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Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:57 pm 
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I read in recent news an item alleging that VW appears to have used a software algorithm to defeat emissions controls when not in Emissions test mode affecting 500,000 diesel engine cars. If true Potential fines could be $18 BILLION US. A recall appears to be underway.

I guess Suzuki gets good mileage from its cars by good old fashioned efficient design and is probably relieved to not be partnered/associated with VW, and therefore not dragged into this mess.


Last edited by suzukitom on Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:38 am 
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Ouch!!! That's going to leave a mark.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:39 am 
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It will buff out
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you know how we do it in the good ol usa to big to fail we'll settle for penny's on a dollar
vw is a global corp...... Hell they even build vw in Tennessee .... Amercan fartenuiton
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on another note I read Suzuki corp is coming out with a 1.0 liter direct-injection BOOSTERJET turbo engine ...
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Yeah Crazy right.?
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http://www.carscoops.com/2015/09/new-su ... p-10l.html
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Image
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Not so fast......Non North American market
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:24 am 
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That's a great little engine and would be a lot of fun.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:37 pm 
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The clip shows a boosted 4cyl, not 3cyl. Maybe for the future swift sport? We can only dream right? :lol:

I bet they'll sell that baleno here with the 1.2ltr NA...

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1991-GTi: JE 75mm 11:1 pistons,Ported head, Single UD pulley (OCC),Sandros chip,Aluminium flywheel,3tech 222/365 cams, Cultus headers,Cultus IM,50mm tb,Crane cams adjustable cam gears,Apex suspension, 4.39fd GB.
1989-GTi: 3Tech 210/340 Cams,Cultus IM, B&G springs, TD04L turbo, Apexi SAFC, Suzukird UD pulley, Circuitse7en dual boost controller, AEM wideband, AEM water / meth injection kit, HKS bov.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:54 am 
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Updated news on the 2 companies. International arbitration court ordered VW to sell it's 19.9 % share in Suzuki stock back to Suzuki. This transaction was completed on Sept 17 2015, the day before the VW diesel emissions story broke. VW has now halted all sale of all 4 cylinder diesel cars in US under VW/Audi brand names.

It seems likely that the us spec diesel engines are sourced from a plant in mexico.

It will be interesting to see what VW's eventual recall/fix would do to fix the non compliant levels of NOx. First they have to remove any software which runs only during emission testing. What will happen to overall performance and economy, with the emission controls engaged 100% of the time? Will they need to add any new emission components to become compliant while maintaining driveability? Would they need to use DEF technology? (diesel exhaust fluid)

I recall how '60's and 70's (especially California-spec) cars with only primitive emission controls ran horribly and wasted gas. Example: Ford had cars from that era equipped with 302 cubic inch V-8s that struggled to put out only about 120 horsepower.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:56 am 
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let see how long the media will play this one out. If they are out to minimize the competition to the big Detroit three, then they will continue the cover it like they did with Toyota's inexplicable sudden acceleration. What was the cause of that? Sticky/curled carpet or a bunch of opportunists?

They will never pay a fine in the billions.

The diesel option costs 5-6k more and is only available in the top trim level. Hmm. That is outright fraud. But most owners would only care that it gets them the advertised mileage not the emissions bit. Unless your jurisdiction requires emissions testing.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:47 am 
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Update: VW updated today the number of diesel cars equipped with the emission defeat software from 500,000 cars in US to 11 million cars globally.

Unlike the Toyota issue involving a flawed design, the VW problem involves software with specific and undesireable functions. There is no reason to enable full emission control functions only during testing conditions. It was not that long ago that emission testing procedures involved use of a mirror under the car to verify the catalytic converter was still in place. Who would have thought they would one day need to perform ECM software code validation?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:55 pm 
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clinty wrote:
The diesel option costs 5-6k more and is only available in the top trim level. Hmm. That is outright fraud. But most owners would only care that it gets them the advertised mileage not the emissions bit. Unless your jurisdiction requires emissions testing.


Your forgetting one major thing that will piss off a lot of the owners.

The car makes MORE power when it is polluting 40x as much..

So when they reprogram the ECU and the HP drops, how many of those people are going to be worried about their mileage? They'll be screaming bloody murder because the diesel is even slower now.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:25 pm 
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Germany has historically been pretty bad at concealing mass poisonings from the public eye.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:19 am 
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They defeated the emissions testing using a steering wheel/turning sensor.
Smart way to detect if a car is being tested.
I'd never thought about that.

Who's that young fellow on GMF who can't type in black from New York?
He should have noticed as he mainlines on those cars and uses the high end diagnostic machines daily.

The articles mention NOx, but so far I haven't seen any numbers.
They ought to check our thread

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50941

which only has 15 posts, but there are actual numbers included.

Most of the guys are posting double digits for NOx during the low speed tests.
I saw 20 ppm out of Milsap, Texas.
That's pretty respectable for a car manufactured 25 years ago.

The double digits during the low speed run?
Easy to remember and much lower than allowed.

What did the diesels put out?
C'mon, internet reporters.
Show us what you've got!!!
Give us some numbers so we can compare our humble little rides and our technical abilities.

And here I've been pining for some of that common rail fuel technology!
:owned:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:45 pm 
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Current US EPA Tier 2 Bin 5 (California ULEV) NOx limits are max. 0.07 grams per mile.

Current European (Euro 6) standards appear much easier to pass with max. 0.29 grams per mile.

Reporters have been saying 3rd party tests for VW's 2.0 TDI diesel NOx produced emissions levels between 10 to 40 times higher than US standards allow. Doing the math means the results ranged from 0.7 grams per mile to 2.8 grams per mile.

It is not easy to convert between Parts per million (PPM) to Grams per Mile (g./mi.), since PPM is an instantaneous measurement ratio , whereas g/mi. is a volume measure over distance. To convert, you would need to know other factors such as vehicle speed, fuel consumption, etc. for a particular distance travelled.

I think emissions testing stations call this bag testing. IE. collect all tailpipe emissions over a driven distance and then analyze mass of the various emission components. (particulates, CO, HC, NOX, etc.)

So take the chart below with a grain of salt, as I am not a scientist. :lol: Using a government issued chart from the 1970's and average vehicle parameters, a ballpark relationship between PPM and grams/mile is illustrated.

The chart intersection of the current max NOx limit of 0.07 grams/mile is at about 0.02 PPM.

<edit>I think this chart is suggesting that current automobile NOx limits are now much lower than the ambient levels of NOx were in the 70's. L.A. smog days were off the chart.<edit>

Image

Many of us who have replaced our 15-26 year old Metro/Swift catalytic convertor, and then immediately go for tailpipe emission testing (Dynamometer-road test, not OBD test) have seen results in the (Corrected: 0 to 10 PPM range for NOx, or 0.03 g/mi during driving test)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:51 pm 
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:goodpost:


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