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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:56 pm 
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Location: Abbotsford, BC
details: 2000 firefly, 4 dr
according to my service manual for 2000 geo metro page 6-284
maximum generator ampacity of 55A.

my goals for my sound system is to have a head unit that can power mid-ranges for the two front door speakers. i have decided that putting in rear mid-ranges will be futile because with a subwoofer box directly under them in the trunk, they would just get pushed around with the air moving from the sub and just fight against it wasting their potential.

this may sound obvious, but i checked the faq section and nothing was there to help. in the future i plan on setting up a 500W mono amp with 2-12s . i can handle hooking up the head unit and front speakers, but i don't know where i can find connections from which to give power to my amp. ie where can i connect the wires from the interior fuse block ? i have the dashboard out so finding wires should not be a problem.

anyways, i calculated the amps (thinking about need 550 watts for the sub at 12V) which would draw 45A. i would then need a 50A fuse so that i would get enough power to the subs so that the amps' fuse would open before the supply power fuse opens. checking the cable ampacities for single conductors in free air with ambient temperature of 30*C, I would need a number 10 copper rated at 55A with 90*C rated insulation.

if my amp was loaded fully, which it is designed to (high quality polk momo amp) this only leaves 10A for the rest of the vehicle. will this be enough or am i going to be prematurely wearing things out ?

i would also need the amp remote power signal to run with the one from the head unit - this is so everything shuts off with the key in off but turns on with ACC.

anyone done this before, with the Mk3 if they could give me pics, advice etc. i don't know what to do, as this will be my first car stereo installation.

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1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


Last edited by 1995Firefly4dr on Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:04 pm 
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Location: Abbotsford, BC
if i get good enough instructions i can turn this into a sort-of guide with pictures with my camera - like step-by-step as I go along, etc.

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1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:18 am 
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To draw that much juice would prematurely wear out the armatures in the alternator and your battery would not charge fully. You could: 1) wind a more powerful alternator (65-75a) 2) Capacitor-help manage the draw.

If you run it in its present config you would notice the headlights dimming and the ammeter (if equipped) would show a drain.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:58 am 
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Depends on your listening habits too. If its not always cranked you won't always be drawing the amps max current. Daily listening (at normal levels) won't cause too much of a drain. Run a peice of 4 gauge (you can run 8 or 10 but your trying to keep voltage drop to a minimum) directly from the (+) battery terminal to the amp. Do not try to get power from the fuseblock...its not made for it. There should be a gromet in the firewall that you can squeeze your power cable through through and if not your going to have to drill a hole and add your own. DO NOT just run the wire through the hole without a gromet. Fuse the power cable as closely as possible to the battery. Look up the "Big 3" in the stereo section FAQ and do that to help with voltage as well. Run your ground from the amp to the chassis with the same thickness power wire as your positive. Run a piece of ground wire from the battery to the body as well. Do not waste your money on a cap it will do nothing for you. The remote turn on lead will come from your aftermarket head unit. Run signal wires (like your RCAs) down one side of the vehicle and power down the other.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:08 pm 
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m wrote:
Run a peice of 4 gauge (you can run 8 or 10 but your trying to keep voltage drop to a minimum) directly from the (+) battery terminal to the amp.


So do I just strip insulation and put conductor into the + connector ? I bought some new terminal connectors and they have bolt-on cable clamps.
With a 12ft cable run of 4GA that would give me 2.8% voltage drop... 6GA gives a 4.4% v.d. DC tolerance should have a target of 2% v.d. - is this correct ?
http://www.nooutage.com/vdrop.htm

m wrote:
Look up the "Big 3" in the stereo section FAQ and do that to help with voltage as well.

Yes, I read this awhile ago and figured out by reading it that I don't need to upgrade my ground cables because the MK3 (2000 firefly) had redesign. I also bought dielectric grease and electrical contact cleaner. Even though all my chassis and engine grounds were in perfect shape, I sanded mating surfaces and added dielectric grease.

m wrote:
Run your ground from the amp to the chassis with the same thickness power wire as your positive.

in the trunk there are no ground connections. do I have to drill a hole with a self-tapping screw and connect to the chassis with a loop connector ? There is a lot of metal in the trunk when everything is removed, where is the best place to put the connection.

m wrote:
Run a piece of ground wire from the battery to the body as well.

There is already one - it came with the car. I believe its either 6 or 8 GA. It goes directly from the neg terminal to the upper rad support with a bolt and loop connector.

m wrote:
Run signal wires (like your RCAs) down one side of the vehicle and power down the other.

