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 Post subject: Re: GTi Dyno Runs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2001 9:19 am
Posts: 971
Location: Canada
Kyle, did you put the new tranny "setup" in too? <p>Tony<br><br>Proud owner of<br>1970 AMX 360/auto with A/C<br>1989 Suzuki Swift GTi<br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: GTi Dyno Runs
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:02 pm 
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Senior Swift Guru

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 11:55 am
Posts: 2595
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Thanks for the email mrchief. What were the mods done to yours again? I will pretty up the web page I put them on soon. Here is the temporary page for now. <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ky3/teamswift/dynos.html">www.angelfire.com/ky3/tea...dynos.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>I think it's great to see these dyno runs from all GTis out there, so if you have some, please send them.<br><br>Tony, I am working on it. I'm going to pick up another transmission first and then put it in. I do need the new set up... if I try and launch or shift hard between gears it gets a bit silly. <br><br><br><br> <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: GTi Dyno Runs
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:17 pm 
whattheeee, what did u think of my dyno result??? and the mods are on the first page of the topic...okey<br><br><br>toNy <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: GTi Dyno Runs
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 9:17 am 
Very nice numbers Kyle!!!Very impressive man...lets see some slips now.<br><br>Btw it looks like my engine in there....with that yellow valve cover hehehe<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: GTi Dyno Runs
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:00 pm 
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Senior Swift Guru

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 11:55 am
Posts: 2595
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Thanks for the compliments. I know I'm happy to see some positive results from my labouring. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> Track time hopefully within the next few weeks. I've been too busy to head down and race lately. The yellow must mean 'turbo edition' <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :p --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Mrchief, your dyno doesn't look too bad. It does look a little too low overall, but that could just be a function of the different dyno. Your power curve actually doesn't look like there is anything seriously wrong and you don't have the same dip in the lower rpms that my stock motors seem to suffer from. Some of the motor work likely paid off (I think that dyno is showing low 'corrected' numbers).<br><br>One thing I can say is that you definetely shut down tooo soon which hurt your 'peak numbers'. The power band was still rising and you stopped the dyno run. You should have run to at least 7500rpms (fuel cut), and even a run to 8000rpms with those camshafts would have been nice to see. If you are racing on the street... definetely take it up to 7500rpms minimum!! I noticed your VE point looks to be 500rpms later than mine... a function of the different cams and a sign that you should be revving higher. <br><br>If you have another chance, you might want to try a different dyno (Dynojets seems to be somewhat repeatable), and also definetely take my advice and rev it allll the way to fuel cut... or get a chip and rev it a little higher than 7500rpms (north american fuel cut mind you). <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: GTi Dyno Runs
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:21 pm 
<br>Whattheee, i know what u mean...i could of gone more in the rpm (fuel cut at 7500rpm) but i have a stock ecu that was the problem. i do rev it high and it goes...i can feel the differences from bout 3500 - 4000 up rpm with the racing camshaft from the stock ones. i will be soon gettin the link intercept chip so we shall see what happens and i will give u the result...okey<br><br>toNy <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Dyno Figures
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:10 pm 
If your gettin say 80bhp at the wheels whats that roughly at the engine/flywheel? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: GTi Dyno Runs
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 11:47 pm
Posts: 1974
Location: San Juan, Argentina
Hey MrChief, I saw your dyno run and I think there's something wrong with it. At 6600 RPM, with 197Nm of torque you should be making 136 KW or 182 HP from the following formula.<br><br>P=T x RPM x 6.28/60000<br><br>T= toqrue [Nm]<br>P=Power [KW]<br><br>So maybe the dyno sensors were out of calibration or something was plugged the wrong way. Just think of your max torque, 197Nm is 142lb.ft... quite similar to Kyle's at 9.5psi of boost !!! Impossible for a N/A car. What is the list of mods done ? What kind of cams ??? <p>'95 Suzuki Swift GTi tuned by HM Competición</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub83.ezboard.com/bteamswift.showUserPublicProfile?gid=caaarlo>Caaarlo</A> at: 6/30/03 4:35 pm<br></i>


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 Post subject: Re: GTi Dyno Runs
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:51 pm 
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Senior Swift Guru

