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 Post subject: Suggested solution
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:40 am 
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Why not go ahead with producing good mould? If your supplier is reliable,
You should OWN the produced mould.
If so, store the mould and "market" limited production runs every time you draw enough inquiries.
To make it more versatile "product" produce some in pure,Carbon composite Fibre (Expensive materials) other runs in CF with fibreglass inner (looks vs. cost) and more commonly Fibreglass bonnet reproductions, as these would allow bodystyling and easier replacement of damaged panels. (Not stonechip proof, but easier to repair NO RUST)
Try gather "owners" for mould, each makes donation to
IMPROVE THE BREED by this, if you make the parts...someone will buy them....besides, if u can buy it why pay R&D for custom parts. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:49 am 
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I have had clear fender indicators produced off factory lenses.
This was not as costly as it would seem, and after selling four sets, had made back the production cost...and still able to sell at Non genuine prices! If I EVER get more, they will make me a clear profit per four sets.
Am currently WAITING for returned prototype of centre section MKIII in clear....have had dramas with supplier, paid $500AU up front to have prototypes moulded\produced...will make a killing if I ever get enough produced to distribute.....
On a similar note, after a few phonecalls to local distributors...they would HAPPLY stock\sell these parts as there is a DEMAND. :twisted:

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manaibve wrote:
I need the following.....rear defrog switch-
thatll keep the slimy little beggars off the hatch glass :lol:


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 Post subject: Marketing difficulties?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:55 am 
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:thwack: The way around this is not to promote as Business..privately thru Forum ie brotherhoods in UK, USA, DE, AU produce limited runs

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manaibve wrote:
I need the following.....rear defrog switch-
thatll keep the slimy little beggars off the hatch glass :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:06 am 
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I would agree. but this issue keeps getting put down, but for what gain I can't see.

it seems some view this effort as futile, which is fair enough, but I'm not seeing how bashing the effort or even the discussion is helping any. speculation or not, seems there is enough interest despite some ill-guided effort to talk it down.

like all initiatives, success requires support from those with the power to move it forward to provide positive influence. this forum can be a very powerful catalyst for that, but that support is not found here, at least not for this topic and not as of this reply.

my gripe isn't about about simply my request for aftermarket parts. it's to highlight the fact that we can't even get a hood cheaply enough without rust, bondo, and being gouged with $100 shipping....much less CF. and even if I do want one, I'd end up having to bid against some other member on eBay fer it. that's absurd with all the power that we have in this forum to help fuel an effort.

isn't that what this "group" forum is all about? I'd agree with bewitched gti as well....it requires the effort that's more group oriented, less biz/profit oriented. that's a point that should resound if not hit home.

my swift is a beater anyhow, so I have no intention of paying more for a hood than I did for the car. not that I would want to....but if I could not live without a CF hood, and merely had to have cf and right now...then I could sell both of my two swift gts, and go buy a fawking civic...

Casey wrote:
if you guys are serious, can we get a more appropriate thread instead of bickering? If I have to point the guy here for reference on interest, I don't want him to see everybody acting like a damn ricer wanting CF for bling. :? :x


(not talking about you tuffcarguy :D)


Last edited by shagpal on Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:54 am, edited 9 times in total.

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 Post subject: Parts in general
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:15 am 
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Why is it that SSGTI.com can market parts, yet other forums cannot?
I know the purpose of Online club communities is not business orientated
But take a leaf out of sporting clubs...members pool funds to purchase club owned items\ tools\ R&D work
on another note...why not gain club membership benefits?
Produce member discount cards, for small fee, and accrue funds for club projects... I`m sure that a well presented meber strength listing should attract interest from company suppliers, Their customers are HERE.
Leapfrog off this and a good reputation should gain more success in getting sponsorships for members elligible...
Posting from Australia,-Bewitched Active member of RedLineGti forum
I seek only to advise and INSPIRE, not offend :yeahyeah
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manaibve wrote:
I need the following.....rear defrog switch-
thatll keep the slimy little beggars off the hatch glass :lol:


Last edited by bewitched gti on Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:15 am 
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yer right, doesn't mean anything, except that he's willing to minimally pay $125 to attempt to win a metal aftermarket hood, but that's his opening bid and the auction has just begun. it'll say alot more when the auction is finished and what it will take to even acquire it.

