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 Post subject: The big 3
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:20 pm 
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So you just got your system in your car and the headlights are blinking hella bad when you got the bass going. Your thinking of a cap but somebody on this forum told you they were crap and said upgrade your Big 3. "What the hell is a Big 3?" It's a great way to get all the power you can get from your charging system to your amps and the rest of the car. Its a simple mod to do and shouldn't take you much time to do if you have all the tools.

You use huge power/ground wire to your amps to get the most power right? What most people don't realize is that coming off your alternator is a big phat (note sarcasm) chunk of 8 gauge cable crimped to a shitty (and probably badly corroded) ring terminal. If you think thats bad...the thickest ground wire is a 10 gauge piece to the engine...and the body ground might be a 10 gauge if your lucky.


The concept is simple and straight forward. You upgrade your alternator (1), body (2), and engine (3) cables to a more substantial size. This lets you pass a lot more power to your battery and electrical system. It also lets you use better terminals and freshen up the likely corroded spots where the factory grounds were. lets get started...

First things first. How thick do you need to go? I've always used a minimum of 4 gauge cable. If your audio system is using 8 gauge its likely not powerful enough to dim the lights...if it is your either using power cable thats too small to begine with or your problem lies elswhere. If your going nuts with the system then by all means go with thicker cable. The car in this FAQ is done with 4 gauge. I've actualy done a bit more than the big 3 in this one though....

Next up is making your power/ground cables. This is something that is easy do and easier to do a crummy job on. Your goal is to make a cable that is going to last a long time. Gold terminals are nice to have and expensive as well. Try to find them cheap. If you can't find any you can get copper ones from most parts stores but they are more likely to corrode. You can paint them after they are tightened to seal them up better from the elements.

Squishing a terminal onto a piece of 4 gauge with pliers and wrapping it up in tape is a good way to run into problems down the road. You want to crimp the ends on with a vice and then solder the joints with a torch. Don't use a soldering gun to solder 4 gauge..it'll never get hot enough to solder properly. I also use flux to help draw in more solder to the joint. Be careful with the torch as it heats the connectors up very quickly and can melt the jacket on your power wire. Basicaly I crimp the terminal in the vice and solder the exposed wire. After it cools I slip a piece of double layer heat shrink over the end. I highly recommend double layer BTW because it has a glue on the inside that seals the connection from the elements. Do the soldering right and cover it with double layer shrink and it'll last forever. This is what the connector should look like after your done:

Image

Measure out the lengths you need and solder the appropriate connectors on. I did a piece on the engine, transmission, and body. You don't need to do the transmission ground but I like overkill. Its easier to get the trans ground with the battery tray out. This gives you the oportunity to clean out all the crap that will be under there. This is the trans ground and the next pic is the body ground. You can see some bare metal in the body ground pic..this is going to get a dab of paint to seal it up and prevent rust. I also use a dielectric grease on all the mounting points. I haven't done the power wire from the alt to battery yet so there is no pic of it.

Image
Image

Thats it for the big 3. Its really a good mod to do even if you don't run a huge system in the car. You could upgrade the grounds to 8 gauge and leave the power wire alone. Healthy grounds make your electrical system really happy.

I did go a little further with this one though. I also upgraded the power wire to the engine fuse box to 4 gauge. You don't really need 4 gauge but its all I had handy. 8 gauge would be more than enough. Its a little more involved because you have to take the connector apart and splice a piece of 4 gauge onto the factory 10 gauge piece. Mine was in really good condition with no corrosion so I didn't bother to get a new connector. If you have bad corrosion you probably should replace the connector first. The connector can be a pain to get apart but you need to do it or you will melt the plastic. I left about 1/2 an inch of the factory wire attached to the connector. I soldered the wire to the connector first and then soldered it to the piece of 4 gauge I had. Covered it with the heat shrink and then stuck it back into the plastic piece. It was a bit of a pian to get it back in with a 4 gauge piece. * gauge would be a piece of cake. This is what the wire looks like when your done.

Image

This is the wire plugged back into the fuse box..

Image

And this it the wire tied up waiting for the battery to be put back in...

Image


BTW...you can see in the pic that there is some dirt by the hole where one of the battery tray bolts goes. This car has never seen rain or snow...gets driven 2-3 times a month...and it still manages to get dirt up there. Imagine what a daily driven all season car has under the tray. You'll get a chance to clean under there if you do this mod...so thats a free bonus ;).

This is where the alternator wire connects. As said before leave the factory wires there. The piece you add is there to supplement the factory wiring. Make sure you tighten it up nice and snug. I wrap my ratchet in electrical tape just to make sure I don't ground out somwhere with the ratchet handle...if you do it once you will remember to never do it again ;)

Image

Last but not least you route the wire to the battery and make sure its all nice and secured.