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 11:55 am
Posts: 2595
Location: Calgary, Alberta
oh crap... I was wondering waht Caarlo was talking about. Went back and I looked at the torque numbers and they are completely wrong. I thought I saw that as 98nM or something originally. So 72 lb/ft and 74hp at the wheels not revving all the way up...<br><br>198nM with that horsepower is either is not a GTi motor, or some very weird non-rotational torque conversion I haven't seen before. Do you know the story there mrchief? <br><br><br><br><br><br> <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: GTi Dyno Runs
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 1:21 am 
i seriously dont know what is goin on...all i know is that the guy told me if i want max power i need a full after market comp...this guy is well known, everyone goes to him.<br>the mods are:<br><br>port n polish head (bored exhaust manifold)<br>group A camshafts<br>extractor 4-2-1<br>2" piping exhuast<br>air pod<br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: dyno runs!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:07 pm 
my Gt 94´in the 3th runs...97hp at wheells at 7110rpm<br><br>now my gti got a chip, racing port, news pistons and rings<br><br>i think runs 110hp at wheels....promise pics<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: dyno runs!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 10:15 pm
Posts: 218
How can you tell the power at the flywheel with the numbers you have at the wheels???<br> <p>______________________________________________________<br>Powered by a lawnmower, but still kicking ass<br><br>1989 Suzuki swift GTi<br>1991 Pontiac Firefly Turbo<br>1992 suzuki swift GLX 1.6<br>1995 Pontiac Firefly 4 doors GTi<br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: dyno runs!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:22 pm 
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Senior Swift Guru

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 11:55 am
Posts: 2595
Location: Calgary, Alberta
A quick and general lesson for others...<br><br>"Generally" manufacturers rate engine horsepower at the flywheel. That is, your motor is basically sitting there on a stand before it goes through the drive train on the car, the exhaust, and various things. <br><br>When you put it on the dyno, you have losses all through the drivetrain to consider and because of the specifics of different drivetrains (AWD, RWD, FWD) there are different losses for every vehicle. After the power the engine is making finally makes it's way to the ground there are generally from 15%-30% losses. In order to find out how much horsepower you are making at the flywheel, you have to know how much power you are losing through the drivetrain.<br><br>For example, our Gti engine is rated at 100hp at the flywheel. So Let's say a 100% stock GTi went and dynod 84hp@wheels, we could say that 84% of the power that is at the flywheel is making it to the ground. That means that if hte manufacturers ratings are correct for flywheel hp, there are 16% losses in drive-train to be assumed on a GTi (my car dyno'd 84hp@wheels with good condition motor and intake/exhaust... how much intake/exhaust added over stock... who knows. I haven't seen a 100% stock GTi around here for a long time). <br><br>So now you go slap on a junk-yard turbo on your once stock GTi and you dyno 151.7hp@wheels. Seeing as you already have your figure for drive-train loss on your car you would just go 151.7hp/.84 and you would get a magical 180.6hp@flywheel. If I didn't know any better I could assume even more losses and assume more flywheel horsepower.<br><br>Assuming 16% losses on our cars would actually be fairly low, but it's quite possible. The only true way to know would be to dyno a stock GTi engine out of the car at the flywheel like the manufacturers do, and then dyno it in the car. The reason I suggest that is because manufacturers flywheel horsepower numbers don't always match up when production comes around. <br><br>To give an idea of how drive-train losses from car to car can vary (even both FWD/RWD/AWD), here is a comparison of my car vs. a FWD Type R VTEC which is rated at 190hp (this Type-R is not stock either, but on the same dyno with close to same run conditions). You'll see that I have way more torque and only a few less peak hp. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ky3/teamswift/swiftcomparison.html">www.angelfire.com/ky3/tea...rison.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br> <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: power
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 5:20 am 
whattheee,<br>if i dyno my car with heavy wheels will it show a loss of power as compared to dynoing it with lighter wheels <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: power
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 9:50 am
Posts: 545
Location: Cracow, Poland
I have acces to dyno that can measure power losses on transmission!<br>When I finally get my car running fair good (almost done it) and print those charts I'll post them asap<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Here's chart of friend's fiat from that dyno:<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://autokacik.pl/files/270697976-brava80.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: power
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 9:50 am
Posts: 545
Location: Cracow, Poland
<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://colin_sport.w.interia.pl/auto/screenshot.bmp" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br>Here's everything You need<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>165/55/13 steels were used on almost stock mk1 :P <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: power
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:24 pm 
My Mods are as follows<br><br>Topspeed Air Filter<br>4-1 Exhaust Manifold<br>Janspeed 2" Exhaust system without cat<br>Stage 2 Chip fom Web store<br>Bosch super 4 spark plugs<br>17" Alloy wheels<br>Cold air feed <br><br>My power at the flywheel was 141 bhp<br><br>a printout of the dyno results can be seen on my website<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.geocities.com/swiftgti141">www.geocities.com/swiftgti141</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>This was a much higher power output than I expected<br><br>Ohh yeah and I also run it on Shell Optimax fuel all the time which is 98 ron, I think this might be why it spits flames, <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :evil --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub83.ezboard.com/bteamswift.showUserPublicProfile?gid=ukswiftgti@teamswift>UkSwiftGti</A> at: 7/19/03 3:37 pm<br></i>


