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 Post subject: Painting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:52 am 
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whats the best paint to use for primeing over rust? spray paint or what else is there? and what colour is good? also is there a certain type of finish that should be used before actually putting the real finishing paint on? Also sand paper and are there any technics that should be used as well, up and down or in circles?

im hoping a guru painter will take a look at this thread that can give me all the insite. :)

Mike

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:01 am 
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If you go to the rotisserie post from yesterday somebody posted a bunch of links for rotisseries and there was a autobody basics pdf mixed in there. I read most of it yesterday and it was actually pretty good.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:21 am 
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i like to use a mar hyde product that converts iron oxide to an iron sulfate to stabilize the steel. you can use that as a decent primer and paint right over it. for a chassis, you can't beat a product called POR15. it's as hard as a brick bat, won't chip, and completely encapsulates rust.

grashopr is a body and paint guy professionally. check some of his posts for tips on restoration work.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:03 pm 
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I mainly work in Bikes, but allot of The Info near the bottom of THIS PAGE relates to painting pretty much anything.

For rust on a body surface, I use a product from Eastwood that works very well on surface rust; Eastwood Rust Disolver. It's a clear, pretty much odorless liquid that I put in a regular spray bottle and just spray surface rust with it. It takes about half an hour, but the rust will turn dark grey and is neutralized and ready for bodywork or an etching primer over the top. If you have super-flaky, pitted rust that you dont want to cut out and replace, or cannot get to, I use POR-15 or Eastwood Rust Encapsulator to cover the bad area from both sides (if possible) and to prepare for bodywork. The POR15 and EW Rust Encapsulator are both pretty thick (about 8-10mils per coat), so they aren't really designed for exterior surface rust work. They are primarily used on areas that you want to do once and forget about.. like floorpans (top and bottom), frames, suspension components and interior bodypanel areas.

The BEST way to get rid of rust that is beyond 'surface rust' is to GET RID OF IT. Cut it out, install new metal. Covering rust on the outside of a panel that has rusted through to the interior of the panel does no good. If the interior gets any humidity at all, it will continue to rust behind the surface treatment.

On MY stuff... I use ROLOC discsto take care of surface rust. Then I spray an Etching Primer then I do bodywork over that.

But that's me.


good luck and post pics.


Phil

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:29 am 
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so it sounds like you have to sand after every other coat of paint you put on. Essentially your last coat is clear coat, and after putting on your last coat and sanding with 2000grit, all you have to do is buff the clear coat shiny? i guess i can get those discs at any hardware/paint(body) store as well as POR15/EW/Primer/Clear coat/Colour.?

This is the basic break down.
Cleaing(degreasing,removing surface rust and anything that needs re-welding)/Sanding/primer/sanding/black fog coat/sanding/Colour paint coat/sanding higher grit/clear coat/sanding/clear coat than buffing correct or is it sanding than buffing.

i'll probably have to read over that a few more times to grasp everything.

thanks though that really helps.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:41 am 
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Schmikel wrote:
This is the basic break down.
Cleaing(degreasing,removing surface rust and anything that needs re-welding)/Sanding/primer/sanding/black fog coat/sanding/Colour paint coat/sanding higher grit/clear coat/sanding/clear coat than buffing correct or is it sanding than buffing.


Umm...
1)Degrease
2) remove rust/metalwork
3)Degrease again
4)Etching primer
5)Degrease again
6)Scuff (light sanding)
7)Putty/Bodywork
8)Degrease again
9)Sanding
10)Guide coat (black fog coat)
11) - Repeat 6 through 10 til everything is straight
12)More sanding
13)Degrease again
14)Sealer
15)Scuff (light sanding)
16)Degrease again
17)BaseCoat (color coat)
18)Degrease/Tack Wrag
19)Clearcoat (let dry)
20)Color-Sand (1000 grit, 1500 grit, 2000 grit)
21)Multi-step polish

I think that's it....



Phil

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:58 am 
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damn! that's complicated.

i like to wire brush, seal, sand, shake rattle can, and spray. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:59 am 
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Thanks, that really really makes things easier, more of a step quide along with the info on your site. Your time spent is much appreciated. Thanks :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:46 am 
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haha ya but his way probably looks better :)

Was there a certain type of spray gun/air compressor ei like one off of ebay or are there certain spec's name brands to look for? are these rentable? im guessing you cant just use any ol spray gun.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:33 am 
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I don't think it was mentioned, but wet sanding I have found is one of the best ways to get rid of orange peel once your done the final coats of paint before clearcoating (if you go with a base coat/clear coat paint that is). Its also alot easier on the paint the just sanding with the dry stuff :dunno:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:50 am 
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As far as guns go... *I* prefer to use a Sata Digital to do my color coats. There are better guns out there, but the Sata gets all of my work done and is easy to maintain. For clearing, I use an Accuspray 07HS Propack. It's USELESS for anything but clear, as it atomizes everything into a 'fog'. The 0.61 tip is good for runny clears like HOK, but I routinely use PPG 2002 or 2021 which are a bit thicker, so the 0.72 is normally in the gun.
The problem is, neither of those guns are going to help most people spray something 'better'. And at around $1000 MSRP together, it'd be useless to go buy them to spray one car. It'd be cheaper to pay someone else to do it. Harbor Freight sells an HVLP gun. The gun is about $50 regularly, but Harbor Freight typically has a couple of 'sales' a year where the gun goes down to around $30-$35. You CANNOT beat this gun for the price. I personally LOVE this gun for sealers and primers. For overall car jobs (I do VERY few of), it's literally cheaper for me to buy one of these guns, use it for my sealers and primers, then throw it away rather than subject my Sata to the stuff.HERE is a great article on spraying with the HF HVLP gun plus some setup tips and photos.

Go get one of those (or hey! Two! One for sealers/color coat, one for clear!!) HVLP guns and use it. If you're not spraying anything 'super-thick', you can do it with a regular 30-gallon, 3-5horse household air compressor. Just know that when you go to do your clearcoat, you're airpressure is going to drop off after a few minutes as you empty the tank and run solely on the compressor. This WILL affect your surface coat.


Anyways, that should get you going in the 'right' direction...


Ahh.. and wet-sanding. I wet sand EVERYTHING after the first coat of primer/sealer has been put on. I dont risk wet-sanding the bare metal, but everything else gets it. It saves paper, and makes everything sand easier. As far as sanding your color-coat before clearing... just know this; If your color coat has ANY pearl or metallic in it and you sand it, you WILL be able to see your sanding strokes. If you're just trying to get it 'flat' so the clear goes on easier... try this; Spray your color coat and then spray a quart of DBC500 intercoat clear over it. It's just like a 'clear' basecoat. Let the DBC500 dry for a day, then sand IT with 800 grit. THEN clear. You wont be disturbing the metallic or pearls by sanding them, and you'll still get a super-flat finish.


Phil

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:17 am 
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HiTempguy wrote:
I don't think it was mentioned, but wet sanding I have found is one of the best ways to get rid of orange peel once your done the final coats of paint before clearcoating


thats what color sanding is :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:46 pm 
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:thwack: I'm no bodyman, I leave that to my father, even though I can do it if I REALLY feel the need to :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:13 am 
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wow thats quite a few complications but i'll have to research it all to find out exactly what everything means. :)
thanks

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