Image

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Last edited by m on Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:34 am 
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:werd: :goodpost:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:59 am 
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fuck dre! that's awesome!

ya know, that looks so pro that if you were to make me a set that were to fit like stock, I'd buy a set off you.

make it hard for me dre, make it hard, 'cause god knows I can't afford it but I really need to do this b/c the wiring has given me problems in the past...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:22 am 
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Even if big booty shakin bass isnt your thing, you may find that your car charges better, has brighter lights, and cranks alot harder after the upgrade.

On my old Datsun 720, I was having starting problems.... it would just crank reallllllllly sllllllooooww. I changed out the starter and had the same problem. After alot of head scratching, I ran a 4 awg ground right to one of the mounting bolts on the starter. It now cranks hard and fast. Also went from charging at 13.5 to 14.4 volts.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:27 am 
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jdubbya wrote:
On my old Datsun 720, I was having starting problems.... it would just crank reallllllllly sllllllooooww. I changed out the starter and had the same problem. After alot of head scratching, I ran a 4 awg ground right to one of the mounting bolts on the starter. It now cranks hard and fast. Also went from charging at 13.5 to 14.4 volts.


:huh: a solid grounding wire will definitely help with starting but it sure won't increase your charging voltage by almost 1 volt, your charging voltage is dependant on alternator speed and the state of charge of your battery.

Great write up M, I definitely agree with the alternator wire being too small, the otherthing is the startermotor cable, it's tiny, I've just relocated the battery in my 3banger motorkhana car to underneath the passenger seat, it's a small sealed lead acid battery lying flat and it starts the engine brilliant now that I have run 2guage cable from battery most of the way to the starter motor.. so if you have a high compression engine or are relocating battery it's worthwhile upgrading it.

Oh and I agree on the crimp and solder method, soldering work hardens over time which is why auto makers don't solder wires in their looms but I find crimping and then soldering gives a great combination of mechanical strength and electrical conductivity. I've custom wired 2 rally cars from scratch using this method and neither car has had a single electrical fault after nearly 7 years and thousands of km's of competitive driving. :razz:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:00 pm 
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TGstring wrote:
ya know, that looks so pro that if you were to make me a set that were to fit like stock, I'd buy a set off you.


Honestly, this mod is cheap to do yourself. No point in mass producing it. Get some 4AWG welding cable from Princess Auto (or wherever) and solder it up.

dattman wrote:
a solid grounding wire will definitely help with starting but it sure won't increase your charging voltage by almost 1 volt, your charging voltage is dependant on alternator speed and the state of charge of your battery.


It won't make the alternator give more power but if the original connector/wire is corroded and conducting poorly it will certainly help. To give you guys an idea of how well it works...I started doing this to cars instead of adding capacitors. Works better and cost less.

dattman wrote:
Oh and I agree on the crimp and solder method, soldering work hardens over time which is why auto makers don't solder wires in their looms but I find crimping and then soldering gives a great combination of mechanical strength and electrical conductivity.


There's a couple of reasons for this. When you typicaly solder a connection your adding a bit of solder and wrapping it. There isn't anything supporting the weld but the weight of the wire and the tape/heat shrink you have on it. Soldering a piece of 4 gauge actualy takes up a LOT of solder and its supported by the terminal. I should state that I solder after the wire has been crimped and I use flux to suck in as much as possible. The crimps I have are just a little too big for the wire so I insert a small piece of solder into the crimp before I crush it. When the terminal heats up the solder melts inside the crimp a further strengthens the weld. The double layer shrink completely seals the solder work from the outside too. These cables should last a very long time when done like this.

I didn't have a chance to look at the starter wiring but plan on upgrading there too once I have the car up and I replenish my wire stock :D.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:22 pm 
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Finished the alternator wiring today so the rest of the pics are up.

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 Post subject: ..
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:49 am 
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m wrote:
Finished the alternator wiring today so the rest of the pics are up.


quit teasing me you bastard guy.

I want a set.

anyone else in for one?

Make them. NOW. For everyone!

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:44 pm 
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upgrade the engine earth straps as well, that helps get the ground from the alternator to the body of the car, or do what im going to do, run 4 gauge from the body of the alternator to the firewall, that will help grounding a shitload, considering when the engines running, ground is at the alternator.

im not going to bother leaving the old wiring there, im sure 4 gauge is enough to crank an engine, especially one whos starter motor only draws about 50 - 60 amps, and 4 gauge can handle about 110A.
im going to run 4 gauge to the engine, then from that point to the body, and replace the ground straps with 4 gauge. plus the factory starter and alternator wire is only about 6 gauge (for Mk1's)


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 8:00 pm 
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look closely...the engine grounds have all been upgraded. You do the power to battery...and then the engine and body grounds.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:59 pm 
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Yea, it helps a LOT! I've been doing that for years 8) Only I went overboard and did 4ga power and grounds :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:13 pm 
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yes, i have a Q about the 10 guage wire that forks off of the neg battery terminal and uses the ring clamp to screw into the upper radiator support, just above the left headlight. m, i dont believe your tutorial covered this wire. does it require upgrade as well ?

