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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:32 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:47 pm
Posts: 640
Location: Olympia, WA
Here are the two possible mounting points underneath the intake manifold. On mine, it's the one closest to the transmission and pretty much under the EGR modulator.

FYI, I tried putting some goopy non-hardening gasket stuff in the o-ring groove of the pipe and ended up with a leak. I had to pull it out, clean it up, and under strict instructions from a fellow Chevy Sprint Metro owner, reinstall the pipe without anything on the o-ring.
Despite my doubts, it worked!
Attachment:
Water pump pipe mounting points.JPG
Water pump pipe mounting points.JPG [ 156.49 KIB | Viewed 1312 times ]


While this doesn't show the pipe, you can see the mounting bolt located under the EGR modulator. (I removed the EGR for this picture)
Attachment:
water pipe mounting under EGR.JPG
water pipe mounting under EGR.JPG [ 43.55 KIB | Viewed 1611 times ]


likea_dream just posted on my thread showing where the pipe bolted up to his block next to the transmission:
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:03 am 
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Posts: 149
Location: WA
codyb76 wrote:
That o-ring just doesn't like to be moved at all. No need to be chasing down pipes and installing new ones. Just get a new oring and install it. The intake doesn't need to come off. There is one awkward 10mm head bolt holding the pipe in place under the intake. Pull it out, replace the oring and away you go.


Pipe is already in the mail. I needed the new pipe because the bracket is all bent to hell and it's preventing the pipe from being able to go all the way back into the hole in the back of the thermostat housing. Intake doesn't need to come off you're right about that. I got it off but seriously you cannot get a wrench or ratchet in there to save your life. You can get it on the head of the bolt but can't turn the wrench or ratchet at all. I had to use a cordless skil ratchet. Not going to be able to get it very tight with that but oh well.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:55 pm 
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Location: WA
Pipe finally arrived today. 15 days I have waited since I ordered that pipe. It DID come with a new ORing so I didn't need to buy that one in the first place. You can see how badly bent the mounting bracket is on the old pipe. Hopefully I can get it in tomorrow or maybe tonight after work...the sooner the better because I don't like driving my moms civic.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:59 am 
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Location: WA
Success! I got the pipe in tonight after work. Didn't use any sort of sealant. I looked in my factory service manual but it doesn't say anything about that pipe. The clutch seems to grip better now but it was hard to tell because it was icy out. I even broke traction when I hit 3rd gear! I had both tires spinning through both 1st and 2nd gear too. They're snow tires though with studs.

Strange thing was, with that new pipe pushed all the way in that little tab on the end by the thermostat housing wasn't all the way to thermostat housing. Not sure what it's for then.

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Anyways there's a new problem here and it worries me. A lot. When I start the car there's a quick grinding sound from the starter. Sounds just like if you hold the key too long when the engine starts. Any idea what this is? The starter is tight up against the tranny. The only thing I can think of is maybe the flywheel I installed is different. Maybe the teeth aren't in the same place, exaclty? What would cause this to happen? Please don't tell me I have to take the tranny out again. That wasn't fun.

The flywheel was from Autozone and it was a Luk flywheel.

http://www.lukclutch.com/catalog/detail.phtml?id=692596&query_year=1998&query_make=Chevrolet&query_model=Metro&query_displacement=1.0L


Here's the pictures I took of the flywheel before it went in.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:03 am 
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Posts: 149
Location: WA
Also, the starter doesn't grind until as soon as the engine starts going. While it's cranking I don't hear the sound. It goes away as soon as I let off the key. But I'm not holding the key in too long either, I'm letting go as soon as it starts just like I always have.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:26 am 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 414
Location: Chester County PA
I would pull the starter and put it back on and see what happens. Maybe it wasn't on straight?
It's in a tight spot, so jack the car and yank it to see. Beats pulling the tranny to check. =)
I doubt it's the flywheel.
Cool setup. :-)



Jimmy


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:47 pm
Posts: 183
Location: GA
I have a 96 Geo. My starter has a metal shim that mounts over the starter hole. It looks like a metal gasket. It has a large hole in the center and two small holes for the mounting bolts to go through.

