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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 7:23 pm 
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MuE Patient Zero/The Link Man
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<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Hey guys...<br><br>just quick poll i guess, please only vote if you have a reasonable opinion... (orelse vote null, please)<br><br>basically i'm wondering if the price i was quoted for my engine swap, GTI G13B into Firfly Turbo, is worth it...<br><br>They estimated $2200 CAN ($1490 USD) for a 2 day long swap which would include a switch of trannies (the swift one is shot, ) new belts, ecu swap, the worx... basically making it as strong as it could possibly be...<br>After the swap i'm gonna turbo, so i'd like to have it proffesionally swapped to be sure it's ballanced at all that. Seeing as i don't have the tools, or experience... it's all done at a Suzuki Dealership acctually so it's look, I'm retarded the best experience you can get (besides one of you guys of course... but i was assured this mechanic had been working on swifts and the like for at LEAST 4-5 years, as well as other engine swaps)<br><br>So whut do you think? Lock in yer votes! :P<br><br>Comments? Questions? I need some advice i guess, i figure this is the best pace to do it...</FONT><br><br><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2><B>Results (total votes = 13):</B></FONT><table bgcolor=#FFFFFF border=0 cellpadding=3 cellspacing=0 width="75%"><tbody><tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Yer crazy... don't do it</FONT> </td><td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>8 / 61.5%</FONT> </td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=184 height=10 hspace=3> </td></tr><tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>I dunno, that seems fair...</FONT> </td><td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>2 / 15.4%</FONT> </td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=46 height=10 hspace=3> </td></tr><tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>That's a STEAL man, do it!</FONT> </td><td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>0 / 0.0%</FONT> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>I have NO idea.... (null vote)</FONT> </td><td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>3 / 23.1%</FONT> </td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=69 height=10 hspace=3> </td></tr><tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr></tbody></table> <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 7:34 pm 
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does that include all materials ?<br>the suzuki dealership out here charges $55cdn/hr for me if i want any work done .. so 2 days or 16hrs @ 55cdn is about $900 for labour. belts would be about $90cdn. <br>so unless that includes a lot more parts/materials, i think it's too much ...<br>even if the shop was more expensive there, like $75/hr, that's only 1200 for the two days.<br>aren't there a couple extra braces on the gti engine as well ? & who keeps your old engine, harness, tranny, etc ?<br>are you supplying the new engine/tranny/etc ? <br>are you actually using a gt tranny ? because don't you need new axles & then new front hubs & such as well ?<br> <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 8:44 pm 
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I imagine yes, it does...<br>i bring everything in, and everything is mine when i leave...<br>i will be taking Gti tranny out, firefly one will replace it... and i think that the axel and hubs come from swift. (is what i understand anyways)<br><br>The invoice looked like this... <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Remove Swift and Firefly Engine - <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>$986.00</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>Modify engine mounts to accomodate Swift engine to Firely body, romove two wire harnesses, swap ECM, Steering column parts (combo switch etc.) - <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>$870.00</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>Shop Supply & Material - <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>$185.60</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Labour total - <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>$2041.60</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>Parts total - <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>$0.00</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>GST - <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>$142.91</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Total - <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>$2184.51</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: eeep, yer' crazy.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 9:05 pm 
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Lots of questions like n1tros, but even still, I bought my GTi for $2000, and the other for $2500 so that sounds a bit much to me. Find out how much of that is parts and how much of that is labour. Even adding the cost of a timing belt, valve cover gasket, plugs, cap, rotor, wires, and heck, a brand new clutch, I would think you could have it done for many times cheaper. Even the changing transmission thing is a bit of a hoax as it only takes 10 minutes to get it off if you yank the motor complete. Then another 10-20 to put it on (clean it up, check release bearing) not really as major as it sounds.<br><br>I could come down and help you out for a couple of days (I would need a few peanuts).. even without air tools on me down there all the major components could go in the car within that time. Wiring could be a pain if you don't have it all, however given that the turbo has a tach it might already have some extra wires... other concerns are the fuel pump, and the transmission side engine mount which is about an inch forward that would need work. I have friends down in Edmonton with all the equipment, but I don't know if they'd be able to lend a garage or not.<br><br>Basically what would add time is all the little stuff. And changing the timing belt/tune-up on a motor outside in the cold isn't such a fun idea.<br><br>Do you have complete shell to swap over? If you have the control arms, hubs, shafts, fuel pump, wiring, etc. it should go fairly quickly.<br><br> <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 9:11 pm 
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oh yeah, while I'm there, can I keep the 3 cyl motor. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br> <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: swap