what it does speak of is that parts are getting rather scarce and hard to source. even more scarce are aftermarket options. it takes a bit more effort to grasp the point of the my post. but thanks chiming in so timely with your explanation and viewpoint.

as a mod, I'd hope you would support and promote the evolution of aftermarket upgrades for our common interest, regardless of the intial hurdles. if this effort were easy, a cf option would look, I'm retarded already be available and this topic would be moot.

tuffcarguy wrote:
he is buying a hood for his car,and he is a member here. that doesnt mean he wants to buy a cf hood. let alone 400 bucks plus shipping for a cf hood.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:42 am 
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Not trying to go off topic with this but I think your missing the point here. The whole thing started when you said it had to be in the buy sell section and we said that it didn't. That is not us saying that it isn't a good idea. It's keeping threads where they belong. There is no lack of encouragement either. It's just that this isn't the first post about a CF hood group buy and previous ones have fallen through. Most members, I would think, will want to see a picture of the actual product before commiting a lot of money to a purchase..not a pic of a Honda hood that says "It'll look just like this one".

Suggestions:

- Get a firm price on what it would cost to purchase.

- May as well see what colours you can get them done in too so that you can please everybody.

- Figure out the weight. making a hood that is much lighter than the factory hood with the bracing out will be very difficult...even with CF. Our hoods weigh next to nothing as it is and to spend $300 to save a pound of weigh is difficult for some people to rationalize. This will likely be better suited to the more "ricer" crowd....which you will have lot's of anyways.

Once all that is done and you have somebody to make it who won't back out at the last minute then you can start a post about it and you'll see....there will be quite a few interested parties.

If this falls through there is no reason why you can't make your own hood. it's surprisingly not that difficult and if your careful you can even use a hodd as a mold so that you get all the bracing and such shaped into the CF mat. there are also quite a few custom shops that can cover your OEM hood with a layer of CF if your just going for looks.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:54 am 
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m wrote:
This will likely be better suited to the more "ricer" crowd....which you will have lot's of anyways.



Here we go folks. Sine when is carbon fiber considered rice? This is coming from a guy that painted his hood black to have the look. Some of us want cars that are clean and have a nice finish. I personally don't want to open my hood and have it all hacked up. It also affects the structural integrity and for me it's pretty impotant since our cars are virtually made out of paper and upon impact pretty much decinagrate. Anyways back on topic. I would like to see a CF hood on a swift just for the rust factor alone.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:58 am 
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m is right on the money here. The previous attempts at setting up a CF group buy all died on the vine because they never got out of the "I know a guy works with CF" stage. There's many reasons a CF hoods are going to be a hard sell:

• They're expensive. For the price you'd be well on your way towards a well made turbo manifold. Gee tough choice here.

• Affordability. $600 is a lot of money for someone to spontaniously generate on short term notice. All prior group buys that have succeeded owe much of their success to the purchase of smaller inexpensive parts. For the same reason, I can guarantee you we will never have a Quaife differential group buy succeed.

• The DIY approach. Working with CF isn't terribly difficult, most of costs are from the time consuming labor of working with the material as opposed to paying for specialized skills or materials cost. Any number of us could slap a CF hood together. Many of us would prefer to figure out how to make one ourselves than pay someone else to do it for us.

• We're cheap. This forum has the most posts I've seen anywhere with regard to ghetto-rigging, Home Depot parts etc. This isn't a bad thing, I'm certainly not condeming this practice (I'm guilty of it myself :lol: ). It's just that most of us want value for our money, and we often look for practical alternatives instead of flashy bling.

• It's mostly an appearance mod. Most people install CF hoods because they look cool. Even though CF is intended as the ulimate material for lightweight weight parts, there's only a tiny handful of people that would buy it for it's intended purpose. If you haven't stripped your car of its existing dead weight, you're wasting your money buying one. I myself am crazy enough to put a CF hood on my car just for the weigh savings, but I'm not paying $600 for the privilege of dropping a few pounds. I suspect few others will either.

