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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 11:44 am 
Hi,<br>What's the flow rate of the OEM Swift Gti injectors?<br>....and are the Cultus injectors higher flowing? If so, what are the figures for those as well..<br><br>Curious....thanks<br><br>J. Gomez <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub83.ezboard.com/bteamswift.showUserPublicProfile?gid=whattheeee>Whattheeee</A> at: 4/4/03 1:15:44 am<br></i>


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:39 pm 
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Location: Northern New Jersey
sTOCK GT's are 270cc/min. Don't know about jap spec /cultus <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 9:46 am 
I have seen in the old forum that cultus injectors flow up too<br>200hp.the one on delphi <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Injector flow rate
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 9:54 am 
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The mad quebecer
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Does anyone know the flow rate for a Sprint or firefly turbo 3 Cyl ??<br><br>Jar <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Injector flow rate
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:21 pm 
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Location: Northern New Jersey
Swift GT 59-72cc<br>Firefly Turbo 49-56cc<br>Sidekick 16V 39-49cc <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Injector flow rate
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2003 8:12 am 
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George, are you sure?<br><br>How could an injector from the sprint turbo have a lower rate than one from the swift? Each injector handle the same displacement form both car. However the sprint can handle as much as 14/15 lbs of boost without problem but the swift is maxed out at 5-6 psi? I was expecting a much bigger rate from the sprint.<br><br>Jar <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Injector flow rate
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2003 1:32 pm 
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Got flow rates from Suzuki Swift engine management manual. In my earlier post I said GT were 270cc. WRONG! They are 170CC. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: re:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2003 2:46 pm 
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I've also heard the turbo3s were using GTi injectors as upgrades Jar. <br><br>Of three GT/GTi sets I've had tested. Flow rates at stock pressure were all around 56-63cc/15 sec.. Putting the real-world flow rate around 225-250cc/min if you are using your original injectorsat stock pressure. I've had some cleaned that showed a small improvement at the same pressure. In general you should see more noticeable improvements with cleaning on an old injector. <br><br><br>>>WRONG! They are 170CC. <br><br>?? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: re:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:13 am 
Ive had the gti injectors on 9psi and there was no sign of detonation. When i put the cultus injectors in, thinking they were larger, there was pinging. This has happened on 2 gti's that i turboed, so i'd say that the cultus ones are no good for boost. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: re:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 3:23 pm 
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i'll need to check on the time/duration & pressure, but when i had my injectors rebuilt & tested last week they were measured @ 93cc ?? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: re:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 4:40 pm 
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20 second duration? Definetely find out.. <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 11:16 pm 
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Location: In T-Dot-getting >35mpg in a non GTi
as per Factory Suzuki literature:<br><br>Injected fuel volume when checking injection amount:<br><br>59 - 72 cc / 15 sec<br><br>1.99 - 2.43 US oz / 15 sec<br><br>2.08 - 253 Imp. oz / 15 sec<br><br>Also, as a side note, if your injectors leak more than 1 drop of fuel per minute, they need replacement.<br><br>Hope this helps,<br>TGstring <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 2:02 pm 
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well, I know my results as I was there to test and see them. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub83.ezboard.com/bteamswift.showUserPublicProfile?gid=whattheeee>Whattheeee</A> at: 3/27/03 1:03:20 pm<br></i>


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 Post subject: injector flow rates
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:08 am 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Flow rates mean nothing without fuel pressure!<br>When quoting how much your injector flows, you need to quote at what pressure they were tested. An injector can flow 100cc/min at low fuel pressure but can then flow 300cc/min when the fuel pressure is increased. Pulse duration can also effect the flow rate.<br>Kyle, when you tested your injectors can you remember at what pressure?<br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: injector flow rate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:10 am 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