If I buy monster cables that are shielded, then I don't need to do this. True or false ?


Some more things. Do I need to run an inline fuse for the amp feed, or can I just rely on the amp unit's fuses ?

Second opinion: if I am not satisfied with the system, ie headlights dim - are there compatible generators that fit into my car that have bigger outputs ? Like random thought does a suzuki tracker have one with larger output but fits to install it. Someone above mentioned getting alternator re-wound - I'm not a hardcore stereo enthusiast anyways, since this is my first car stereo system. Once i have it running off stock generator and test it, then I will make a decision whether it needs upgrade or not.

_________________
1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:06 pm 
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i'm currently running 3 amps totaling 1000 watts rms at full output powering 4 channels on the mains and 2 subs. i use one 12" run of 4 ga and a separate run of 8 ga each fused and connected to the battery anode (+.) i have an added run of 8 gauge from the alternator output lug directly to the battery anode and an additional length of 8 ga from the cathode to the chassis as a ground.

i use a high capacity battery, 1000 cca, no capacitor, and a 55 amp alternator replacing the vert's factory 35 amp alternator. my power is solid, my lights don't dim when i run the stereo, and i'd have to play at very high levels for an extended period for the system to significantly discharge the battery.

i doubt the veracity of the voltage drops you list for cable runs of under 25 feet. standard engineering for conductors specs I2R losses at 25 and 50 feet and 4 ga cable will handle nearly twice what your alternator puts out - i.e. less loss due to conductor resistance.

a single 500 watt amp, even if it has a true 500 watt rms output (and it would be a fairly expensive and substantially heat sinked unit) should be fairly easily adapted to your car and present no real problem to the electrical system unless you are running the stereo system at max along with windshield wipers, heater blower, and lights at the same time. even at that you'd be running a nominal constant loss on the charging system and a 1000 cca battery would run for a matter of hours at the discharge rate. common sense in that situation would dictate that you turn the radio down or off for a while.

you could also always install a voltmeter or ammeter to assist you in deciding when to turn the system off. i took a couple of hours of daytime driving in the country yesterday with my system playing quite loudly (to be heard over the wind noise on the highway) without any trouble at all. that was probably presenting an electrical load close to your 500 watt amp at full power output.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:55 pm 
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Location: Abbotsford, BC
thanks for those tips, although i'm still requesting answers for my questions above.

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1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:55 pm 
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Location: Saskatchewan
im putting 1100rms on an underdriven stock alt, seems to have been holding up, but I always turn off when I let the car cool (no turbo timer) so it gives another 2 mins or so to make sure it starts the next day. dims like a mofo

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:12 pm 
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If you wish to rewind your alternator for a custom output, these guys did a good job upgrading the stock unit in my Isuzu Trooper. It was refreshing to have someone knowledgeable answer the phone. I'm only running two 400-watt class D amps.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:51 pm 
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1995Firefly4dr wrote:
So do I just strip insulation and put conductor into the + connector ? I bought some new terminal connectors and they have bolt-on cable clamps.

Depends on the battery clamp. I use ring terminals for the ones on my Scion and the ones on my old Swift had provisions for bare cable to be used.

1995Firefly4dr wrote:
With a 12ft cable run of 4GA that would give me 2.8% voltage drop... 6GA gives a 4.4% v.d. DC tolerance should have a target of 2% v.d. - is this correct ?
http://www.nooutage.com/vdrop.htm

That seems like an aweful lot of voltage drop. Can't see how you would lose that much...I think the results may be suspect.

1995Firefly4dr wrote:
in the trunk there are no ground connections. do I have to drill a hole with a self-tapping screw and connect to the chassis with a loop connector ?

My preference if I have to drill is to use a nut and bolt instead of a self tapping screw. Usualy there is somewhere that you can use to bolt the ground...if not then yes, you will be drilling.

1995Firefly4dr wrote:
There is already one - it came with the car. I believe its either 6 or 8 GA. It goes directly from the neg terminal to the upper rad support with a bolt and loop connector.

Up to you to add it...I would just because the idea is to supplement the factory wiring. In the case of a smaller amp like yours its not 100% necesary but I tend to overkill whenever I can.

1995Firefly4dr wrote:
If I buy monster cables that are shielded, then I don't need to do this. True or false ?

