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 Post subject: 89 GTi, Audio Overhaul
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:23 pm 
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Paul Jr.
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Hi everyone,

I'm looking to revamp my sound system, the car is already wired for it and everything, I just need advice on certain things.

Which are the best brands/sound for my money? I'm looking for a more bassy tone (I'm a bass player.., but I also want a decent amount of mid for those break through guitar riffs)

Here is my set budget:

Front (2 x 4" speakers) - $50-125
Mid/Behind rear seat side panels (2 x 4-6.5" speakers, not sure yet) - $75-150
Rear (2 x [6x9"s]) - $100-150

These are just speakers to start, the sub and amp will come later, but I have heard great things about Alpine Type-R subs, and am planning on getting a single 10", unless I get a substantial amount of "WHAT THE HELL, THOSE THINGS SUCK!" replies. As for an amp, not quite sure, looking between the 200-300 Watt range.

I think just 4 x 4" speakers for the front and mid, and then 2 x 6x9"s for the rear in make-it-yourself enclosure kits.

Not sure if its overkill, but if ANYONE at all can offer some advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
~Jr

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Last edited by Knuckles Jr on Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:51 pm 
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King of Pompous
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Well...hmmm...THOSE TYPE R's SUCK!!!


Actualy I've heard good things about them :P


4" speakers won't give you anything under 120Hz (some of the best ones may reach to 100Hz if their amped) so if your willing to mount something larger in the doors I highly recomend that. If not then go out and listen to as many 4 inchers as you can and pick the ones you like best. Listen to them off axis so that you get a better idea of what they will sound like in the car. Same goes for the rest of your speakers. There is no real best brand because everybody likes something different. 6x9's in a prefab box IMO sound horrible. I don't like the sound of speakers in the back to begin with but when you stuff a speaker made to play in a huge enclosure into something barely big enough to hold it things sound much worse. Again...you may like the sound of it. Personaly if your putting some 6.5's in the rear quarters I'd lose the 6x9's and dynamat the 1/4 panel with the money you save.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:19 pm 
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Paul Jr.
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Thanks M,

Not really into mounting bigger things in the doors, don't like cutting things up, I have 4 x 4" MB Quartz's in the car at the moment, but I have a feeling they are blown, and they sound bad at loud volumes, and the bass is horrible.

I'm thinking now just get some 4" for the front, find some decent ones, and pick up some 6.5s for the rear quarters, I have no real brand preference, although I like the Sony name, but heard bad things about sony subs/amps/spkrs in cars, but they are good in house sound systems, so i dont know.

I guess no 6x9s now lol, but I may change my mind, I can always try out my dads.

As for a sub, are Alpine Type-Rs the way to go? Ive heard great things, but I'm only getting a 10 inch, so maybe theres a better alternative?

I know nothing about amps other than I want a dual channel or something, not sure if theres better than that, and I know I need 4 ohm speakers, because thats what cars use.

If anybody else has some suggestions or advice, I greatly appreciate it.

Thanks so much M,
~Jr

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:14 pm 
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King of Pompous
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Even with a high end 4" driver you won't really get any bass. You can get foam "cups" that mount behind the speaker and help a bit in the bass department though. If your feeling ambitious and have an old set of grills you can fiberglass them to make a 5.25" fit. There was a guy here a long time ago from BC that made some but I forget his name. I'll try to find the thread in question. If you run the 4" speakers and your deck has a crossover built in set it to 120Hz-150Hz to keep them cleaner when the bass hits.

Type R's are good subs. If you aren't going for anything too crazy power wise you can look up Mach 5 Audio for their 10" sub thats pretty cheap but has had some good reviews. I use their 18's in my home theater (at the time they retailed at $80CDN) and they are nothing short of amazing. I have a prototype 20" driver from them as well that's built great...just haven't made a nice enclosure for it yet. Other good "cheap" brands are Pioneer, Clarion, and MTX has a few cheaper models.

Since your going with a low power setup you should only need one amp to power your sub. Everything else can work off the deck. A small 150-200W should more than suffice and won't break the bank either. MTX has their TC2002 that would work nicely. Future shop has a Pioneer amp (GM-D7400M) on for $119 that looks like it would work well too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:26 pm 
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memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=302

Thats him...hasn't posted here in a long time though. Might be able to get him through email. His name is Rick.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:27 pm 
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Paul Jr.
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I heard both Alpine and Clarion have some good amps, I think I'm gonna stick with the Type-R Sub, and I'll research the amps a bit more, this weekend I'm just looking to buy some speakers.

I'm going to go to the Best Buy, and the Future shop to look around, and ask what they think. Maybe I'll take the rear interior panel out so they can see the plywood, and I can ask what they think. Gotta figure out how to take the grills in the front off.

How would I go about fiberglassing the grills for a 5.25 inch speaker? Not quite clear on that one.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll post some pics, and what I get, over the weekend.

