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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:45 am 
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keywords: Window Regulator Repair FAQ door crank slop play track channel whistle leak wet

The Problem:
Over time, most owners of MK2s/MK3s will have probably noticed problems
with the operation of the window mechanism. Symptoms include windows
that don't wind up completely, windows that go out of level as they're
being wound up and miscellaneous sealing problems (whistling, water
entry). This primary effects all MK2 and MK3 vehicles. Models with power
windows apparently suffer from have the same problem. This may
potentially be an issue with later model vehicles, but so far there is
no data to confirm this.

The source of the problem is the fixed horizontal guide track, which
over time elongates the width of the slot in the middle of it's track,
causing a number of alignment problems. This track bears the weight of
the window assembly, and apparently wasn't made strong enough to
withstand the lateral forces that eventually distort it. This track is
located close to the door handle, and is fixed in position on the door
(the other horizontal track is mobile, and carries the window glass).

The Solution:
A number of solutions have been proposed with limited success.
Attempting to salvage window regulator parts from a wrecking yard often
isn't a worthwhile effort, as most vehicles at the wrecking yard are
likely to suffer from this same problem. The parts are cheap, but
finding a regulator with little wear on it would be rare.

Usually the driver's side regulator wears out before the passenger side
one will. Unfortunately driver and passenger regulators are two
different units, so one can't just swap them. It is possible however, to
salvage parts from a vehicle where the driver and passenger seats are in
opposite locations. North American cars with LHD could use a salvaged
RHD passenger side regulator from a Japanese or Australian vehicle, and
recieve parts with considerably less wear than their own. Owners of RHD
vehicles could also use parts from LHD cars as well.

Obviously the best supply of functional regulators would be from a
supply of New Old Stock (NOS) or straight from the dealer. I have yet to
ever run across anyone carrying any NOS regulator parts, and the dealer
would be prohibitively expensive, assuming the parts were even available.

Even with the potential lack of reliable replacement parts, it's
entirely reasonable to repair it instead. I recently sat down and
realized that it's actually quite easy to repair the window regulator.
To begin the repair, the window regulator needs to be removed from the
door.

Tools:
• window crank clip remover
• panel popper
• 3/8" drive #3 Phillips driver (use a ratchet handle, NOT a screwdriver!)
• bench vise

Regulator Removal:
remove window crank
remove door panel
• peel off vapor barrier
• lower window down until glass mounting screws are visible from bottom
access hole
• remove glass mounting screws
Image

• slide window up window channel and lift out of door
• remove regulator mounting bolts
Image

• remove fixed horizontal guide track mounting bolts
Image]

• fold down regulator assembly
• remove regulator through bottom access hole

Performing the Repair:
If you sight down the length of the fixed horizontal guide track, you'll
probably see the slot is slighter wider in the middle. To restore the
normal width, place the track in a bench vise, and while still sighting
down the length of the track, start cranking the vise until the gap
narrows. The metal will act a bit like a spring, so you will need to
slightly overcompress it to get the gap to come out straight. Be certain
to stop once it's straight. If the gap is too narrow, you will likely
have other problems with your regulator. Remove the track from the vise
and check that the guide roller slides freely down the track.

Lubrication:
Since your regulator is out, now would also be a good time to lubricate the tracks,
pivot points and the gear teeth. I used grease on the tracks and gear
teeth, and motor oil on the pivots.

Image

Finishing:
Once you're done follow the reverse
of removal procedure. The placement and position of the fixed horizontal
guide track is quite important. The mounting holes in the door are
enlarged purposely so you can adjust the positioning and the levelling
of the window glass. Adjust this so that upper rear edge of the window
makes good contact with the rubber seal. I found setting the screws to
the bottom of the holes worked best. Test the regulator with the window
crank before you put the door panel back on. You should now have a
window with firmer, more reliable operation and noticeably absent slop
from the regulator. Put the door panel back on, and clean off those
grease stains you left on the window.