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:59 am 
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you are crazy to take this into consideration.<br><br>the best would be to do is to find another car or shell. as then u can sell your car when u get it done<br><br>paying that kind of money is sick..<br><br>also whats up with modifying the engine mounts???<br><br>u do not have to do anything to the g13b mounts.<br><br><br>and make sure u if u do they change brake lines and propotining valves. etc... everything should be swapped to make it work right. <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:59 am 
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I agree with most of what Kyle's is telling you...<br><br>I know this is a hot topic as of late, but it <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>IS</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> possible to find a decent '89-'94 <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>bone stock</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> SSGTi in the $2-$4k range here in Canada. You have to stay on top of the search and be the <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>FIRST</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> person to call when you find even 1 for sale. For example, I looked in the Trader here locally, and found a completely stock '90 GT w/200k, for sale with a Safety and valid emissions test. Seller was <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>asking</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> $1600....by the time I called, it was SOLD. That was <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">2 days</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> after it was advertised.<br><br>Patience...it's hard, but <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">will</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> pay off.<br><br>TGstring <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:01 am 
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i've got to agree w/ kyle, that seems more than a bit steep. my whole '92 swift was $2500cdn & it was in great shape (just incredibly dirty) when i got it. it may take a bit of time, but i'd concentrate on finding a genuine swift (gt/gti) & just swap over your wheels/tires and any other goodies that are transferable before selling the turbo fly.<br>your turbo fly looks pretty good the way it is, so i'm sure you could get a pretty good price for it. just post some pictures around the local highschools & inflate your price & emphasize turbo =) heheh<br>worst case, take kyle up on his offer <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:09 am 
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I guess I should have said that market value for the GTis seems to vary from province to province. BC seems way more expensive than here in Alberta. <br><br>And that actually bugs me... because here I see Metros going for thousands more than a GTi and I haven't really seen any high-priced GTis here. There have been about 5 in the past few years besides mine that went for around $2000-$2500. the ones that are $3500 are newer, lower kms, or have mods done. And even then, they don't seem to sell right away. <br><br>For example, there is one near Edmonton right now that didn't sell at $1800 and it was in there for 4 weeks. I see it listed again and I won't actually post the current price this week for fear of the 'first guy who sees it' scenario. What the hell is wrong with it? I don't have the money to even entertain the idea of it right now, which is sad, so I haven't called. <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:23 am 
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MuE Patient Zero/The Link Man
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in my possesion, i have 2 cars... 1 89 GTI... 1 Firefly Turbo..<br>firefly has work done, i love it... it needs more... taking two cars, making one...<br><br>kyle, i think yer god, i'll call you this weekend or something... we talk... (peanuts are NO problem :P )<br><br>thanx guys... BIG HELP!<br><br>oh god... i promised myself i wouldn't cry :P<br>-Mustard <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 11:56 am 
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Here's my $.02. Experiences have led me to believe that, in most cases, my own work, whether it be on the car or renovating the house or whatever, is done with more care than some stranger who doesn't have a stake. Additionally, it takes me almost a month of 45 hour work weeks to earn $2000 after income taxes are paid, so if I was doing the engine/tranny swap, it would be worth it even if it took me weeks to do.<br><br>You don't need much experience in my opinion, just reasonable intelligence, a positive attitude, time, and the right tools (maybe some special ones but with the money you save you could go wild on tools).<br><br>Another thing to consider is the learning experience you will gain and how much better you are going to know the car after a job like that, as well as the satisfaction and pride of doing the job yourself. <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:44 pm 
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<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>in my possesion, i have 2 cars... 1 89 GTI... 1 Firefly Turbo..<br>firefly has work done, i love it... it needs more... taking two cars, making one...<br><br>kyle, i think yer god, i'll call you this weekend or something... we talk... (peanuts are NO problem :P )<br><br>thanx guys... BIG HELP!<br><br>oh god... i promised myself i wouldn't cry :P<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>First the Empress, and now you. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :o --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> Now only if Jennifer Lopez would come here, I'm almost positive I could get her to.<br><br>I agree with Bosco, if I help out and something goes wrong, it's your fault. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> Actually, the reason I started working on my own car was because I knew I could do a better job than what was being done on it. On the big jobs, I was able to pay a little for a lot help, and I don't regret it. It was a great way to learn and I still encourage people to try themselves regardless. You certainly have enough people on this forum with the experience. <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: the car in question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:57 pm 
