TeamSwift

Ever since I removed completely the remote start system, the engine will rotate but will not start. I had to remove the dash-b to remove all the old inline-splices and wires. I also cut, re-spliced all the wires from the key ignition going into the inside fuse panel that were altered from the remote-start thing. So I have checked with a keen eye, and no wires are open/modified as they were not supposed to be. some of the dash-b connectors are not connected, ie the entire airbag cct, radio stuff, everything else that cant be connected. all the connectors from the steering column and other connectors that go into the fuse block are all put in. i also have the instrument cluster connected, but there is no flashing check engine light for me to get codes.

So in my repair manual, I do the ignition system check. I took out a sparkplug and put it to ground to watch the spark jump on engine start. There was no spark. I then checked the ignition coil for 1998 and newer models. both were 10.5Kohm, within range. then they say 'check for voltage to the coil' . well they dont say how to do this. so i put my meter probes into one of the pins to the other of the three pins in the connector for the ignition coil. this is with both. no matter how i combined the pins with the meter on engine start there was no voltage on both connectors for each coil.

now my manual does not say what to do once i have no voltage at the ignition coils. this is where i need help with the next steps. i also need an emergency plan. say, that if i can't fix this myself, what to do next ? i cant drive the car to a shop because it wont start and the dashboard is out and it needs some body panels.

this is the car before:


now i have the bumper, right fender, and hood removed. i have repaced the radiator, upper radiator support, upper and lower rad hoses, radiator fan, thermostat, t-stat housing gasket, and rubber ring for the thermostat.
i worked on my 95 metro before, but this newer one has all different technology and i dont know much about cars to begin with.

bump !

bump, please help !

again, third time someone help

bump ! fourth day asking for help!

bump, help

You had an aftermarket part in there that we have no way of knowing about, and you've been in there messing around with wiring. Unlikely that someone sitting here reading will be able to troubleshoot something for you. It also sounds as if you have a generic service manual, not much help on a car that has an ignition system unlike 95% of all Metro/Swift cars.

There's an "Ignition coil" fuse under the hood. It's possible that the coil voltage goes through some underdash connector that you have disconnected. Might have to re-install everything to get it to work. My FSM says that the Black wire with a white tracer on pin one of the coil connector should have 12 volts with the key in the run position. That's 12v between pin 1 and ground.

How can I tell what pin is which number ?

You could look in your proper Factory Service Manual, you could look to find which one has the black wire with a white tracer as I stated above, or you could connect one lead to ground turn on the key and check all three wires. The Black/White is 12 volts, the Black/Blue is ground, and the other one is the trigger from the PCU. That Black/White comes from the IG/COIL fuse under the dashboard, not under the hood as I said yesterday.

I would be grateful to know where I can get a FSM for 2000 model year firefly/geo metro.

I did the test, although key was at ON and not run. There was 12 volts on each of the connectors going to the ignition coil. What can I do next ?

bump please help !

i had a mechanic come over today to quickly diagnose the problem. says there is no power going to the fuse block, when the key is at ACC. but when the key is turned some part does get power and the engine cranks. there is power going to the ignition coils but no spark, and he says he also cant hear the fuel pump. we're going to do more diagnosing on the weekend, but he says ill have to check the inside fuseblock issue myself. except i dont really know what to do. so help please, if anyone can

disconnect the battery. remove the 2 pan head phillips screws that hold the fuse and relay panel behind the battery. turn it over and look at the metal bus bars. check for green corrosion and melted plastic. find the cables that have snap in connectors, push the release tab, and pull them off. check for melted plastic and more corrosion. clean the connectors, lightly lube them with silicone electrical grease, and snap the connectors back in place.

check the 15 amp efi fuse. check the efi relay. the 2 big relays are noted on the top of the relay rack cover as main and efi. the main relay powers the system and the ecu. if it's dead, you won't get fuel pump or spark. the starter uses a set of contacts on the ignition switch to pull in the solenoid and roll the starter independently of the main and efi relays. the easiest way to check the relays is have spares to replace the originals.

the ecu, efi, and coil electrics are extremely sensitive to bad grounds. check all of them and clean the ring terminals and the chassis where they touch with a little sandpaper, lube them with silicone electrical grease, and snug them back down with the screws. don't overlook the intake manifold where the engine wiring harness grounds attach. corrosion there is a recurring problem.

that's all i can offer without touching your car.

I took your suggestion and flipped over the fuseboxes to look for obvious signs of corrosion/burns but there were none, as I would of seen corrosion in other places. This just isnt' one of those 'your grounds are no good' type of problems.

So I noticed what could be a missing wire, I use the 'could' word because I'm not sure if the 2000 firefly version has the white wire there or not. I would like someone who has a 2000-2001 geo/firefly to check for me and see if it does.


And the wire is in the 1995 fusebox.

now we have a new problem. since i bought new battery terminals, installed them, and put dielectric on the chassis ground on the batt. so i didnt realize the key was at acc so i go to put the new terminals on the batt and then i hear a spark jump. well now the main 70A fuse is broken. help.

holy crap! that's a huge short if i've ever heard of one. fuses are selected to protect the wiring, but if i'm not mistaken, the 60 or 70 amp fuse isolates the electrical system from the alternator charge output in the case of gross overcharge. it's the large gauge red/ white wire which feeds the fuse block. the other side of the fuse is attached to the distributing bus bars in the rack. the bus feeds the other fuses in the row and crosses the circuits back over to the other side and out to the harness via the 3 position connector next to the alternator output wire. better check the relay rack over again to make sure it didn't drop a wire. it might also indicate bad diodes in the internal rectifier of the alternator.

that's way over my head now definately

oops, i figured out that i had installed the battery incorrectly and therefore without noticing i had swapped the pos and neg so when i hooked up the terminals they looked the right way but they were switched. at least i have a spare fuse block from my 95. but serious, someone can check the images i posted above, t3 you seemed to either completely ignored an obvious difference or you dont know ?

Sounds like you're on the right track but maybe you just need to check your work.

If the car ran before, I wouldn't start at the coil. I'd work on the inside and ensure all the wires make it to the right destination.

Plus I wouldn't worry about that missing wire. It might be for AC or something.

hope that helps.

I have a 2000, but it's getting late....gotta get to bed. Do you have a manual with schematics (wiring diagrams)?

One last thing. Hooking up the battery wrong worries me. Maybe an ECU is needed?

I had a mechanic friend visit today. We found out that the PCM (powertrain control module - aka the main computer) under the glove box had been disconnected. I confused this with the passenger airbox box, and did not realize it needed to be there to start the car. Now the car starts, and runs, but exhaust is a little murky. Maybe since it was not started since January. Well the new rad I installed seems to work great.