After Repair:
Image

Image

EDIT: fixed broken image links

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:48 pm 
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awsome thanks for the info this really helps me kharma for you :worship:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:36 pm 
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Location: Gatineau (near Ottawa)
Just tried, it works and it's super easy to do, thanks!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:51 pm 
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wow, nice work...so now I have to add that to the list of things to do to my car...the ever growing list

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:27 pm 
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Location: Gatineau (near Ottawa)
it takes about 15 minutes to do, the only problem I have now is that my regulator handle won't stay in place, I can't plug it back tightly, it always falls off when I close my door...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:27 pm 
There is an additional problem that plagues the window regulators. The teeth on the large gear that is turned by the small gear that is attached to the crank bend, brake or wear down. Is there a solution to that problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:41 am 
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Location: oshawa
i am just curious. does this guide work on mk4's as well? because my window wont go up all the was and i have to lift the top front edge(front wheel, closest to the roof) in order to put the window up all the way.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:46 pm 
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Your symptoms sound like you have an elongated track slot. I'd give the repair documented here a shot.

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jaguar,vettes&sprints wrote:
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( miracle pour hole)
maybe a picture Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:22 am 
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Location: Atlanta, GA. USA
I have done this repair before and it works well. But you can only reshape the fixed horizontal guide track so many times. I bought a new one from Suzuki and guess what the new one has a solid guide track. And yes mine is a two door. It was $55.00 USD dealer cost. I do not think it will be a problem again.


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 1:14 am 
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Location: kingston
only 55? i saw one of those sell on ebay for 90 bux, wow,


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 2:51 pm 
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Location: burlington,ontario
MatLax wrote:
it takes about 15 minutes to do, the only problem I have now is that my regulator handle won't stay in place, I can't plug it back tightly, it always falls off when I close my door...


did you take off the clip be for removeing the handle. i broke my passenger side handle now the clip dosent go back in and the handle falls off all the time.

fixed my window today at school and it work perfectly, thank for the write up.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:14 pm 
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Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
A "new" handle is about 1 dollar at a wrecker

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:58 am 
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Anonymous wrote:
There is an additional problem that plagues the window regulators. The teeth on the large gear that is turned by the small gear that is attached to the crank bend, brake or wear down. Is there a solution to that problem.


I had a similar problem with mine (but they were a bit worse...) and ended up building up all the damaged teeth with a welder and then filing new teeth out :D It works a lot better than the old one but still not super smooth...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:29 am 
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Location: Pacific NorthWET, WA
So, after squeezing the fixed horizontal regulator channel back into shape, there is another step you can take to keep the slot from widening in the middle again.

If you look at the inner door frame, you’ll notice two dimples that stand the bracket off about 5/16”. The rivet head that holds the roller in place is only about 1/16 inch thick. so there is a 1/4 inch of clearance between the rivet head and the door frame.

I took a piece of sheetmetal about 1” wide and bent it into a C shape and welded it to the toes of the channel in the center of the slot. I left enough clearance so the rivet head passes under the sheet metal brace, but it is still well under 1/4 inch tall. I suppose a 2 or 3" wide bridge would be better still.

Image

This will increase the stiffness of that bracket quite a bit as both the upper and lower toes now share the load.

Also that channel is symetric, so you can spin it around 180 deg and wear the other side.

Last my window was binding on its front edge, make sure the rear screw of the horizontal bracket is as low in the slot as it will go. I should probably slot mine some more to improve the adjustment.

Enjoy!


Last edited by Floggolf on Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:25 am 
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I used the above post's idea. It works great. I used a sliding drawer roller guide which fit perfectly. I cut the roller guide 1" wide then spot welded it in place. Use white lithium grease it works great. Here is a couple pics.
Image
Image


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:01 am 
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Location: Pacific NorthWET, WA
nice welds.

You might want to deburr/ bevel the undesides where the rivet head passes under the brace to reduce the chance that it hangs up. The roller has some slop (mine was worn quite a bit). I snipped my metal back a little and bent the 'tabs' up a couple degrees.

Glad you found it useful.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:10 am 
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Location: Finland Europe
Thanks for help! Now I can smoke with drivers window open :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:12 pm 
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Siikki wrote:
Thanks for help! Now I can smoke with drivers window open :)


its good to have goals. :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:31 am 
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Another success! Took about an hour with a messy garage, from start to finish, plus I had a fairly mangled mechanism to go with the infamous guide track. In fact, I think the mechanism was more of a mess than the track, but even so, it's a fairly easy fix and well worth the little bit of time it takes to fix it.

