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 Post subject: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:52 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Any intrest in bolt on Cold Air Intake kits for the G10?

Interest dictates availability.

Not the crappy "kit" on Ebay. Something better, with a throttle body adapter.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:23 am
Posts: 61
Location: San Antonio, TX
i would like to have one but seems im the only one i was thinking of how to make one fro mine but with out using the stock filter housing that just looks getto even for me i wanted to turbo it but again the tbi wont let me no presure hats available where im at :(


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:07 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Medicine Hat AB
i would definatly want one too i got the gay ebay one i hate it the stock air filter housing looks dumb under the hood

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:28 am
Posts: 290
Location: McCall, Idaho (Native: So Cal)
Hello. I just added Ram Air to my G10. No, it's not real pretty but I think it added at least 8-10 horses, maybe more. It's "free" horsepower. Well, $25 for parts.

This site helped me decide between cold air (disconnect resonator box), turbo (excessive, expensive), supercharging ($100 eBay fan) and ram air: http://www.karlsnet.com/mopar/ramair.shtml (for what it's worth).

I used black 2" diameter PVC from the local hardware store. A 90 deg. bend at the snorkel, 2" flexable 'hot tub' PVC pipe to a 90 bend down at the front frame. Cut hole in sheet metal and 90 out through front bumper. The hot tub hose is wrapped with Aluminum tape. If you use just black PVC you could paint it. I'll improve it this summer.

I did get water at the K&K air filter during a snow storm so I am adding a foam filter in the snorkel or nylon screen over the "scoop." I may just add a 90 down tube to the scoop for only getting cold air in the winter. I could send pics. Still more hp. :mrgreen:

Have fun,
BadBent

1991 junked Geo, Ram Air/K&N Filter, Flame Thrower Coil, 3 Tech 9mm Plug Wires, Suzuki Racing Development Underdrive Pulley and Racing Header, Catco Cat. Conv., Jones Thunderbolt glasspack, Kazespeed Perf. Voltage Stabilizer/Ground kit and floor Strut Bar, Drilled/Slotted Rotors, KYB suspension.

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Have fun,
Bad Bent
'91 Metro, rescued from trip to junk yard. SuzukiRD Underpulley & Header. 3Tech 9mm plug wires & 218/350 cam +10 gear, Bosch Plat. +4s, FlameThrowerII, synthetic fluids. K&N, Optima, Catco, Jones glasspack, & KYB struts. Vortekx Generators, Air dam, 7mm ground system, Ram Air. No TBI bridge. No A/C - roof scoop works.
'96 Metro - The Wife's car: SuzukiRD Underpulley, 3Tech econo cam +10 gear, K&N, KYB, Bosch, Syn. & grounded. No TBI bridge.


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:40 am
Posts: 295
Location: Hamlet , North Carolina
Well wish i could post a pic but in the sticks the dail up is slow.. But i ordered a 3'' aluminum pipe from an online co. about 4 ft and took it to my friends machine shope and bent in formed till i was satisfied and works awesome big improvent..details ...Well couldnt find a pressure hat but used silicone adapter to factory cover then bent to fit between the motor mount and timeingcover then bend to the front bump open with K&N cone filter looks coollll and performe even better . Im in the works also to build them to sell..Price looking at $50 with 3''aluminum pipe and silicone adapter ..W/O s/h and filter.. but Im looking for cheaper pipe sources...so its ava.. to ya cheaper! Im not trying to take any of your Buisness man just posting and informing the peeps


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:14 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
lol, no you didnt add 8-10 horses to your engine with a ram air intake :rofl:

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1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:52 pm
Posts: 145
Location: OBX, NC
Never doubt the butt-dyno. After all that work I'm sure it felt like that much to him.


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:28 am
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Location: McCall, Idaho (Native: So Cal)
I would like to personally thank 'smokinstorm' for having the courage to say something positive. It is a very kind jesture and much appreciated. I apologize for the late response.

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Have fun,
Bad Bent
'91 Metro, rescued from trip to junk yard. SuzukiRD Underpulley & Header. 3Tech 9mm plug wires & 218/350 cam +10 gear, Bosch Plat. +4s, FlameThrowerII, synthetic fluids. K&N, Optima, Catco, Jones glasspack, & KYB struts. Vortekx Generators, Air dam, 7mm ground system, Ram Air. No TBI bridge. No A/C - roof scoop works.
'96 Metro - The Wife's car: SuzukiRD Underpulley, 3Tech econo cam +10 gear, K&N, KYB, Bosch, Syn. & grounded. No TBI bridge.


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:28 am
Posts: 290
Location: McCall, Idaho (Native: So Cal)
Vertical_downpoint has some nice Honda/Acura RAM air intakes on the web site:
http://www.abstractautoworks.com/

If we want horsepower without turbo or supercharging then consider how a conventional engine works. Air is pulled through the resonator box, air filter and throttle body. Remove the box, improve the air filter and the engine uses less energy to pull in the air, i.e. more horsepower. K&Ns' FAQ claims 1-4hp. Is 3hp reasonable? The Holy Grail is turbo. According to Terry Kizer, owner of Mr. Turbo '...the general rule is 10-12 horsepower for 1 PSI of turbo boost.' http://www.dragbike.com/news/02-00/prod ... bobusa.htm In simple terms tubos supply air pressure.