• You can't middle-man group-buys. Unless you put your money where your mouth is, pony up the cash and MAKE A MOLD, this is never gonna happen. If you sit on the sidelines and try to coerce other people to give money to a 3rd party to make YOUR product, you shouldn't expect much response. Organizing a group buy is asking for faith from your buyers, give them something to believe in.

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 Post subject: Lihtans view
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:04 pm 
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Fair enough...well thought out points
Hope my opinons are regarded as advice, not gospel
Can personally say I will one day make mould off hood just so I have one...but priority list is large and this honestly wont happen for some time.
However, faith in reputation is what hooks us the trade prices\mates rates eh....PM me if you have a workable solution...Money where my mouth is, I`m scrapeing for parts as are we all, but I will happily lend support (donate a few dollar$) if job gets done...just a matter of time.
great to see strong views and solutions all rolled into one, forums are for discussing info and I think anyone can see we are making progress.
Group buys can be disappointing eh.....
-Bewitched :yeahyeah

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manaibve wrote:
I need the following.....rear defrog switch-
thatll keep the slimy little beggars off the hatch glass :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:36 pm 
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I agree w/ the chadiator. I'm no ricer either. in fact, mine's a beater. I could care less about buying a hood right now, since mine works just fine (check my pics). but if I were to get one, I want a CF one...why?...because it's better than the shite that we have to swabble over now, rusted parts that we still gotta bondo and weld back rusty latch points, and still get ripped off on shipping scams.

if something could be done, or somone could do it now, and done at reasonable cost, I would buy into it. but it wouldn't end there for me... I would want to be part owner of the mold, since that makes it a group effort and group ownership. I would want that even if successive runs weren't necessarily profitable.

chadiator wrote:
m wrote:
This will likely be better suited to the more "ricer" crowd....which you will have lot's of anyways.



Here we go folks. Sine when is carbon fiber considered rice? This is coming from a guy that painted his hood black to have the look. Some of us want cars that are clean and have a nice finish. I personally don't want to open my hood and have it all hacked up. It also affects the structural integrity and for me it's pretty impotant since our cars are virtually made out of paper and upon impact pretty much decinagrate. Anyways back on topic. I would like to see a CF hood on a swift just for the rust factor alone.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:48 am 
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shagpal wrote:
I could care less about buying a hood right now, since mine works just fine



wow shag... the name of this thread is"Com'mon! I wanna Carbon Fiber hood!" and YOU started it. :? two pages of ....... oh forget it. and you wonder why a group buy is hard to do :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:11 am 
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sure, but yer a party pooper, so I can do without it. I'd rather do without it than to have to beg a mod for the bandwidth see something positive.

if it happens, great, but at least I tried, so good day to you.

tuffcarguy wrote:
shagpal wrote:
I could care less about buying a hood right now, since mine works just fine



wow shag... the name of this thread is"Com'mon! I wanna Carbon Fiber hood!" and YOU started it. :? two pages of ....... oh forget it. and you wonder why a group buy is hard to do :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:35 am 
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chadiator wrote:
Here we go folks. Sine when is carbon fiber considered rice? This is coming from a guy that painted his hood black to have the look.


I'll answer both your points here...

1. Carbon Fiber is considered rice when your not buying it for a performance enhancement. It's also considered rice when 99% of the people who would buy it are doing it strictly for looks. Did I say there was something wrong with that? No. How much weight do you think you will lose putting on a carbon fiber hood compared to a stripped OEM one? I can get rust free hoods pretty easily so going to CF just to stop my hood from rusting is an expensive mod. Since your going for pure performance though you should have no issue buying a CF hood that has no clear coat on it right? After all the clear coat adds precious grams to the hood itself and 99% of CF used in racing applications are not cleared for just this reason. I suppose you will get a few harcore guys that will spend the extra cash to save a pound but if you look at the market for CF, which you clearly haven't, you'll see that you can buy a whole shit load of CF "racing" canards, emblems, and side mirrors for your race car...errr...Honda DX. I'm not hating on the ricer crowd either. Unfortunately the term "ricer" has become somewhat of a generic term for anybody who wants to add a personal touch to there cars. It has, howver, also become the word given to people who make there ride look like a racecar but does the 1/4 in 22 seconds. I'm all for them personaly. Without them I wouldn't make any money doing custom fiberglass work for them. When I start doing carbon fiber you can be damn sure that I will target the "ricer" crowd as they seem to want to spend all there cash on these replicas of real race parts. I will have some stuff for real racing too....just not as many people to buy in to them.