Also, spray some silicone lube on the window tracks before you put the window back in. That'll help reduce the amount of stress that gets put on the whole mechanism from rolling the window up and down. Do it for both the driver's and passenger's side windows, while you're at it.


Chris


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 Post subject: help with window
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:04 pm 
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The information here is great!!! My problem is just a little different. The window has seperated from the channel. I tried but I can't seem to get it back in.

I have the rubber piece, a window and the regulator. Does the channel seperate from the regulator? If so, do I then hammer it back on to the window?

I don't smoke anymore, but it's a pain at the ATM!!!

:)

1996 metro 4dr sedan 1.3L 4 cyl AT w/ AC everything stock and appartently original equipment. (except for a soleniod that I just replaced)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:55 am 
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I've observed a similar window channel problem myself. On the passenger side of my car, if you wind the window down, the window gets pulled away from the track, then goes back in when you wind it up :shock:. The issue appears to be gummed up lubrication (the glass doesn't slide smoothly across the regulator, and tends to get carried away).

I would suggest taking your entire window assembly apart, cleaning and lubing everything and putting it back together. The vertical metal window track that the rubber channel sits in does not have to be removed.

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jaguar,vettes&sprints wrote:
...can you inlighten me about lihtan's
( miracle pour hole)
maybe a picture Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:23 pm 
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unfortunatly, the window is not attached to the track any more and I can't seem to get it back together easily. I am guessing that the rubber goes into the track and then the window goes into that. But I want to do it in the right order.

with the rubber peice in the track there doesn't look to be more then 1/8" of gap. And the window is much thinker then that.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:09 pm 
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Hi, everybody I have a 1991 Suzuki Swift Gt

This forum has helped me fix a lot of my problems! ! ! But

my drivers side window still goes off to the side. I greased & lubed &

tighten up all the regulator parts, & it helped for a while but now I have

the same problem again. If you look inside your door theres a rubber

that goes into the metal track & it keeps the window griped into the track

so it don't slide out while rolling up & down the window.

That rubber part in my car has become brittle and now it broke

off! Where do I find that rubber part for my car?

Please help this problem is really annoying at toll boths !!!!

Any ideas???? :?

P.S. And I forgot to add that the drivers side howls like a bat out of hell when I drive at high speeds! How can I correct this problem.

Thanks ! ! ! your friendly neighborhood dasaniracing man ! ! !

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:40 am 
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I'd hit a wrecking yard, and grab a new track. You can use the same window track from a MK2-MK3 Sprint, Metro, Firefly or Swift.

If you're getting wind howling, it's either because your window isn't sealing properly, or your door isn't completely sealing to the body. Fixing your window regulator will take care of the window sealing problem, repositioning the door strike will take care of the door problem.

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jaguar,vettes&sprints wrote:
...can you inlighten me about lihtan's
( miracle pour hole)
maybe a picture Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:47 am 
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I realize you are working on something that looks more like this:

Image

And the above information (Mk2/MK3) means you can find a door at the junkyard from 1989 to 1994 which will serve your purposes...

In New York, you have lots of rust issues. We just fixed a window with exactly the problem you described.

It was because the two screws which hold the vertical tracks for your weather stripping had become loose, or were out of adjustment. Look for the two phillips head screws at the front of the door once you get the panel and plastic off. Reach inside the door and see if the metal channel which holds your weatherstripping is firmly in place, or has become loose, or worse, has rusted out. Here is a picture of a similar door...passenger side, wrong year, but will help describe what I'm talking about...

Image


If you look carefully, between the white arrows, in the hole in the door panel, you can barely see the weatherstrip/window felt firmly inside its channel. Your car is notorious for the equivalent part coming loose, at least in our part of the 'woods'...
It may be so bad that you will have to either have a new hole welded, or it might be easier just to get a door which has no rust issues...


Glad to know this site is helping you out; kindly post if you can help others with problems you think you can solve.



AND GET RID OF THOSE PESKY TOLL BOOTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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