All I was saying is that at 60mph air flow through a 2" dia. tube that makes three 90 degree turns losing 50%/90 arrives at the throttle body at 7.5mph. Is it reasonable to assume that air forced through a 2" dia. tube at 7mph tube produces .8psi or 8hp. Even neutral pressure means my engine is working easier at pulling air into the cylinders and gives me more horsepower vs working to pull air in. Am I not being conservative here.

Ask Vertical_downpoint if their RAM air systems could be designed for the G10 if this sounds like it's worth it.

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Have fun,
Bad Bent
'91 Metro, rescued from trip to junk yard. SuzukiRD Underpulley & Header. 3Tech 9mm plug wires & 218/350 cam +10 gear, Bosch Plat. +4s, FlameThrowerII, synthetic fluids. K&N, Optima, Catco, Jones glasspack, & KYB struts. Vortekx Generators, Air dam, 7mm ground system, Ram Air. No TBI bridge. No A/C - roof scoop works.
'96 Metro - The Wife's car: SuzukiRD Underpulley, 3Tech econo cam +10 gear, K&N, KYB, Bosch, Syn. & grounded. No TBI bridge.


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:23 am
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Location: Washington, DC
.8 to 1.0 horsepower is more realistic. In winter you'll get better results pulling hot air from under the hood.

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:28 am
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Location: McCall, Idaho (Native: So Cal)
That's good Woodie. Anyone want to quote some reasonable sources to prove that ram air does not work? That ram air does not increase "the mass of air entering the engine?"

OK, this is just mental masturbation without some sustaining second/third opinions. Swift13b, Woodie. Have you installed ram air on a G10? Have you tested it on a dyno? Either of the above? No, I have not done the dyno but, based on other reports I at least installed ram air and tested it, i.e. drove it over familar conditions and the "butt dyno" believes the reports. Frankly, the engine runs smoother and sounds 'soooo sweet' and nothing you can say invalidates that.

In winter... no wait, warm air is denser than cold air? I want to get as much air in the cylinder as possible to support combustion so I should pull in warm air? Woodie, that's amazing.

"The manifold absolute pressure (MAP) measurement is used to meter fuel. The amount of fuel required is directly related to the mass of air entering the engine.The mass of air is proportional to the air density, which is proportional to the absolute pressure and inversely proportional to the absolute temperature. (See ideal gas law.) Engine speed determines the frequency, or rate, at which air mass is leaving the intake manifold and entering the cylinders... The higher absolute pressure in the intake manifold increases the air's density, and in turn more fuel can be burned resulting in higher output." Wikipedia.

Come on Woodie, it says "Inversely proportional to the absolute tempature." Why engineer $220 plus cold air intakes when everyone should be pulling in hot engine compartment air. You wouldn't believe my "butt dyno" says the engine is getting more power in winter with denser air in the cylinder mixing with the fuel. How about turbos using hot exhaust air to force cold air into cylinders.

So, it's been interesting. I am out of here.
Have fun,
BadBent


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:49 am 
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Location: Washington, DC
I didn't say it doesn't work. There is simply no way in hell it's giving you 8 - 10 hp. The Turbo version of this engine was only 73 hp, to suggest that $10 of plastic pipe could get it to 65 hp makes Suzuki look pretty stupid for spending so much on a turbo and intercooler.

My comment about hot air in the winter is based upon many people rigging up shrouds around the exhaust manifold for winter use. It works because it helps the gas evaporate, that's also why Suzuki installed a heater under the throttle body, guess they were stupid then too.

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:17 pm
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Location: Georgetown, Guyana
You want to "dyno-test" a ram air intake? Really?

Think about this - how does a ram air intake work?

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:32 am
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Location: India
Cold air is always welcome .... look at the graph and decide how you want to traet your engine... happily breathing or starving ??


Attachments:
air temp vs density.JPG
air temp vs density.JPG [ 36.33 KIB | Viewed 8744 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:39 am 
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Location: India
Also please note that with hot air intake you are likely to get lean mixture which cant produce more power than your stock intake. Better have cold air intake for real HP gain.

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:45 am 
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Location: McCall, Idaho (Native: So Cal)
Quote:
You want to "dyno-test" a ram air intake? Really?
Think about this - how does a ram air intake work?


I can't believe I'm doing this, OK, seriously?