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<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.wizardly.org/swifts/mustard/images/Right1.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br>if you're going to swap it into a fly, it looks like the right fly.<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.wizardly.org/swifts/mustard/images/RearLeft2.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub83.ezboard.com/bteamswift.showUserPublicProfile?gid=n1tr0>n1tr0</A> at: 4/4/03 1:00:50 pm<br></i>


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 Post subject: Re: the car in question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:01 pm 
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Oh crap yeah, that looks good. Finding a shell to match that would definetely take time and $$$.<br><br>ooooooooooooo.... <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: the car in question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:39 pm 
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he likes me... he really likes me.... <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :o --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>yeah, i agree that anything going wrong would be my problem... but i'd run into far MORE problems with-out help.. trust me.<br><br>thanx for the comment about fly... it's been that way for 7 years, no way in hell i'd trade for a diff shell... you should see the donor car man... *shudder* <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :\ --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>-Mustard <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: the car in question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 8:42 pm 
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The mad quebecer
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Hello guys! May I add my opinion about this?<br><br>Well Mustard, I understand your feeling about the car. I told you I love it. It sure look nice and clean. If the body is still in good shape I sure would keep it instead of buying a GT. I think these T3 are cute, a bit defiant toward other cars such like SUV and other monsters. I like these tiny mirrors and the rear wing, also the hood scoop would be perfect for further turbo setup (a bit small tho..). Seat and interior are perfect match with the rest of the car. I don't think you can fit GT wiring harness with t3 cluster and it's a shame, those are much nicer than gt's in my opinion. Actually it can be done but require a huuuuuuuge dose of patience and electrical knoweledge to connect inboard wiring with ECU gt's wiring. even then, rpm would show erounous reading since it's calibrated for 3 cyl input.<br><br>Back to the wortiness of the swap. As far as I can tell you, if these guys at your suzi shop don't know that a swap can be done without modification to motor mounts, then they don't know a damn about suzuki shell. As Murr or whatteee say, it's a bolt-on, just require time and patience. As for the frame rail, yes it's located 1 inch forward but you do not need to weld or fabricate anything. Holes & nuts are already there from factory, the only catch is that they are hiden behind rail's sheet metal. Have the hole marked exactly where they should be, then Use GT's rail as reference and carefully measure the new emplacement on the t3 rail. Drill 1/8 hole and if your measure are right, you'll go trought the sheet metal easily. Behing is a 1/4 reinforcement plate onto wich is welded nuts for hypotetical 1.3 or 1.6 engine mounts. Remember, these car all share the same shell. Once you have drilled all 4 holes, have a 1/2 or 5/8 bore device (the thing that have a drill bit in the middle of a cylinder) and remove a chunk of the frame rail to uncover the threads (remember, there is a 1/4 plate behind)....et voila! once it's done you can bolt the gt's engine mount right where it's suposed to be. Easy as a pie <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>Actually I don't know if someone understand what i say, I know, Whattheeee could explain the same thing with only two sentence but it's not my fault <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :( --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":("><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ...or maybe I look like a fool explaining something everybody know? nyway.. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8o --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/nerd.gif ALT="8o"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>And yes, I can confirm that GT and t3 share the same fuel pump, you can left the feeding untouched.<br><br>to conclude, if I were you, I would find a honest mechanic, someone knoweledgeable and trustable about cars and then have the swap done by him instead of the shop. This way you can stay with him and learn valuable knoweledge while he'll be wrenching.<br><br>Good luck!<br><br>Jar <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: the car in question
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 10:21 pm 
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Jardamuth, i think i might just love you too :P<br><br>thanx for help, i'm sure' we'll use it... thanx for confirming the fuel pump, thats one less thing to worry about...<br><br>it is a shame about the tach, but whutever, i'll get some white face gauges or something...<br><br>-Mustard <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: the car in question
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:33 pm 
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I have to disagree with you guys about not having to modified the swift engine mounts for swapping from 3 cylinder to GTi.<br><br>If you have a 91 and below 3cyl swift the mount at the tranny (laft hand side) will have to make addititional holes for bolts to put in the GTi. I think they have to make 2 holes. <br><br>Maybe I'm wrong but it can be check.<br><br>BTW here in Malaysia the labour cost of swapping the whole GTi stuff (engine, tranny, interior, wiring and body part) cost us around US$400 <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :p --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: the car in question
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:39 pm 
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Hi Khai rule... Jar has done this a few times, and I've done it once. If you use the 4cyl. motor mounts, all it needed was the one hole for that tranny mount in the frame rail. <br><br>Perhaps I'll make up a template for 3cyl-4cyl, as I have both the busted 3cyl and my motorless Swift in the garage.<br><br> <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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