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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 11:39 pm 
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Location: St. Louis Mo
Car will not start. The fuse 20A DEF keeps blowing out. I do not hear the fuel pump turning on. I spent 3 hour's replacing the pump for nothing. Car still will not turn the pump on. Motor just cranks and will not start. Starting fluid did not work either. The 20A DEF fuse is blown i replaced twice and it keeps blowing it. Anyone have a guess what needs to be done or what the 20A DEF fuse is?


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:14 am 
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The problem is not for beginner so I recommend you to get any experienced mechanic. I believe it's electronic problem.

anyway def = defogger

try to disconnect defogger and then check all grounds.

If all of ground points is good then you have to find out why the fuel pump is not working such as pressure available or voltage drop. If no fuel pressure then it's easier way to check fuel pump is relay at the fuse box in the hood and or make sure there is 12v on the pink wire (common color for fuel pump supply.)

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Last edited by CMA on Fri May 27, 2016 1:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:19 am 
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I dont know what a defogger is? Where do I disconnect it?

Do you mean defroster?


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:53 am 
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Same thing.

Disconnect the plug at the rear hatch... or you might find the bad ground or wire.


PS. I edited last post for better clarify.

edit: if it's good then it might be defroster/defogger switcher.

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 8:27 am 
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CMA wrote:
Same thing.

Disconnect the plug at the rear hatch... or you might find the bad ground or wire.


PS. I edited last post for better clarify.

edit: if it's good then it might be defroster/defogger switcher.


there is a fuel relay under the hood that I swapped out for another and that didn't fix the issue either. I can tell you that on the dash the lever that controls the hot and cold air just recently broke and yesterday morning I was sliding the lever from left to right a few times. its like the link behind the dash broke because it slides very easy now.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 8:30 am 
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Location: St. Louis Mo
I found these here. will it help?

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:17 pm 
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Location: St. Louis Mo
Disconnected rear defroster on both sides. put a new fuse and it is still blowing it out. 20A DEF fuse


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:43 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
yes.

1. why did blow 20 amps into 15 amps DEF fuse? :shock: :huh:

only need 20 amp is ignition, cluster, and heater.

for now you need to make sure why it's 20amp... and are you sure it's DEF.

meanwhile forget about it

2. Focus on why fuel pump doesn't work.

- if fuse, relay and fuel pump are good BUT not pump therefore bad wire... I am sure it's your last chance to find out. It's easy way to test the fuel pump via disconnect the plug from under the seat then use other battery to test it (I believe pink is 12v and black is ground) to hear any pump.

go to that site, http://metroxfi.com/2008/11/geo-metro-a ... -diagrams/ and download between 92-94 diagrams to find a right one because they are not organized... very messy.

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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 12:29 am 
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Location: Palm Springs, Calif
Check the wires under the rear seat.
Maybe they have been rubbing and the insulation is gone.


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 1:14 pm 
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I believe the car is not getting spark. It has not blown that fuse anymore. It did though twice in a row so I don't understand why it doesn't blow them out now.

Spay starting fluid down the throttle body and it does not start. I used a spark testing but it was for a lawnmower. I plugged it all up had my brother try to start the car and we are getting no spark. I still do not hear the fuel pump turn on.


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 1:14 pm 
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Location: St. Louis Mo
pacapo wrote:
Check the wires under the rear seat.
Maybe they have been rubbing and the insulation is gone.



ok I I will try to get the back seat out and look


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 1:18 pm 
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Joeyman wrote:
pacapo wrote:
Check the wires under the rear seat.
Maybe they have been rubbing and the insulation is gone.



ok I I will try to get the back seat out and look




I just popped the seat up. It looks like show room condition under the seat. Wires look perfect. :huh:


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 2:11 pm 
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Is there a connector on those wires?


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:15 am 
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pacapo wrote:
Is there a connector on those wires?


yes there was a connector


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 3:11 pm 
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Joeyman wrote:
pacapo wrote:
Is there a connector on those wires?


yes there was a connector

That would be where you should start your electrical investigation.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:20 am 
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Location: St. Louis Mo
Im so sorry guys. I was looking at the fuse panel wrong. I had my mechanic neighbor help me last night looking the car over. We spent a few hours testing various things. The fuse that keeps Blowing is the IG 20a fuse which is the ignition fuse. I found a wiring diagram and the fuel pump relay is on that fuse along with ignition which is why we are not getting spark or fuel to the motor. We spent a couple hours unplugging things that are on the wiring diagram and it kept popping the fuse one after another. We unplugged as much as we could and also tried to trace as many Black with white stripe wires as we could. Came up empty handed

anyone have an idea?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:20 pm 
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Location: St. Louis Mo
update!!!


