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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:30 am
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Location: Iowa
This weekend I cleaned out my IAC valve on my 2001 Suzuki Swift due to rough idle. I got done with the job, started the car and it ran great!!! This morning after my drive to work 30 miles I put it in park, and it reved up then down up then down etc. Not slowly either it moved very rapidly. What did I do wrong? PLEASE HELP!! I am stumped..

Thanks,

Nick

2001 Suzuki Swift

4 cyl automatic


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:19 pm 
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Location: Iowa
I notice when the car is doing this quick up and down idle, if I shut the car off for a second and restart it, it stops the up and down idle. It does seem to idle a little fast. I also found if I unplug the throttle position switch / sensor, the up down stops but it just idles really fast.

PLEASE HELP!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:38 pm 
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Location: Prince George B.C. Canada
Change out your TPS. It's more than 90% guaranteed to be the culprit.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:15 pm 
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Do you think I damaged it with the large amounts of carb cleaner that I used to clean the throttle body??


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:55 pm 
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It's a good possibility it's been damaged or not seating properly. Your symptoms and tests lead me to believe it's the source of the problem.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:12 am 
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If your job damaged it or left it "not seating properly" wouldn't the symptoms appear from the get go?

Nick McCumber wrote:
I got done with the job, started the car and it ran great!!!


Before throwing parts at it, I'd hook up an OBD2 fault code reader.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:52 am 
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Location: Iowa
It only does it once the engine is hot. ..... Put it into park.... then it revs up and down.

I let the engine cool, drive t around the block once, put it into park and its fine being the eninge is cool.

Could I have a air pocket in the coolant lines that run upto the IAC?? I felt both lines going in and out and they felt hot...

If the tps was bad wouldent it act up weather its hot or cold??

BTW thanks for the comments!! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:18 pm 
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Location: Iowa
Just had it hooked up to the code reader... Before I did this job the only code I had was the IAC code..

p0108- Mass Air Flow Sensor

p0118- engine coolant temp circut

p0123- TPS Sensor

P0131- Heated oxygen sensor, bank 1, sensor 1

p0304- Cylinder Misfire, cylinder#4

p0505- IAC, idle speed lower or higer than expected

How did this all come from me cleaning the IAC valve??? Even more so do you guys think the TPS could be causing most of this (not including the engine coolant temp sensor)???


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:45 pm 
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Old3banger wrote:
If your job damaged it or left it "not seating properly" wouldn't the symptoms appear from the get go?

One word, NO.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Location: Iowa
I tested the resistance of the tps



with the red lead on top prong and black on bottom prong it tested

.38 while closed
2.50 while open

I think this is the correct way to do it...

It did try it with black lead on the middle prong and red lead on bottom prong, it tested
3.00 closed
.91 open

Any ideas?? This thing is killing me.

I also noticed that there was some moisture inside of the connection.. it cldnt be carb cleaner because it evaporate fast..

Are the ohms o.k.?? this would help me the most!!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:36 am 
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Location: Iowa
Some one from another suzuki web site thought this..

That sounds like you disturbed the 5V reference signal from the ECU or an earth wire somewhere.



How do I check to see if this is what happened???


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:30 am 
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i just troubleshooted this problem on my car last month. ill go find my note sheet to give you proper specs for the tps.
basically the reference voltage is used against the idle resistance (closed) and WOT and the computer uses those ranges against the return wire. paraphrasing the factory service manual. better yet if it helps ill upload the pages for troubleshooting rough idle too.

with all those DTCs set leads me to believe the ground strap on the TB was not connected.

there is no large reason why you'd get a systemic failure of all those components at once since they are all on the same branch circuit.
a simple test i used to see if the IAC is regulating the air channel correctly, or if there is a vacuum leak somewhere else is to run the engine with the intermediate intake off. plug your finger on the exhaust bypass intake. (bottom of TB ). if the engine does not immediately stall , there is a vacuum leak somewhere.
if you had removed the IAC regulator housing off the TB, or squirted enough carb cleaner in there take it apart, remove the old seal, chuck it and bead the channel with ultrablack before reinstall.