Still wondering about the fiberglassing though.
Thanks,
~Jr

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Paul Jr.
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I've found some 4" speakers that range from 75 Hz to 25 kHz, they are Infinity Kappa 4" 2-Way Car Speakers (42.7i), and are for sale at Future Shop for 169.99, might pick them up. But these are 2 Ohm, will they work, because I thought most systems used 4 ohm speakers? Not sure about this, can anyone clarify?

Now I just gotta look up 6.5" speakers.
~Jr

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" 6' 6", ain't nobody sittin' behind me unless they're an amputee "
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:31 pm 
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King of Pompous
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2 Ohms off the deck will likely cook it. You are correct that most, if not all, are designed for 2 ohm only. If you had an amp for the fronts then you would be OK. The 75-25khz can be a bit misleading too. While they will surely play down to 75Hz they will not do it loud enough to be heard over road noise, exhaust, AC etc. The 75Hz rating is best case scenario (and that means not in a car ;)).


To fiberglass the factory grilles you need to cut an MDF ring to hold the 5.25" speaker. This ring gets placed on top of the OEM grill and then fleece is stretched over it and then fiberglassed. Depending on the siz of the speaker you can lay them flat but more often than not you will need to angle them so that they fit properly. You will likely have to cut a bit of material away from under the grill too though not always.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:06 am 
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Paul Jr.
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Alright, I went out for a little window shopping, so to speak today, and I'm quite interested in the Alpine Type-R Speakers and sub, the speakers are not made in 4" however, so I will have to get 5.25s and fiberglass that front grill. As for the rear I will be putting some 6.5" Type Rs in, and then later on, add a sub/amp.

What is an MDF ring, sorry if it's a question of stupidity.

And did that guy post how he did it? Or he has just done it. Cause I looked through his posts, and did not see anything.
Is there a guide for it?

Thanks so much,
~Jr

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:34 am 
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King of Pompous
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An MDF ring is simply a ring cut from MDF wood to mount your speaker into. Basicaly looks like a doughnut where the hole is where your speaker fits and the outside is where you attach your layer of fleece to cover in fiberglass. I don't have a tutorial on the grilles but if you look at this one HERE you can see how a set of kick pods are made. The process would be similar but instead of making a base for the kick pod you would be using your grille. Mount the ring in the same fashion shown and test fit it in the car. Make sure you allow for a little more thickness from the fleece/glass. If its a go cover it in fleece (double check your fit again) and coat it with resin. Once the resin dries you add a couple of layers of fiberglass and sand it smooth. If you can add the fiberglass to the inside of the hardened fleece (going in from under the grill and adding glass to the inside of the fleece shell) you can save yourself a lot of sanding in the end.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:49 pm 
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Sweet, thank you so much for your help M, you're a great asset to this forum.

I picked up a pair of Alpine Type-R's 6.5" Coaxial 2-ways (300 Watts Peak - 100 Watts RMS), they ran me about $209, after taxes from Best Buy. I could probably find them cheaper off eBay, or something, but I'd rather have the convenience of this. Plus I get a discount if I get the speakers installed at Best Buy., but I might just do them myself, not sure yet lol.

I am probably going to get 5.25"s for the front ones, 4"s tend to be a lot weaker in my opinion. I'm going to try this fiberglass thing on a spare set of grills. I will post pics, and throughout the process, and when its done, and what I did for some people who may want to do this as well. But I will post in another topic for a tutorial.

In a month or two, I will look at subs/amps, but for now, just speakers are contenting me. Still gotta find those blasted 5.25s.

Oh well,
Thanks so much again for your help M,
~Jr

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:44 pm 
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King of Pompous
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No problem. Just remember as your building them to keep measuring and double checking for fit.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:35 pm 
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you definately want two 15" subs and 1000watt amp.
oh, btw I have a 10" sub in a box that i'm trying to get rid of. you can pick it up for $20. it's mtx road warrior.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:08 am 
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Paul Jr.
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I will double check a lot, and I always measure twice, cut once.

As for 1995firefly4dr, no, I don't need 2 15s... Its overkill for such a small car, unless you're planning on producing concert levels, and inducing deafness.

Thanks again for the advice m,
Tomorrow I will head out to langley, and look for those 5.25s, most stores closed at 5 today, and some will be closed tomorrow for bc day. I paid $180 plus tax for those 6.5s and the stupid thing is its almost the same price for the 5.25s... But I guess thats the price you pay for quality, and I hate buying pieces of crap, so I'll deal with it.