2. I got a chuckle out of the second statement. What gives you the idea I painted my hood black to get a carbon fiber look? My car is black. If your talking about the yellow one I just got well....I didn't paint the hood so that it would look cool sitting in my garage while the car get's stripped and prepped for paint. It so happens the car came with a black hood...flat black primer at that. Very funny idea though....glad you came up with that one :screwball:.

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Last edited by m on Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:13 pm 
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I don't see what the big deal is, if I got CF it'd be for the look. :huh:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:21 pm 
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com'mon. put the rhetoric to rest boys. what's the big deal with trying to take a stab at it, be it again or fer real for the first time, for looks, for performance, or just so we have a new source if we want one.

to be honest, I much prefer the way a metro hood looks. there's lots more of them, and they are much cheaper and easier to get. swap 2 front lights and the top bumper, and voila! more color choices, tons of them in great condition in junkyards. here in cali, a clean hood can be had for $17 at the pick-n-pull sale.

I've seen mod after mod put this down like there's something to prove, or some snide ash comment that is just so a personal snicker can be worked in here or there.

we're here for a common purpose. if someone can make a few coins offa trying to make it happen, great, I'm all fer it. if it's a group thing, great, I'm in for that too. if someone needs help, I'm in for that too. it'll take discussion and lots of teamwork to make it happen, but that's why it's called "team" swift here and not team "thrift".


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:13 pm 
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shagpal wrote:
I've seen mod after mod put this down like there's something to prove, or some snide ash comment that is just so a personal snicker can be worked in here or there.


Why do you think EVERYONE is out to squash your hopes? :shock:

m made a good point in saying that it was moved (by me) to keep the forum in order. If/when you get them made, post them for sale in the for sale section.

And - these are thrify cars. It's hard to see a lot of people here dropping $600 for something when they're not willing to pay half of retail for something brand new (just an example).

I'm not putting this idea down, but it is a difficult group buy to manage due to costs - good luck either way.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:07 pm 
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not everybody. there's optimism out there. I think everyone would want to see something like this happen, optimist like me and skeptics alike.

I realize the chances are not good, I've read that thru earlier threads, as I'm sure others have.

I do agree with moving the thread in order to keep the order, but I do think that it had better hopes if it was stuck in the buy/sell section to push it. it may be inappropriate there, but it coulda done a better job in fueling the possibility.

I also understand the "thrift" aspect, but so what? when was the last time teamswift = thrift store?

if I can be a catalyst to make something happen, or over pay a bit for a part in order to support a push to make something happen, I don't see why even the thought of it has to stir up so much negativity.

here, it's developed into mere canon foder. just read the replies. it's become more or less a political discussion where everyone has to get in some personal bytes, mods included about the merits and price of what each individual wants and expects to pay.

it's developed to the point that....we've even got aussies lecturing us about the fact that there's no "I" in "team".

Daley wrote:
shagpal wrote:
I've seen mod after mod put this down like there's something to prove, or some snide ash comment that is just so a personal snicker can be worked in here or there.


Why do you think EVERYONE is out to squash your hopes? :shock:

m made a good point in saying that it was moved (by me) to keep the forum in order. If/when you get them made, post them for sale in the for sale section.

And - these are thrify cars. It's hard to see a lot of people here dropping $600 for something when they're not willing to pay half of retail for something brand new (just an example).

I'm not putting this idea down, but it is a difficult group buy to manage due to costs - good luck either way.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:35 am 
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after some thought, I think I've managed to consider possible solution out of my earlier reply in this thread....

perhaps creating swift parts is all wrong because the market won't support. however, I for every running swift I have seen on the road here in nor cal, I've seen 20 times that of metros running on the road. is it possible that coming out with metro hood prototype first could allow success to expand into prototyping and producing a swift version?

certainly, metros are too much of a budget car to want to mod, but who really knows. most metro guys come to the teamswift forum to get their info and answers anyways. perhaps producing metro parts that will also swap into our swifts is a faster way to achieve a recover of costs to sustain and justify a group initiative by the mere fact of the sheer number of metros running on the road.

yeah, I can hear the laughs now...but I think there are more metro owners interested in keeping the thrifty 3 bangers but making it look nice...more than we might think.

for this reply, I'm putting it out for comment. and since this thought can seem somewhat outrageous, I consider it fair game....

