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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:49 am
Posts: 18
Location: Crosby, Texas
Thanks for the info Way. I doctored the oil return in the head gasket on the one I'm running and will continue to do so on all future ones. Not in the 96 manual either. Lovely. :? And you know that every machine shop there is, is going to pull that galley restrictor when they clean the head. Or at least you'd hope they would. If the same person doesn't assemble the head or they don't deal with a lot of these engines then you gotta no holey plug in yo head.

If the pricing I saw was right, the restrictor is less tha $4 from Mr. Chevrolet.

I hope this is the problem too.

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Texas Bird
95 Metro Hatchback, 1.0, 5 Speed
Crosby, Texas

Dyed in the wool Chrysler with heavy latent Ford tendencies.
Daddy's first car was a Model T he bought for $11.50 in 1928. His second car was a V-12 LaSalle.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 2:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:33 am
Posts: 219
Location: Northeast Kingdom, VT
Yeah, more than likely it would just look like another oil/coolant passage without the restrictor in there. Apparently even the folks that wrote the manual missed it. :roll: I didn't read the manual through and through but it sure seems like they would have mentioned it in the diagrams.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:22 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Knoxville
I believe I am having the same problem, with the oil restricter in the head. I just did a head rebuild and I'm now burning a lot of oil. I had opened up the oil passage in the head gasket, but I was afraid, maybe I didn't open it enough. This is the first I have heard of the part in the head.

What would the happen if the restricter wasn't put back in the head? Would it case it to burn the oil?

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Hofstadter's Law

"It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law."

95 1L 5 Speed Metro
08 Saab 9³ 2.0T Sport Combi


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:33 am
Posts: 219
Location: Northeast Kingdom, VT
I don't know firsthand but according to these posts by 87t1, yes it would:

http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=28100&highlight=oil+restrictor

Hope this helps


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:22 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Knoxville
I just got my head off and the oil regulator valve isn't there. I have one to put in there, but I'm still waiting on the new head bolts from 3tech. I wish I knew where they were.

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Hofstadter's Law

"It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law."

95 1L 5 Speed Metro
08 Saab 9³ 2.0T Sport Combi


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:49 am
Posts: 18
Location: Crosby, Texas
Hey Autobahnen...Keep the faith brother. I just got my set I ordered from Mike the other day and Mike sent them just like he said he did per the date on the box. From him in Canada to me in Texas it took 12 days via the Canadian and US Postal systems...Smokin... :wink: If you don't have an 8 mm on a square drive for a ratchet you'll need to round one up as these are what you're new head bolts take.

As far as the oil galley restrictor in your head...or lack of...Look good to make sure it isn't there as this rascal aint very big...One of the earlier posts in this thread states the allen wrench size. I think he said it's a 3 mm. This plug is nothing more than a set screw with a hole drilled in it. I don't think it's a tapered pipe thread either. The screw might be 3/16" long. I haven't looked real good at it yet, but was going to before I put it in. Mr. Chevrolet has these for about $4 before tax, but get it ordered as it took the local dealer almost a week to get it.

Let me know if you want the dimensions and I'll take the time to measure it and post the specs. I was going to do this anyway for those that wanted to make their own.

But let me warn you. You'd probably have to have a machine shop do it. This plug is about 3/16" in diameter and the hole in it looks like .070" or so. It's real easy to break bits this small. You could probably do it at the house, but you'd have to take your time. Probably wouldn't be worth it if you had to chase the plugs and the drill bits.

Make sure to look at the block side of this same oil galley. There should be a check valve there. It's brass with a little BB in it for the check. Pull it out and make sure it's clean and will rattle when you shake it to be sure the ball is free.

This check valve in the deck of the block holds the oil in the head passages to get oil to the head quicker on start-ups. The restrictor in the head limits the oil flow to the head. Just tryin to make sure you have this check too as it's real important.

Hopefully I'll get to the head gasket this weekend. Had to get my A/C going this last weekend. Gettin fat and old is an ugly thing... 8)

_________________
Texas Bird
95 Metro Hatchback, 1.0, 5 Speed
Crosby, Texas

Dyed in the wool Chrysler with heavy latent Ford tendencies.
Daddy's first car was a Model T he bought for $11.50 in 1928. His second car was a V-12 LaSalle.


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 Post subject: rings
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:33 pm
Posts: 93
Location: Elkmont Alabama
I heard when they rebuild small aircraft engines they use minneral oil for the first 25 hours of operation so the rings seat properly. Has any one else heard that?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:13 am 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 414
Location: Chester County PA
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!


I know GM target engines have a special oil they come with....
Smells like peanut oil. (I know it's not, of course)




Jimmy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:22 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Knoxville
Thanks for the reply, Texas.

I already have the regulator, I made sure I had it before the tear down, since it was only $3.

I just heard from Mike, he said he shipped the bolts on the 6th. I hope they don't take as long as they did for you to get here. I can't wait, so I think I am going to put it back together with old head bolts. Then swap them out when I get the new ones.

I'm make sure I check the check valve, while I'm in the too.

_________________
Hofstadter's Law

"It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law."

95 1L 5 Speed Metro
08 Saab 9³ 2.0T Sport Combi


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:51 pm 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 414
Location: Chester County PA
Autobahnen,

Whatever you do..........

*************************
Don't reuse the headbolts!!!!!
*************************


You'll end up having to redo the head gasket..The bolts are made to stretch...


I had to retorque my headbolts 3 times to get it right.....
(I had a pinhole leak and made coolant burp from the overflow when revving the motor.)