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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:20 pm 
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I haven't seen that wire on one of mine. I've always just had the body ground that went next to the washer tank. I'm assuming it'll just be another body ground. You could upgrade it but, assuming you already have another body ground, its not necessary. I would do it anyways just to have everything off the battery upgraded and because new piece of wire looks a lot nicer than the old one it replaces :P.

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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:52 pm 
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1995Firefly4dr wrote:
yes, i have a Q about the 10 guage wire that forks off of the neg battery terminal and uses the ring clamp to screw into the upper radiator support, just above the left headlight. m, i dont believe your tutorial covered this wire. does it require upgrade as well ?


m wrote:
I haven't seen that wire on one of mine. I've always just had the body ground that went next to the washer tank. I'm assuming it'll just be another body ground. You could upgrade it but, assuming you already have another body ground, its not necessary. I would do it anyways just to have everything off the battery upgraded and because new piece of wire looks a lot nicer than the old one it replaces :P.


It is a secondary body ground. Looking at my parents cars and mine, seems it was installed on either the Mk4 or Mk5 to help counter the corrosion on the other single ground line.

Mine was corroded all to hell and back.

I also use a copper anti-seize on the electrical connections. It really seems to work well.

http://www.jetlubecanada.com/Kopr-Kote%20T.pdf

*correction*

Its a redirected body ground, there is no other ground to body. This has now been... rectified... :mrgreen:

The body ground is 8 gauge, and the engine ground is 4 gauge from the factory.

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Last edited by gamefoo21 on Sat May 10, 2008 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:43 pm 
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Nice. Would this work on any car, I mean, after you find which cables are which? My dad's Montero dims light when the bass starts hitting hard.

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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:32 pm 
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a1989swift wrote:
Nice. Would this work on any car, I mean, after you find which cables are which? My dad's Montero dims light when the bass starts hitting hard.


The ground lead to just over the headlight is the new body ground. Suzuki moved it from the fuse box location to this one. Check my correction on my post above.

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J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:19 pm 
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It works on any vehicle. You just have to sort out where the grounds are.

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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:51 am 
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Oh, ok. Thanks gamefoo21 and m. I will probably get to doing it this week.

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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 12:25 pm 
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so i guess i don't need to upgrade any wires, as my firefly is MK4 2000, 4 gauge engine and 8 gauge body gnd.

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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 12:44 pm 
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You could clean all the connections though as they do get dirty/corroded over time. As to whether or not to upgrade it really depends on what kind of power you plan to draw through the wire. I did 4 guage in mine because the OEM wire was crummy and pretty thin. A fresh run of wire does look a lot nicer though :P.

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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:27 pm 
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1995Firefly4dr wrote:
so i guess i don't need to upgrade any wires, as my firefly is MK4 2000, 4 gauge engine and 8 gauge body gnd.


My connections needed to be cleaned... with a wire brush. So I just replaced the wire while I was at it.

I also strung a secondary ground wire to the body. I put it to the fuse box.

m wrote:
You could clean all the connections though as they do get dirty/corroded over time. As to whether or not to upgrade it really depends on what kind of power you plan to draw through the wire. I did 4 guage in mine because the OEM wire was crummy and pretty thin. A fresh run of wire does look a lot nicer though :P.


What he said! =)

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J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:24 pm 
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I figured out a really good place to set the ground connection for those running the subwoofers in the rear. The bracket that holds the spare tire. The thread is metric '1' on the thread gauge. I found a bolt and washer that worked and the bolt was 10mm head. I found a copper lug that was for 2 gauge but worked with my 4 gauge and I clamped it together tight with a bench vice. I then used a propane torch and solder which I melted in the holes to give it some better conductivity and connection. Then I sanded the mating surface steel to rid the paint which interferes with electrical conductivity. Afterwards I added silicon dielectric grease between the copper lug and steel. Now no-one tells me I did a bad job, as I would be disappointed.

Image

Image

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2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:29 pm 
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1995Firefly4dr wrote:
Now no-one tells me I did a bad job, as I would be disappointed.



Use a #4 ring terminal for #4 wire. The bare copper showing shouldn't be there. The insulation should be cut so that when you crimp the wire in the terminal you barely see any copper. If you used enough solder it would have crept up the bare copper. You didn't use enough. There should be either electrical tape or preferably heat shrink sealing the copper. Don't get your feelings hurt by this....

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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:34 pm 
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hrm, strange when i was in my electrical apprentice training my superiors stated to always leave some copper exposed at the lug.

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2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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 Post subject: Re: The big 3
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:00 am 
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Your car is exposed to the elements whether the wiring is covered up inside the car or out. You want to have the least exposure possible. I'll be honest I've never heard of leaving copper exposed (being that it corrodes so easily) and would be curious as to why it would be done. I can tell you that MECP certification doesn't want exposed copper though.

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