While shielded cable help aleviate any problems you may have with induced noise its not always 100%. Keeping the signal cables as far away from the noisier sections of the car (like power wires and ECMs), and crossing them only at 90 degree angles if they need to, reduces your chances of picking up a hum that much more. IIRC IASCA regulations want your signal and power wires seperate too...and I've never seen a competitor run everything down one side.

1995Firefly4dr wrote:
Some more things. Do I need to run an inline fuse for the amp feed, or can I just rely on the amp unit's fuses ?

The amp's fuse is to protect the amp. The fuse on the power wire is to protect the car from burning down in the case of a short. Fuse your power cable as close to the battery as you can (needs to be within 18" max but shorter is always better).

1995Firefly4dr wrote:
Second opinion: if I am not satisfied with the system, ie headlights dim - are there compatible generators that fit into my car that have bigger outputs ? Like random thought does a suzuki tracker have one with larger output but fits to install it. Someone above mentioned getting alternator re-wound - I'm not a hardcore stereo enthusiast anyways, since this is my first car stereo system. Once i have it running off stock generator and test it, then I will make a decision whether it needs upgrade or not.

If you can get your alt rewound it won't be putting out that much more power. As i recal it any other alt will need a bracket made to fit it...somebody may have found a larger direct fit but I don't remember hearing about one. Rumour had it once that Bosch made a replacement alt for the Swift that was 85A. Now my experience is with MKII/MKIII cars and not MKIV/MKV like yours...might be more room to shove a bigger alt in those. Music is not constant in nature so even at full volume your amp won't be putting out a constant 500W. If your wiring/grounding points/power connections are good then you likely won't have any problems. t3 is running 1kw on his and I had close to 2kw in mine with no real issues under normal listening. You'd be surprised at how little wattage it takes to be loud.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:09 am 
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Location: Saskatchewan
but really, the alts are tough little bastards, you could always just buy an extra one and keep it on the shelf. if you ever do blow one (unlikely actually... you should be running a ton of power to destroy one) it takes all of 15mins to swap it out. probably alot cheaper

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1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:51 pm 
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Parts-train.com

89-99 Swift

W0133-1603771

75A Denso Remanufactured Altenator.

$151.00

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J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:30 pm 
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Well I have my stereo 'mock up' installed tonight and the subs are very bass. But I noticed that the lights dim. The only lights that were on were the airbag light on the instrument cluster (my dash-b is apart atm) the trunk light and the dome light and they all dimmed when my bass woofer was activated with the car running. But, I think I did a great job with my ground connection and would make 'm' quite proud when I upload the images.

Oh yes, later on I plan on buying a 'clamp meter' so I can measure the ampacities my amp is consuming. This would be useful me thinks.

_________________
1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:13 pm 
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Location: Atlanta,GA Havana,Cuba
This product fits the following vehicles

DLG1352-6-7 DLG1395-6-11 Autozone
P79367,P7868-6-11 Advanceautoparts

Used On:
1989-1993 Buick Century
1990-up pickup or van with 7.4L
1985-1997 OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA With A/C Engine: L4 2.0 Liter FI Prt#P7868-6-11
1990 pickup or van with 7.4L
BUICK CENTURY 89 3.3L(204) V6 All
BUICK CENTURY 91-90 3.3L(204) V6 All
BUICK CENTURY 92 3.3L(204) V6 1st Prod
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA 89 3.3L(204) V6 All
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA 90 3.3L(204) V6 From Mid 1990
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA 90 3.3L(204) V6 To Mid 1990
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA 91 3.3L(204) V6 All
REPLACES THESE ORIGINAL NUMBERS:

AC DELCO 334-2325, 334-2325, 334-2369, 334-2418
DELCO 10463117, 1101475, 1101608, 321-408, 10463177, 10463208, 10479898, 10479937, 10479938, 321-408, 321-469, 321-499
DELPHI RM1011


A stock GM CS130 ) (1990's) will produce between 50 to 60 amps at an idle.Need to be revved up to 2000rpm to get it to turn on 14-16volts.

All CS130 Alternators are 105AMP
All CS144 Alternators are 140AMP Cadillac Deville,Eldorado,Seville With 4.9L



$100.00 + @ your local parts store, what i paid $15 @ pullapart and had it tested works 100% i'm goingback to get another 1 an rebuild it so i can have a spare or drop da 140 Amp kit in bigger stator is required from an cs144 $35.00 to rebuild.