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Silver 2000 Firefly 4DR; 16V SOHC, 3 to 5 speed swap, install PS and AC, remote and auto start, PL, PW, kill and start switch, Valentine 1, behind-bumper CAI, 55MM TB with coolant-bypass, polyurethane-fill engine/shifter mounts, modified to short shifter, upgraded electrical system, CS130 alternator, 90/160W headlights + relay mod, ceramic H4 plug/harness
To do: finish stereo, 4000K H4 HIDs, short block replacement
'sponsored' by Captain Crunch, Lordco, Felpro, Permatex, Royal Purple


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:22 pm 
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Location: Iowa
I did the plug test. I took the main breather tube off and put my finger over the hole on the inside/bottom hole in the throttle body. When I plugged it the car instantly stalled out. I did notice if I used a piece of cloth and partially plugged it it brought the idle to normal and stopped the rapid up and down. I presume this hole leads to the iac so I tried this next. I unplugged the iac and it made no difference. The engine still idled up and down. I then partially plugged the same hole and it still stopped the up and down. So its not the iac valve opening and shutting because its not hooked up. I have a new tps on order but now I dont think this is the prob either as I can see the valve inside the throttle body during the up and down idle. Its not moving at all. Plus the ohms checked out fine. I have also noticed when sitting at stop lights the car idles a little high and smells a little gassy.

What other valve could be causing this fast up and down idle??? Could something that monitors air be malfunctioning and causing to much fuel to be injected causing the up and down idle???

Thanks for the help!!!

Nick


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:33 pm 
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try this. unplug the tps connector when the car is running and then for a moment should rev up and down. after that keep it unplugged and stop/start the engine again. should eliminate the tps problem, as default is set to idle setting on the pcm.

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Silver 2000 Firefly 4DR; 16V SOHC, 3 to 5 speed swap, install PS and AC, remote and auto start, PL, PW, kill and start switch, Valentine 1, behind-bumper CAI, 55MM TB with coolant-bypass, polyurethane-fill engine/shifter mounts, modified to short shifter, upgraded electrical system, CS130 alternator, 90/160W headlights + relay mod, ceramic H4 plug/harness
To do: finish stereo, 4000K H4 HIDs, short block replacement
'sponsored' by Captain Crunch, Lordco, Felpro, Permatex, Royal Purple


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Location: Trinidad, W.I.
Did you try resetting the ecu? Pull the -ve battery terminal for approx. 2 minutes and then reconnect and see if you still get all those codes.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, WA
clear the codes and start over. a few of those codes are likely from unplugging things.


mine does this intermittently. no codes stored. i have yet to be able to diagnose it. it only happens when im not at work so i havent been able to catch it when i can mess with it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Another thing which may be causing the codes is water sneaking into the wiring loom harness connector(s).
What I do when I have that problem is disconnect the connector, put a bit of grease on it, and plug it back in several times.
The action of the plug/unplug sequence over and over, plus the grease gives you shiny bright connections with better electron flow.
It can't hurt, and will help should you clean the engine compartment again with high pressure water.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:08 pm 
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make sure its permatex dielectric tune up grease.

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Silver 2000 Firefly 4DR; 16V SOHC, 3 to 5 speed swap, install PS and AC, remote and auto start, PL, PW, kill and start switch, Valentine 1, behind-bumper CAI, 55MM TB with coolant-bypass, polyurethane-fill engine/shifter mounts, modified to short shifter, upgraded electrical system, CS130 alternator, 90/160W headlights + relay mod, ceramic H4 plug/harness
To do: finish stereo, 4000K H4 HIDs, short block replacement
'sponsored' by Captain Crunch, Lordco, Felpro, Permatex, Royal Purple


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:30 am
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Location: Iowa
I am stumped!! I tried all above. The unhookin/rehooking, turning off turnin on.. etc. I even tried the new TPS,, didnt make a diff.

I took the complte throttle body assembly off again today and made sure I had the IAC installed the right way. I even took the iac apart and shot some light silicone spray just to make sure it turned freely. It turns so easy now, I can blow on it and it spins and spins.