Although a different car, this post mentions the grinding starter sound. Another poster recommends shimming the starter. Turns out the starter was bad...

http://gbodyforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=59326


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:14 am 
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Posts: 149
Location: WA
Quote:
Cool setup.


Are you talking about the lights? Definately nice having those lights. The halogens for brightness, the flourescent above is mainly for the garage and the portable one to get in and around and under the motor. I also had a propane heater to keep me warm.

The metal shim is installed between the starter and tranny right now just as it was before. I'll have to try removing it and putting it back on.

So what would cause a starter to grind like that only after the engine starts? It's really weird. Shimming doesn't really sound like the problem to me. It was fine before and also it doesn't grind until the engine starts which means it's getting a good enough grip to get it started and doesn't grind while it's cranking.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:47 pm
Posts: 183
Location: GA
I would suggest contacting the manufacturer of the flywheel. They should have a support dept and should be able to help you fix the problem.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:11 pm 
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Location: WA
Alright, thanks. I emailed them since they close at 5 eastern time which means I'd have to get up before 2 to get a hold of them on the phone which is around 3 hours before I normally get up.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:39 am 
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Location: WA
I didn't want to wait for them to get back to me with the email so I called them this morning when they opened at 8am easter/5am my time. Was on hold for about 20 mins then accidently hung up and then was on hold the second time for over an hour. Then I hung up on purpose. Their website mentions their hours but not the days so I assumed they're open 7 days a week. The recording doesn't mention anything either, it just keeps saying about once every minute that all their callers are busy helping other customers and my call will be answered in the order it was recieved.

What a waste of time.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:19 am 
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Location: WA
Here's a little update on the starter problem. First of all I think I've just about got it down to where I can let off the key just before it gets fully started and the starter has a chance to pull back before the engine hits idling RPM and there's minimum to no starter grind noise. But that's just to minimize any damage on the components for now. It's by no means a solution to the problem because I shouldn't have to do that.

I found some time tonight after shaving a couple laps off my time on the shifter karts at this local go kart indoor track. It's fun! 34 second lap the first time I went and then the second time I got 32 second lap. Top lap time is about 28 seconds.


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My little 3 leg helper.

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Fatass expects to be pet. Takes it for granted.

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So I got home and got the car into the garage after cleaning out some more room. Removed the purge canister charcoal thing. Pulled the starter and took a picture of the ring gear. Let me know what you think. I also removed the flywheel cover on the bottom of the engine and took the best picture I could get of the teeth on the flywheel. Notice that blue stuff on the flywheel? I don't think it was like that before. Looks like somethings been rubbing and got hot.


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I stopped there because I need to test the starter and I need someone to turn the key and it was like 4am. Tomorrow before work I'm gonna have my step dad help me see how quick the starter is pulling back and popping out. It doesn't look like that thing has much travel does it? My subaru starter ring gear was inside the starter until you turned it on then it popped out of the hole. This one is odd looking. I'm also going to do a compression test tomorrow and check the timing.

I bought the Factory Service Manual for 98 Chevy Metro. It's SOOO much better than Haynes and Chilton put together. It actually tells you how to check your timing. One of those damn books said you can't check the timing or that it couldn't be adjusted!

If you do not have an air compressor or even if you do, buy one of these. They really helped me out when I was replacing that stupid pipe. I don't know how much it was because it was a gift a couple years ago and I just put it somewhere in my room for a couple years until I was doing that water pump and couldn't even turn the stupid wrench or the ratchet in that little space. This saved me worlds of frustration.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:47 pm
Posts: 183
Location: GA
I would make sure there's grease on the starter gear axle so it can slide easily.

Another idea...

How about calling your local auto parts place and asking about their return policy. If the starter can be returned after a quick installation, buy a new starter and see if that fixes the problem.

