were relating everything to the sprint/swift this was going in. im not going to disagree with you disagreeing, infact, ill just agree and leave it at that

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