Get a Shop-Vac 6.5-HP or a Mosstril 5000 set on reverse, a rheostat, dimmer switch and a hand held anemometer, wind speed meter. The 6.5 hp Shop Vac should produce more than the 175cfm the 4.5 does. Reduce the hose from 2.5" to 2" for more speed. Install the dimmer switch in-line or make a magic box with two 3-prong sockets, dimmer and a power cord. Maybe $300 total. Calibrate the dimmer switch to mph with the anemometer by placing the anemometer in front of Shop Vac exhaust hose and mark speeds on the magic box at rheostat increments. Have a technician increase the rate of flow with the rpm/speed increase while testing. Add a new column to the readout to include mph, use 2 Shop Vacs if necessary. Or go ask Volant.

http://www.volantperformance.com/faqs.a ... &ItemID=11

How can Volant make these claims? Can we extrapolate that we might get 4-5hp out of a Volant ram air for a G10? Can a G10 claim a conservative 3hp with the Volant engineering statement? I feel that in my "butt dyno" and gas pedal and damn, and it still sounds really, really good. Someone prove .8-1.0 hp, what is it getting? Offer even quasi scientific data?

Thanks, Fitsandys for the most excellent chart.

Why do we even think of changing our cars (9mm TeamSwift wires, K&N, MSD, resonator box, cams, pulleys, turbo etc.) if Suzuki gives us the best possible product. We are bad.

Again what about the nice cold air Vertical_downpoint can get for us?


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:27 pm
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
Not to say that a CAI doesn't add anything but really 8-10 hp is huge! especially since the motor in completely stock form makes about 55hp. Yes its true that the ram does free up some flow but if you really want to see how much it frees up take your car to a dyno, run it with and with without the ram and toss up some dyno sheets. People are skeptical about such large claims without actual proof. Just cause it sounds faster doesn't mean that it is faster lol.

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:14 pm 
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Location: Regina, SK
My intake pulls from behind the headlight... In city driving, the air is 1c higher than ambient. At higher speeds, 70kph+...

I get outside airtemp at the IAT sensor...

Short ram ftw!

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J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:30 pm 
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Location: florida usa
the perpose of the ram air is to extract cold air. not to make hp. but remember if add more air you have to equal it out with fuel. so you might have to get a piggy back ecu, or switch out fuel injectors, and to get more out of your money you should get a 3tech head and custom grind cam. wouldn't the ram air set off the map sensor?

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:48 pm 
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Location: Georgetown, Guyana
custom metro! wrote:
the perpose of the ram air is to extract cold air. not to make hp.


So - you're going to "extract" cold air - how? By forcing (or ramming) more air in?
When used in this context, wouldn't "ram" and "extract" be diametrically opposed concepts?
Why would you want to "extract" cold air, isn't the idea to get more, cold air in?
And last, but, by no means least - isn't the whole point of the exercise - to make hp?

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:26 pm 
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Location: florida usa
not really, i ment to catch the cold air. not to force it in. with colder air it mixes with the fuel better and also it cooles down the combustion chamber and with makes a better spark and bigger explostion. and then do you get slightly more hp. but if you force air in via. ram air (not boost!) would then it well be to much air and it will thin out the air/fuel mixture, and cause it run lean, very lean and might blow you motor form it running lean and burning the exhuast vavles out!!!!! i went to an automotive school and was there for 3 weeks and they were 6hrs classes and i passed with flying colors. then after is when i move to florida and yeah, here i am now. also if one would want the ultimate in fuel injection i read about taking a geo metro cylinder head and to drill out the 3 spots on the intake side of the head. if you look you will see the three spots. this is direct port injection. ok. it will go straight throught to the combustion chamber! this technology thats seen in the latest audis and other exotics! but this motor was designed in the late '80s? but anyways this would be sweet with a turbo intake manifold and a greddy hybrid t3/t4 turbo!!!! :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:44 pm 
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Location: florida usa
here i found this intake!


Attachments:
Metro.jpg
Metro.jpg [ 115.64 KIB | Viewed 7922 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Location: McCall, Idaho (Native: So Cal)
Well, I'll revisit this subject for fun...
wouldn't the ram air set off the map sensor? I found the purpose of the MAP sensor was to detect air pressure changes and increase or decrease fuel. That being said the question but if you force air in via. ram air (not boost!) would then it well be to much air and it will thin out the air/fuel mixture, and cause it run lean, very lean and might blow you motor form it running lean and burning the exhuast vavles out!!!!! is answered no. At least not in the year that I have had a 4" collector on my front bumper. Again at best my engine has 1 psi at the air filter? At worst it is not having to pull air from anywhere.

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Have fun,
Bad Bent
'91 Metro, rescued from trip to junk yard. SuzukiRD Underpulley & Header. 3Tech 9mm plug wires & 218/350 cam +10 gear, Bosch Plat. +4s, FlameThrowerII, synthetic fluids. K&N, Optima, Catco, Jones glasspack, & KYB struts. Vortekx Generators, Air dam, 7mm ground system, Ram Air. No TBI bridge. No A/C - roof scoop works.
'96 Metro - The Wife's car: SuzukiRD Underpulley, 3Tech econo cam +10 gear, K&N, KYB, Bosch, Syn. & grounded. No TBI bridge.


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:45 am
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Location: florida usa
look at this. if you want hp. then do this!


viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25103

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Cold Air Intake
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:57 am 
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Location: florida usa
and yes if it is hot air coming threw the map sensor. i know, i played trial & error. :huh: :blackeye: :twisted:

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