If it were my car, I would still call the manufacturer of the flywheel. They will know the answer for sure.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Location: Olympia, WA
98chevymetro wrote:
If you do not have an air compressor or even if you do, buy one of these. They really helped me out when I was replacing that stupid pipe. I don't know how much it was because it was a gift a couple years ago and I just put it somewhere in my room for a couple years until I was doing that water pump and couldn't even turn the stupid wrench or the ratchet in that little space. This saved me worlds of frustration.


Yeah, I have a simple motto when it comes to working on cars...

"There's nothing more pathetic than a mechanic without the proper tools!" :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:51 pm 
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Location: Georgetown, Guyana
Starter looks fine to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:55 pm 
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Location: WA
Yeah but it's what's inside that's causing the problem, right?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:40 pm 
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Location: WA
OK I got the starter removed and tested it while it was out. Well sort of out. It was still hooked up to the car but it was out of the tranny. Anyways it popped right out real fast and shot back in just as fast and spun fast too.

I then removed it completely from the vehicle and took it apart. Wiped all the greese and dirt buildup from everything and now it's all clean. Didn't use any solvants because the book said not to because it could desolve grease that's packed into the clutch or something. Just used a dry clean towel and went over it real good.

Now I need to lube it up but I don't have the proper lube. I don't think. I have some chevron multipurpose grease that's for wheel bearings and stuff I think.

I'm going to get the right lubricant and then put it back in the car and see if it works.

Do you think that spring that pulls the ring gear back in needs to be replaced? Could that be the reason it's not coming back out quick enough. Only two reasons I can think of is that spring isn't strong enough anymore and it needs to be lubricated and cleaned(done). Anything else?




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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:13 am 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Posts: 414
Location: Chester County PA
I'd be careful with using the wrong grease. If it "melts" a bit and contaminates the flywheel, it will wipe out your clutch. I'd check before using it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.




Jimmy


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:45 am 
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Location: WA
I know which grease to get and I'm gonna try to get it from the dealership but I think they'll be closed. It's GM Part number 1050109 Lubriplate Lubricant. Says so in the FSM. I saw on another forum that you should use that or White Lithium Grease.

I could probably drive my moms car again until the dealership parts department is open on monday if I have to.

I read the rest of the FSM section on cleaning the starter and it says to take 300-400 grit sandpaper and get all the black burnt stuff off the copper parts around the shaft where those contacts(brushes?)touch the starter motor. So I still have to do that. Then just grease it up and put it back in and hope for the best.

God my wrists are killing me after riding those go karts on my days off.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:52 am 
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98chevymetro wrote:
I bought the Factory Service Manual for 98 Chevy Metro. It's SOOO much better than Haynes and Chilton put together. It actually tells you how to check your timing. One of those damn books said you can't check the timing or that it couldn't be adjusted!



That's the problem with those books, they're trying to cover way too many cars and it's impossible to clearly state what info pertains to what engine. If you look in the four cylinder section of your new manual, you'll find that on the 98 four cylinder you in fact cannot change or check the timing.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:22 pm 
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Location: WA
I took apart the starter. Cleaned every part. Lubed all the parts up and put it back together and the problem is still there, nothing changed. Bummer.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:33 pm 
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What did you do with your old flywheel?

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:42 pm 
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Phil N Ed wrote:
What did you do with your old flywheel?

good point.
dont trust any parts guys these days. measure the diameter of the 2 wheels and count the teeth.

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the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:10 am 
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Location: WA
It's in the trash can right now in my garage. Maybe I should remove the flywheel and have the old one resurfaced and put back on?

I doubt there's a difference in the number of teeth. I just think they're too tall or something. Or the flywheel diameter is too large. Even just by a fraction of an inch.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:58 am 
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Location: Vrginia
When I rebuilt the engine it came with a new o ring. I installed the o ring and put the pipe in place immediately upon filling the radiator it started leaking. So will put a bunch of RV blue on it and shoved it back in. Waited 24 hours but now five months later it is leaking again.

Any suggestions


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