I have a set of Mk1 injectors, Mk2 injectors and a set from a Cultus GTi. Soon I will get all three tested using the same fuel pressure and pulse duration and post the results. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Only one in Canada...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:51 am 
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<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>An injector can flow 100cc/min at low fuel pressure but can then flow 300cc/min when the fuel pressure <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>???????? The guys running 12:1 regulators would love to think so. An injector that flows 100cc/min at it's standard pressure will not get anywhere near 300cc/min at even the highest pressure. There is a point where the injectors just don't put out any more flow.... and that happens sooner than most people think. <br><br>I do agree on the pressure comment and the reason I am confident that my tests are 'real-world' tests is because of the fuel pressure. Most injector tests are done at a standardized pressure. For the simple fact that when comparing injectors, you know the pressure is standard and can judge flow rates accordingly accross a range of different injecors. The shop I worked out of was generally 3 bar standard (44psi-ish). <b> However </b>, seeing as I was in charge of my own tests, they were done at 2.5bar which is just about our base pressure. The benefit of working at the only shop in Canada with a machine like this. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> Up at 3 bar they did get closer to the other numbers posted, alhtough being that they were not cleaned, they were still a bit shy of that. <br><br>Also, injector tests are generally done 'wide open'. Pulse duration/pulse width is important on many levels of injector performance, but some go static at 2.0ms, some go static at 1.0ms. Standardizing amongst flow rates amongst all that would get reallllly ugly. If you test at 100% and you want to know what it flows at 80% of that... well some simple math should be able to figure that out. At least, I'm sure that if you went around to forums asking for what it flowed at 3.5ms, 4ms, 2ms, 1ms, 20ms, 10ms, 12ms. You would get some silly looks wondering why you were asking.<br><br>Basically, I'm confident using my numbers to represent my car driving around on the street. <br><br>-------<br>The injectors were also tested for the following, which they passed with flying colors. They are a good injector, even at high rpms.<br>----------<br><br>Pattern @ 0 to 20 Millisecond DPW, 50 to 10,000 RPM <br>Droplet size @ 0 to 20 Millisecond DPW, 50 to 10,000 RPM <br>Atomization @ 0 to 20 Millisecond DPW, and 50 to 10,000 RPM <br>Injector volume @ 1 to 100% <br>Duty Cycle Static Point<br>Dribbling leaking @ 1 to 6.5 Bar Pressure <br>Targeting <br>Penetration <br>Idle Stability 2500 to 50 RPM <br>Static Points 0 to 20 Millisecond DPW,50 to 10,000 RPM <br>Injector Driver circuit loading and efficiency tests <br>----<br><br>When I find my stupid sheet with how our injectors flowed at different pressures, I'll post up some numbers for other pressures than stock pressure. It makes a difference for a while, but as soon as they reach 'that' point. No amount of pressure increases the flow.<br><br>I have both 380ccs/min and 440ccs/min in my garage to choose from for injectors to run this year for my higher boost runs with the motor mods. My concern will be from 2.5barpressure up to 3.5bar pressure. The reason for this is obvious again... my FPR is referenced to the intake and will increase 1 psi of pressure per 1 psi of boost. So, seeing how much they flow a little over 50psi will be of interest to me. Flow will not greatly increase from the injectors beyond that anyway.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub83.ezboard.com/bteamswift.showUserPublicProfile?gid=whattheeee>Whattheeee</A> at: 4/4/03 12:20:29 am<br></i>


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 Post subject: reply
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:53 pm 
i think the flow is supposed to be at 270cc/min (gti) ...and if this is so then theoretically at 100% duty cycle they are capable of approx 215 hp, so therefore more than the cultus ones if indeed as stated in an above post they flow for 200hp ... just my 2 c ! <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: reply
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:20 pm 
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The 3 sets of GTi injectors I've tested at 2.5bar have ranged from 240-256cc/min stock pressure 100% duty cycle. 296cc/min was at 3.5 bar and flow didn't increase beyond that even up to 7 bar pressure.<br><br>The only reason I suggest the following formula is because it is quick and easy and seems to correspond with real-world results I've seen on a lot of tuned street turbo vehicles. A street/road-course car should be built to run rich.<br><br>lb/hr=expected bhp *.55 /# of injectors<br><br>Switch that around to see what hp that will give according to values I've tested via real world.<br><br>240cc/min =<br>22.8lb/hr * 4 injectors / .55 BSFC gives = 165.8hp<br>(80% duty cycle would be 132hp)<br><br>256cc/min result of max inejctor tested at stock pressure<br>24.4 * 4 intectors / .55 = 177hp<br>(80% duty cycle would be 141hp)<br><br>Theoretical value of 270cc/min result would be close to 187hp.<br>( 80% duty cycle would be 149hp)<br><br>Lets say you run 12psi of boost and a little more stock pressure so with a 1:1 FPR you are close to 3.5bar at WOT you would be close to my tested 300cc/min max capable flow.