Car is running. my neighbor sent me a text just now. He traced every black with white stripe wire. He finally found the temp sensor wire was exposed and touching the engine. He fixed the wire and now the car is running

Missed the little booger and happy to be back on the road again.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:53 pm 
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It's good that you solved the problem.

It was interesting how you were receiving correct advice from folks here to check for short circuits and/or wiring problems, despite the initial information that it was the Defogger fuse blowing rather than the Ignition fuse.

You may want to consider examining your other engine compartment wires for chafing or insulation issues that have not yet caused issues.

It is quite common to add flexible vinyl wire conduits to protect the wiring insulation from further damage due to vibration or heat or oil exposure.

Example:
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:50 pm 
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Joeyman wrote:
update!!!


Car is running. my neighbor sent me a text just now. He traced every black with white stripe wire. He finally found the temp sensor wire was exposed and touching the engine. He fixed the wire and now the car is running

Missed the little booger and happy to be back on the road again.


We have a '94 Swift and will keep this in mind.

The engine had work done recently, I'm guessing...and the wire was 'accidentally' shorted to ground.
If no work done recently, it would be highly unlikely that the wire would short to ground on its own.
Highly unlikely.

Funny the check engine light did not give you codes for the removed wire.
What code would it be?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:11 pm 
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Quote:
Funny the check engine light did not give you codes for the removed wire.
What code would it be?


Since the black/white wire IG FUSE 12V also supplies IGN POWER INPUT voltage from the FI Relay via the WHITE/BLUE wire to the ECM, a blown fuse could mean the ECM would also be powered down, so it would not be able to record an event code.

I am surprised that the coolant temp sensor wire which is GRAY/WHITE, shorting to ground would cause the IG fuse to blow, since the temp sensor is just a variable resistor. :huh:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:05 pm 
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suzukitom wrote:

I am surprised that the coolant temp sensor wire which is GRAY/WHITE, shorting to ground would cause the IG fuse to blow, since the temp sensor is just a variable resistor. :huh:


I agree; that is why I posted "highly unlikely". I suspect they're creating a new scenario to post, explaining yet something else and how sorry they were for leading us down the garden path.
Or as they say, absence makes the heart grow fonder, and ___________ makes the grass grow longer.

Looking at the positive side (pun intended) at least he's got the car running.
In that area there are no smog/air care exams, so you could find anything under the hood and even stranger things after the exhaust manifold.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:35 pm 
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Congrats, next time be careful to ask the right question... but gladly your friend helps you... ;]

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:58 pm 
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Location: St. Louis Mo
pacapo wrote:
Joeyman wrote:
update!!!


Car is running. my neighbor sent me a text just now. He traced every black with white stripe wire. He finally found the temp sensor wire was exposed and touching the engine. He fixed the wire and now the car is running

Missed the little booger and happy to be back on the road again.


We have a '94 Swift and will keep this in mind.

The engine had work done recently, I'm guessing...and the wire was 'accidentally' shorted to ground.
If no work done recently, it would be highly unlikely that the wire would short to ground on its own.
Highly unlikely.

Funny the check engine light did not give you codes for the removed wire.
What code would it be?



No absolutely no work has been done under the hood since I've bought the car which was 2years ago and I've put 40,000 miles on it since then. It just out of the blue died as I was driving and I couldn't get the car to start back up. If you look at the wiring diagram the radiator fan thermo switch is a black with white stripe wire that is linked to the IG Fuse. We have no idea how the wire rubbed and was showing exposed copper wire. Although he told me the wire appeared to be twisted up funny. None the less I've been driving the car and its running great. I just cant believe something like this would shut down the ignition fuel pump relay and the few other things linked to the black with white stripe wire. The official name of the object the wire was going to is Radiator Fan Thermo switch according to the wiring diagram we were looking at. It was located at the back of the motor (driver side)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:27 pm 
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Joeyman,

thanks for clarifying that you meant radiator fan thermo switch, rather than temp sensor wire you originally mentioned.

It makes sense now!

Cheers
Tom


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:15 pm 
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suzukitom wrote:
Joeyman,

thanks for clarifying that you meant radiator fan thermo switch, rather than temp sensor wire you originally mentioned.

It makes sense now!

Cheers
Tom


You guys are SO much nicer than your brothers down here in the Southwest.
I guess in science class they'd say something about a double blind experiment.
It really is a shame that my fellow Americans can't express themselves like they used to.
And absolutely impossible for anyone to get real help with this type of information.
Kindly allow me to apologize!
Americans used to be much more astute than what we see now.

To the OP: you shouldn't drive a 20+ year old car for 2 years and do no work on it. Safety first; maintain the vehicle in a safe manner for the sake of all people on the road - not only yourself...


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