When the engine is cool everything works great. When its hot,, it idles a little high when I'm in gear.. when I'm in neutral or park its still does the same rapid up and down idle.

I noticed 2nite that if I'm in park or neutral and rev the engine to (around 2000rpm) and hold the throttle steady, it still wants to rev up and down..... just at a higher rpm instead of at idle.

to recap-- (while engine is hot, in park)

The engine is reving up and down-- unplug iac (no change), unplug tps (up and down stops and idle goes up), unplug temp sensor (no change) unplug sensor or top of air intake (engine dies) ////// If I plug bottom hole on the inside of throttle body leading to IAC (engine dies) If I partially block hole inside throttle body leading to IAC (The up and down reving quits and idle slows to where it should be) could I be having issues with the sensor on top of the intake manifold?? I think its the map sensor?? This monitors the air correct?? Any more suggestions let me know.. Thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:47 pm 
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all right we should give you the factory service manual troubleshooting steps for your problem. stay tuned while i get it ready.

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Silver 2000 Firefly 4DR; 16V SOHC, 3 to 5 speed swap, install PS and AC, remote and auto start, PL, PW, kill and start switch, Valentine 1, behind-bumper CAI, 55MM TB with coolant-bypass, polyurethane-fill engine/shifter mounts, modified to short shifter, upgraded electrical system, CS130 alternator, 90/160W headlights + relay mod, ceramic H4 plug/harness
To do: finish stereo, 4000K H4 HIDs, short block replacement
'sponsored' by Captain Crunch, Lordco, Felpro, Permatex, Royal Purple


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:33 pm 
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here, 13 pages of high-res photos from the factory service manual covering troubleshooting idle speeds, the IAC and TPS, and default values for engine controls read on the code scanner.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5FG0MNP9
:mrgreen:
this should give you a few hours of work and hopefully find out what the problem is.

_________________
Silver 2000 Firefly 4DR; 16V SOHC, 3 to 5 speed swap, install PS and AC, remote and auto start, PL, PW, kill and start switch, Valentine 1, behind-bumper CAI, 55MM TB with coolant-bypass, polyurethane-fill engine/shifter mounts, modified to short shifter, upgraded electrical system, CS130 alternator, 90/160W headlights + relay mod, ceramic H4 plug/harness
To do: finish stereo, 4000K H4 HIDs, short block replacement
'sponsored' by Captain Crunch, Lordco, Felpro, Permatex, Royal Purple


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:11 am 
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Location: Trinidad, W.I.
Which of the temp sensors are you unplugging?

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Certified Suzuki Owner:
MKIII Swift GTi - The Green Destiny!
2010 Suzuki Jimny - The DD Workhorse!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:22 pm 
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I didnt realize there were more than one... I checked the one on the thermostat- when I unplugged it,, it makes the cooling fan turn on and the the temp gage not work...

Where is the other one???


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:38 am 
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Location: Trinidad, W.I.
Teal coloured connector, little lower down on the engine, same side as thermostat, closer to the front.....this is the one that sends the coolant temp signal to the ecu. The one you disconnected is a closed circuit simply to switch the fan on/off.

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Certified Suzuki Owner:
MKIII Swift GTi - The Green Destiny!
2010 Suzuki Jimny - The DD Workhorse!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:03 pm 
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i think you missed my last post. if you would have done the troubleshooting the problem would be solved by now.

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Silver 2000 Firefly 4DR; 16V SOHC, 3 to 5 speed swap, install PS and AC, remote and auto start, PL, PW, kill and start switch, Valentine 1, behind-bumper CAI, 55MM TB with coolant-bypass, polyurethane-fill engine/shifter mounts, modified to short shifter, upgraded electrical system, CS130 alternator, 90/160W headlights + relay mod, ceramic H4 plug/harness
To do: finish stereo, 4000K H4 HIDs, short block replacement
'sponsored' by Captain Crunch, Lordco, Felpro, Permatex, Royal Purple


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