<br><br>300cc/min would be close to 205hp at 100% duty cycle and 164hp at 80%.<br><br>270cc/min GTi injectors to me are theory, 240-260cc/min are real-world to me. I think the most useable range of the stock injectors is in between 150-160hp. I would consider 180hp a 1/4mile situation with race gas for our stock injectors. That's just how I would build though.<br><br>Even cars like the turbo DSMs have 195hp stock and 440cc injectors. From many runs we've recorded on a datalogger on my old DSM and many friends DSMs I see that when they are approaching 300hp they injectors are wide open and running 100% duty cycle. (even ye old formula tends to correspond 41.9lb/hr (440cc/min) *4 injectors / .55 = 304hp ) <br><br>Our injectors are beautiful ND injectors like the DSM and handle high rpms and high pressure just fine. However, I wouldn't tune for 180hp if I could help it on stock injectors and the only way I would consider it is for short bursts and accompanied with raised fuel pressure. I definetely would not want anywhere near 215hp on stock pressure from the sets I've tested... <br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: injectors
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 4:50 am 
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Hi,<br> just thought i would add my findings here,<br>With 12psi boost ,45psi fuel pressure with rising rate of 1:1,my turbo mazda 2.2 lt injectors were maxing out at 7500rpm,(230 hp)when these were initialy flowed they were 15% more flow than std gti injectors,so I would say your looking at around about 180hp out of std injectors (flywheel,as a safe figure.I have now fitted 436cc injectors out of a late model turbo toyota supra,now with 15psi boost and 8000rpm the injectors are at 70% duty cycle(approx 260hp at flywheel).<br> If you can find them, these injectors are ideal for high horsepower in the swift engine,they have a cap that directs the atomised fuel into each inlet valve area(splits it in two)unlike most injectors that have a single spray pattern.They also fit directly into the std swift fuel rail.<br> Cheers Dave<br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: what injectors
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:07 am 
hay dave with those injectors, how much did they cost? and is it true that turbo tx3 injectors or in as well... i'm getting my swift turboed but i'm just thinking about the fuel at the moment, i have everything else figured out. do i need to upgrade the fuel pump, and get a fuel regulator? i want to run about 10psi with a TD04 <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: injectors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:24 am 
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Hi,<br> I think the mazda 2.2lt turbo injectors are the same as the tx3(isnt it the same engine!)If they are the same they will fit in the fuel rail and the head no problems.<br> To be honest i never tried running the turbo set up with std fuel system.I have the std suzi in tank pump feeding into a bosch motorsport pump,this feeds a modified fuel rail(late model rail with both ends cut off,welded on / 6 fittings) then going to a bosch motorsport fuel regulator.<br> The engine killer with turbo cars is detonation,so make fuel systems a priority rather than a afterthought.<br> Dave <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:55 pm 
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Dave, I love you, <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> but I don't fully agree. 180hp could be done, but at 100% duty cycle. I don't see how that is safe set-up for a race/road-course/rally car. If it were my car, I would avoid that anyway. Like you say, fuel is not a place to skimp.<br><br>I've seen better atomization from some single nozzle than some dual nozzle injectors. As long as they are still penetrating the head they should be good. The theory is certianly there for some dual nozzles. Stealth TTs have a dual pintle and are low impedance. 380/390cc. I have a set that I've tested, and they were very nice injectors. As are the larger 440s from the other DSMs.<br> <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 3:09 pm 
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The Mazda is a 2.2 litre 12 valve, the TX3/323 is a 1.6 or 1.8 litre (depending on year) 16 valve. <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:06 am 
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Location: In T-Dot-getting >35mpg in a non GTi
I've got 4 Cultus MK2 Injectors in my hand, and they look VERY different from my north american SSGTi injectors.<br><br>I think someone posted that the stock injectors are ND....<br><br>If I know my logos ( a circle with a square in it, and a dot right in the moddle) I believe these are HITACHI injectors....<br><br>I have no clue if that's better or worse...thought it might help someone?!?<br><br>TGstring <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:50 pm 
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Location: wagga wagga suzuki gti turbo 174hpatw on 16 psi
guys i have 1995 gti swift my car is turbo running 15psi i have stock fuel system and stock igition but the pressure of the fuel is 70-80psi the guys that did my car said this is the max boost that i could run into it with the stock fuel system they said the injecters were at 95% duty cyle one other thing i have after maket computer to run it.


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