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 Post subject: Re: power
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 11:47 pm
Posts: 1974
Location: San Juan, Argentina
Interesting, but hard to believe with those mods, stock cams and stock CR. It would have been nice to see the plot beyond 7500 as it still makes power. <p>'95 Suzuki Swift GTi tuned by HM Competición</p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: power
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2002 5:10 pm
Posts: 1644
Location: Brisbane
The uk dynos seem to read unrealistically high. I recall talking to a uk guy that was claiming 119bhp from a filter and some leads.....riiiight. The dyno sheet backed up his claim....but that is 19% more power than from factory! <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: power
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:13 pm 
Could it be due to the fact that we use a much richer grade of fuel in the uk, I use 98 octane petrol which contribute to a far more productive burn than 92 octane (is that what you guy run on in the US)<br>The evidence is on my swift website in black and white and the dyno I was tested on is run by a very well established turning company.<br>What can I say? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: dyno runs
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:29 pm 
i used 92 octane. and when i switched to 9<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8o --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/nerd.gif ALT="8o"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ctane i only noticed better fuel economy...no performance gain.<br>my car got filter and computer.<br>now i use 95 octane<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: dyno runs
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:49 pm 
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Senior Swift Guru

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 11:55 am
Posts: 2595
Location: Calgary, Alberta
How does a 'rolling road' give flywheel horsepower? In my mind, it can't. With dyno results like that, I would definetely use it as a tuning aid. i.e. <br><br>The load based dynos that apply brakes to bare gripless metal often have mystifying results and are known to be inconsistent as they absorb power actively. Besides that, tire pressures, wheel alignment, slippage on rollers, tires size, gearing, etc. etc. can all have effects on numbers. Picking up 30hp through 3-4 extra octane points is impossible on our 1.3Ls. If you have 92-94 'crap' gas somewheres, put it in and see if you lose 30hp. <br><br>Inertia dynos are more accurate and harder to manipulate and a good dyno operator will be honest and know the reasons for some inconsistencies.<br> <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: dyno
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:15 am 
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Teamswift Racer
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 7:41 pm
Posts: 1697
Location: Armstrong British Columbia
Eddy Current = real dyno<br><br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: dyno
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:02 pm 
I have the stock gti that everyone is looking for to get a reliable baseline. I'm putting in a new clutch this week and the place that I buy parts from is nice enough to let me run a few baselines. this car currently is bone stock, has 100,000 miles on it( it was babied,yo!) and has only stock parts from suzuki as far as any replacements(cap rotor etc.) the dyno is a dynojet. they run 3rd gear pulls to get their numbers. I will post asap...plus I'm going to the track to get baseline 1/4 mile times as well. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: dyno tyme
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 8:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 7:41 pm
Posts: 1697
Location: Armstrong British Columbia
Use 4th gear. then it is "somewhat" comparable to other cars. being 4th gear the tranny ratio is 1:1. as all cars will have a 1:1 ratio. <p></p><i></i>


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