Attachments:
suzuki alt bracket moved over for gm alternator install.jpg
suzuki alt bracket moved over for gm alternator install.jpg [ 179.88 KIB | Viewed 3552 times ]

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Last edited by mijerseyswift on Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:50 pm 
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Posts: 1099
Location: Abbotsford, BC
mijerseyswift wrote:
This product fits the following vehicles

DLG1352-6-7 DLG1395-6-11 Autozone
P79367,P7868-6-11 Advanceautoparts

Used On:
1989-1993 Buick Century
1990-up pickup or van with 7.4L
1985-1997 OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA With A/C Engine: L4 2.0 Liter FI Prt#P7868-6-11
1990 pickup or van with 7.4L
BUICK CENTURY 89 3.3L(204) V6 All
BUICK CENTURY 91-90 3.3L(204) V6 All
BUICK CENTURY 92 3.3L(204) V6 1st Prod
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA 89 3.3L(204) V6 All
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA 90 3.3L(204) V6 From Mid 1990
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA 90 3.3L(204) V6 To Mid 1990
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA 91 3.3L(204) V6 All
REPLACES THESE ORIGINAL NUMBERS:

AC DELCO 334-2325, 334-2325, 334-2369, 334-2418
DELCO 10463117, 1101475, 1101608, 321-408, 10463177, 10463208, 10479898, 10479937, 10479938, 321-408, 321-469, 321-499
DELPHI RM1011

Used On:


A stock GM CS130 ) (1990's) will produce between 50 to 60 amps at an idle.Need to be revved up to 2000rpm to get it to turn on 14-16volts.



1990 pickup or van with 7.4L

All CS130 Alternators are 105AMP
All CS144 Alternators are 140AMP Cadillac Deville,Eldorado,Seville With 4.9L



$100.00 + @ your local parts store, what i paid $15 @ pullapart and had it tested works 100% i'm goingback to get another 1 an rebuild it so i can have a spare or drop da 140 Amp kit in bigger stator is required from an cs144 $35.00 to rebuild.


wtf ? could you please translate ?

_________________
1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:00 am 
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Posts: 410
Location: Atlanta,GA Havana,Cuba
it's a gm cs130 alternator get's 40-50 amps @ idle 1000rpm or so

1. Get a 3cyl=1.0 or 4cyl 1.3 G13B,G16A,G16B Block 1995-2001 Alternator bracket with thee "Black" circle through the bracket.

2. Grind, cut it a way from base plate thats tighten to the engine,move it over by the curved end further over to the right,reweld it back in that position,or get a bracket from here http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-S ... dZViewItem

3.Install with new longer bottom bolt,lock washers...etc

4.Wire it up "white" goes to the back of the alternators threaded screw"10mm" Bolt 1.25,reloop red alternator wire to the threaded bolt with 10 gauge ring,on my mk2-mk4 cut & attach 10 gauge ring to "IG" "Black With White strip" wire, Next splice Brown "L" Wire from alternator harness to "white wire with red strip" solder or tape together with "black eletrical" tape.

5.Check charging with voltmeter or battery/charg Tester


Attachments:
Suzuki GM Alternator Bracket.jpg
Suzuki GM Alternator Bracket.jpg [ 10.89 KIB | Viewed 3592 times ]

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:38 pm 
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Location: Abbotsford, BC
sry im not a mechanic so thats not making sense to me

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1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:06 pm 
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King of Pompous
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Posts: 5596
Location: Ottawa ONT.
He's telling you how to put a bigger alt in the car.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:11 pm 
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Posts: 410
Location: Atlanta,GA Havana,Cuba
If you can't just take the parts to a mechanic an have him due the job,it's so easy to install just like factory! you just splice 2 wires an get a longer bracket bolt on the bottom easy easy easy swap i'll take pictures when i'm done for you.


this thing is great the samurai,sidekick guys use this with wenches,welders attach to there zuk's with foglights/ac/extra current.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:15 pm 
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Location: Atlanta,GA Havana,Cuba
Thanks ''M'' for the clarity!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:44 pm 
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Location: Abbotsford, BC
any updates on the proper bracket and alternator that fits ??

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1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:02 am 
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King of Pompous
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Location: Ottawa ONT.
You mean other than the link he gave you?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:20 am 
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no he said he would tell me how to install it with images but never did yet

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1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:08 pm 
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Posts: 410
Location: Atlanta,GA Havana,Cuba
? what are you talking about!!! just follow what i wrote your home free. pictures soon if my camera phone is any good.

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