Also.....after you assemble everything run the motor at idle until it is NORMAL operating temperature, then let it cool down COMPLETELY
as in ICE COLD BEFORE you retorque the bolts....


Iron heads can be retorqued when the motor is warm, but NOT aluminum heads....

The motor HAS to be ICE cold before retorquing head bolts.


Please forgive me if you already know that.... :-)

Sincerely,



Jimmy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
On a hot day, that's the way I like my beer...
I think JJ's got it nailed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:49 am
Posts: 18
Location: Crosby, Texas
Well...I got the new head gasket on weekend before last. The oil restrictor in the head was missing so I put one in. I talked about posting the specs on this restrictor plug, but it seems mute as it's so small you'd have to have a pin vise to drill it and probably a vertical mill as well. I never did get an exact measurement on the orifice, but it's larger than .040" and smaller than a 1/16" drill bit which is .0625. Best guess would be about .050".

As far as the oil consumption, it's about half of what it was. This is due strictly to installation of the oil resrictor in the head. A lot better, but still not right. I'm going to dink with it some more, but it seems the only true fix is honing and a new ring set. One good note is that it did pass a Texas state emissions test that uses a sniffer. I didn't think it would.

Again many Thanks to all those that helped. I'll update this string as things evolve on the oil burning.

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Texas Bird
95 Metro Hatchback, 1.0, 5 Speed
Crosby, Texas

Dyed in the wool Chrysler with heavy latent Ford tendencies.
Daddy's first car was a Model T he bought for $11.50 in 1928. His second car was a V-12 LaSalle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Did you ever overheat those rings?

(And a Happy 4th)

If not, are you sure the PCV valve is relieving the pressure in the crankcase?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:49 am
Posts: 18
Location: Crosby, Texas
I did some PCV experimentation with it earlier on, but it did not pan out. I now have a new PCV valve in it and will be dinking with this system again. Total Seal says you may have to restrict the PCV system because of higher vacuum, especially at idle.

I did not go higher on the engine temperature. I was going to try the PCV system again since I have the restrictor in the head and a new PCV valve.

My thought here was to try the higher temperature last in case I did more damage to the rings.

I hope I can prove myself wrong and get the PCV to work out.

Thanks P&E and a Happy 4th to you.

_________________
Texas Bird
95 Metro Hatchback, 1.0, 5 Speed
Crosby, Texas

Dyed in the wool Chrysler with heavy latent Ford tendencies.
Daddy's first car was a Model T he bought for $11.50 in 1928. His second car was a V-12 LaSalle.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:31 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Vallejo, CA
TotalSeal now tells me they do not recommend their rings for 2 ring pistons. On the Honda 1.3 front, this outfit https://www.fcpimport.com/ accepted an order for a set of standard rings. $85 total. We'll see if they are the ones we need. If these don't work out, I'll use my old good looking compression rings.
bob


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 Post subject: Re: rings
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:16 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Minnesota
chippy wrote:
I heard when they rebuild small aircraft engines they use minneral oil for the first 25 hours of operation so the rings seat properly. Has any one else heard that?


Everyone has their opinion on how to do this. I say it is a bunch of bullshit and totally unnecessary. Hell, new car engines nowadays just go straight from the factory and into the car, started up, and driven. There is no factory "break-in" of engines. They are able to do this these days due to much better quality control and consistency. I have noticed that aircraft people have completely different mindsets than that of automobile people, and I have seen plenty of evidence to prove that they can be as equally as dumb. I'm honestly surprised that there are statistically fewer avionic mechanical failures, based on percentages.

In my experience, when piston rings result in oil consumption, you don't see a LOT of oil smoke out of the exhaust. Perhaps after some engine braking you will get a puff out the exhaust when you hit the gas afterward, but no big, long blue clouds of smoke.

For all I know, whoever rebuilt the head forgot to install valve seals or even cleaned all the parts, including the valves, in a tumbler which beat up the stems and gave them a rough surface for the valve seal to ride along.

Also, for all I know, the head wasn't bolted on right and the oil supply to the head is making its way into cylinder #3.

If you are looking through the spark plug holes and seeing liquid oil, and you are sure that it is oil, I have a hard time believing that bad piston rings can cause that much liquid oil to just get on top of the piston and not get burned off with each power stroke of the engine. My G10 had rings that resulted in about the same amount of oil consumption, but minimal, if any smoke out the exhaust.

If the oil in the engine is getting nasty black and dirty in short order, you have piston ring issues. If it is staying relatively clean and still getting consumed, I suspect valvetrain issues, or a head gasket issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:20 am
Posts: 89
Location: seattle
Its been awhile since I've been on this site.
Yes recip aircraft engines use straight mineral oil for break in, that means no additives. And that is what normal motor oil is only with additives. I see mention of "oil galley" restrictor. And for that matter oil galley printed everywhere on the net and even some modern books. I guess incorrect nomenclature just gets to me, there is no such thing as a oil galley. But there is an oil gallery. A galley is a kitchen on a ship or aircraft. Just look it up.

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I like my Metro's 96 and 2000.
The most trouble free cars on the road.
Chevrolet goofed up the day they stopped selling them.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:17 am
Posts: 78
Location: Langley BC
Were the cylinders honed to the proper finish? By machine or hand? I know if the hone suddenly speeds up it has glazed that cylinder. Torque plate used? These things could be more critical with those rings versus regular cast iron?

Wondered how you broke it in? Have you tried high load and vacuum cycles? Hope it's just extended break in or something simple. Good luck.


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