Thanks again,
~Jr

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" 6' 6", ain't nobody sittin' behind me unless they're an amputee "
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:49 pm 
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Alright!, Today I measured a spare dash of my dads (MK2), and the holes for the speakers in the front, are about 4 1/8" wide, and I figured I might have to do that fiberglassing thing, but I looked at the Alpine Type-R 5.25" speakers I picked up (SPR-13C 5.25" Coaxial 2-Way Speakers), and their cutout diameter is 4-5/8" (its actually 4 19/32", but you always give a little more). I measured to see if I could make the hole in the dash big enough to fit these, and they JUST barely will fit, I am going to make a stencil, and trace around it, and then dremel the edges. Overall, it will be a one day process, which will happen not this weekend, but probably the next.

The one problem I may have is the mounting depth interfering with the air duct for the side defrost. The mounting depth is 2 3/16", aka 2 1/4". There isn't enough room for it, but since the air duct is plastic, I can either tie it down to something, or just let it be pushed down by the bottom of the magnet.

I am excited to fit this system, and see how it sounds in my car. So far, this is the setup.

I Have:
Alpine SPR-17C 6.5" Coaxial 2-Way Speaker System - $209 CDN After Taxes - Best Buy
Alpine SPR-13C 5.25" Coaxial 2-Way Speaker System - $224 CDN After Taxes - Visions Electronics

Soon to come:
Alpine SWR-1042D 10" Subwoofer (4Ω + 4Ω). - $200 - Alpine-USA.com
***Not sure about amplifer yet, but probably 200-300W one, any suggestions?*** - TBA

Tomorrow I am going to pull out the back seat/rear interior panels, and the plywood behind them. I will cut the cutout diameter for the 6.5s (5 3/8"), and wire them, and mount them. That should satisfy me for a short time, until August 15/16/17 When I can spend a day doing the fronts, pulling out the dash, tracing the new cutout diameter, and dremeling it, then wiring and mounting the new speakers, and reinstalling dash.

In the next few months, I'm going to attempt to make myself a vented 10" Sub box, with a large enough back side to mount an amplifier to.

Thanks for the help M, and others,
~Jr

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:07 am 
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King of Pompous
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The duct is in there pretty tight and tying it back probably won't do anything for you. The magnet will bump into it regardless. If you mount the speaker on top of the grille (see pic) you might get enough clearance. I've heard of people heating it and denting it to clear the magnet but I've never seen one in person to know if will work. I imagine if you could that it would increase turbulence noise and/or decrease output when the heater/AC is on though. If you try it I think the easiest way would be with a heat gun but be careful about melting things and don't say I didn't warn you ;).

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:10 am 
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here's the pic. The speaker in the pic is an "overacheiving" 4" driver with a large magnet. It just squeezed in when mounted on top. If your 5" will clear that way then all you need to do is wrap your grille with whatever you like (this one was cheap grille cloth) and call it a day.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:22 am 
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Paul Jr.
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Thanks for the idea, I don't know if I will try heating the duct or not, or if I'll just try to push it down with the magnet but if it has to be moved too far down, ie. more than 1/4 - 3/8", then I might just try mounting it on top of the grille. I like the look of that setup in the picture, its simple, yet effective, however, my speaker cover things are like silver, and they have an almost bright red R logo on them lol, so I'm going to try to mount it under, before mounting it on top, my dad is sure it will fit, I think so too, we'll see.

Thanks again, I'll post pics through installation.
~Jr

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" 6' 6", ain't nobody sittin' behind me unless they're an amputee "
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:46 am 
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If they fit as is that would be awesome and save you a good chunk of time :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:48 pm 
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So I've decided not to cut up my dash for 5.25 inch speakers, instead after many questions, I've decided to go with Alpine Type-S 4"s, instead of Type-R 5.25s.

These 4's will bolt right in, and when amped will sound great, the only thing that is different is the bass material, but that will be made up for with the 10" Type-R sub.

Here are some pictures of the install of the 6.5"s in the rear. (Sorry forgot to take pictures before we made the holes bigger.):

Brand new, Hoorah! - http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4682/dsc01133cg3.jpg
Comparing the old to the new - http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/893/dsc01132gc6.jpg
Close-up - http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/1412/dsc01134rs1.jpg
Panels Reinstalled - http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2513/dsc01136ha1.jpg

They sound great, lots of bass from these alone, I turned the EQ down on them, because when a sub is in you won't need the bass, and it kills the speakers anyways.

~Jr

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" 6' 6", ain't nobody sittin' behind me unless they're an amputee "
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:03 am 
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I bought and installed the Alpine Type-S 4" 2ways, and when I went to fit the grilles back on, of course it didnt fit, and I was going to cut a hole for the tweeter, but instead my dad had the bright idea to cut the horizontal ribs in a circle pattern, like underneath the surface ribs, theres ones crossing it to support it, you can cut those off to fit these speakers, theres still a small bulge, but barely noticeable unless you look closely.

I will post pictures when I get back from Kelowna over this weekend, they sound great, can't wait to try them out on the highway with windows open, and see the difference.

It's amazing what can happen with quality over quantity.
~Jr

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