Daley wrote:

I'm not putting this idea down, but it is a difficult group buy to manage due to costs - good luck either way.



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:22 am 
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I think the big problem with it is actualy doing the sale as a group buy. I believe that if there was a carbon fiber hood available that they would sell well. Just not with a group buy. Think about it. If you look at most of the group buys here that have been successful they have been done with a deadline no longer than a month away. The items themselves have been of a much lower cost as well. This makes it easy for a lot of members to scrounge up the cost and send it out on "short" notice. A carbon fiber hood is gonna cost a lot more than the average group buy and, I believe, if you are to give people enough time to actualy save up the amount of money needed they will either a, lose interest, or b, keep putting it off until they don't have time anymore to save enough money.

I think your best bet is to get the mold made and get a few done for yourself. Once you have the product put them up for sale and you'll see them go one at a time. I know for a fact that you will be able to sell them over a period of time. It's just not viable as a group purchase. The only way I can see it working is to get a non-refundable deposit to at least cover yourself should they decide to back out of the deal. Of course then you have the issues of people trusting you with their money for a given period of time and that a whole nother story....

As for doing a Metro hood instead of a Swift I think you should stick with the Swift hood since there are more enthusiasts modifying them. Once you get established with the Swift hoods you could then start worrying about the Metro hood.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:40 pm 
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Shagpal would be Number one in Queue for Carbonhood.....
Anyone interested in providing? after all this thread is speculation to stir interest. Marketeers out there, want a piece? Create and we will buy. 8)
Best product guideline would be to create basic mould off geo front (grille\headlights) with rest of hood shaped to give swift raised centre, and frame underneath based on swift also.
Allows possibility of trimming front edges to create custom headlight line
Read: European styling of "Badboy" eyelids\hood
Hood would then be possible to fit to MKII swift,Geo,and MKIV last model prior to NEW swift with only trimming needed to suit.
Universal Carbon Hood if you will.
m has surmised the points well and now all that is needed is someone willing to wait for return on initial outlay.
Personally, I would be willing to DONATE a few Aussie pesos if interested parties PM me.

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....we've even got aussies lecturing us about the fact that there's no "I" in "team". -Shagpal

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manaibve wrote:
I need the following.....rear defrog switch-
thatll keep the slimy little beggars off the hatch glass :lol:


Last edited by bewitched gti on Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:25 am 
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okay, after all this talk about hoods, I've decided to do some CF hoods. my project won't happen till late summer, but I ran into some guys locally that does CF stuff, so their gonna help me do them.

I'm gonna start with metro hoods first, since all the swift owners here can't ante up, then perhaps swift hoods later if interest builds.

I'm also gonna do fenders and Vert trunk lids, but I'll do the metro hood first.

finally, I'd like to try to build an aftermarket hardtop for the vert.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:43 am 
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i'd kill for a carbon fiber rear hatch! and then i guess for show purposes, matching hood for my Swift.

ccRacer


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:54 am 
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shagpal wrote:
okay, after all this talk about hoods, I've decided to do some CF hoods. my project won't happen till late summer, but I ran into some guys locally that does CF stuff, so their gonna help me do them.

I'm gonna start with metro hoods first, since all the swift owners here can't ante up, then perhaps swift hoods later if interest builds.

I'm also gonna do fenders and Vert trunk lids, but I'll do the metro hood first.

finally, I'd like to try to build an aftermarket hardtop for the vert.



way to take some initiative!! :clap: :thumb2:

btw, i would be interested in a hard top.......

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 Post subject: carbon hood
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:46 pm
Posts: 269
Location: Collingwood, Ontario
I built a one off carbon hood for my ride, if you are considering the same I may have some tips, I'll post more photos when its done.


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