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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:29 am 
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Hi,
My problem occurred after overheating the engine during tuneup (adjustable cam gear was retarded 4 degrees instead of being advanced 4 degrees). The head gasket was changed and head was checked for "cracks" etc.
After putting it all together there occurred a problem - when I accelerate at about 5500rpm engine stops at this revs and doesn't want to rev any more and it works as it has 2 or 3 cylinders and i works like this fore few more seconds when I take my foot of acceleration pedal.
I've changed fuel pump, ignition coil, spark plugs, ignition adapter, O2 sensor, ECU temp sensor and there is almost no change.

Friend told me that he had similar problem on 2.0 Opel engine and it was improperly connected ground cable of fuel rail - is there something like this in Swift GTi ??

I can't solve this problem since end of December - on low revs it works mostly normally - sometimes revs above 5700rpm (mostly on 1 gear) but above that engine doesn't work as smooth as it should.

Please HELP!!

Brgds

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Last edited by MKV on Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:32 am, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:50 am 
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You didn't say if you changed the fuel filter or not.


Ken....


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:02 am 
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91 ragtop wrote:
You didn't say if you changed the fuel filter or not.
Ken....


No - mechanic forgot to do that :/ - but it's impossible that fuel filter would give symptoms like this - at exactly 5700rpm it seems like fuel is injected into cylinders but there is no spark - it's not like engine gives less power - it suddenly looses power and it can't rev higher - it's very rapid like You would hit ignition cut off but engine starts to make strange noises like it can't burn injected fuel.
AFR is OK

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:10 am 
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Actually a fuel filter CAN GIVE this exact situation. A partially plug filter WILL reduce the amount of fuel flowing to the engine. And as anyone knows the higher the revs the more fuel consumed by the engine. I would suspect yout timing is out though. When you did the cyl head I am betting the timing belt is out by a tooth or 2. As for a ground, yes there is a main harness ground that bolts to the intake manifold in the #4 intake runner. You can try cleaning it to see if it improves.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:39 am 
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TheINCRide wrote:
Actually a fuel filter CAN GIVE this exact situation. A partially plug filter WILL reduce the amount of fuel flowing to the engine. And as anyone knows the higher the revs the more fuel consumed by the engine. I would suspect yout timing is out though. When you did the cyl head I am betting the timing belt is out by a tooth or 2. As for a ground, yes there is a main harness ground that bolts to the intake manifold in the #4 intake runner. You can try cleaning it to see if it improves.


Fuel filter could give this but than how can You explain that if engine will rev above 5700rpm than it revs till fuel cut off (currently at 8200rpm) ant it gives more and more power (but not smooth as it should).

Timing belt is set correctly (at least both cam gears are set correctly - only possible fault here would be incorrect setting of timing belt on crankshaft - but I'll check to be 100% sure of that.

First thing I'll do I will check gre ground cable You just mentioned - thanks :)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:25 am 
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What about ecu generated codes?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:06 am 
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PBC137 wrote:
What about ecu generated codes?


#12, so...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:59 am 
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Go over and recheck all your grounds. Check to make sure all the correct ignition components are installed. We get this exact same symptom on mr2s when using a 91/92 ignitor on 93+ cars.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:58 am 
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VR4 wrote:
Go over and recheck all your grounds. Check to make sure all the correct ignition components are installed. We get this exact same symptom on mr2s when using a 91/92 ignitor on 93+ cars.


I've reconnected 4 ground cables that are screwed to intake manifold on cylinder #4 and ground cable near car battery that is connected to chassis. I've also used special something in spray for better electrical connectivity. Now I'm at work but I'll see if that helped after 23:00 local time when I'll be going back home from work.

UPDATE 1:
Theres no difference after checkin groun cables on intake manifold :(
What do do next? Try different fuel injectors?

UPDATE 2:
I don't know why but power distributor "finger" under distributor cap was loose, and ignition was about 0 although it was set to be max advanced and I can;t advance it more - only was is by adjustable cam gears which I have installed but set to zero. Now I thing I should advance intake camshaft but as I recall after doing that power drops dramatically - after advancing intake camshaft by about 4 deg as I remember max power dropper from 131hp to about 110hp :/

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Last edited by MKV on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:00 am 
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Problem with overheating occurred after my last post. Problem were damaged hydraulic lifters - they did not hold pressure and were soft after disassembled from engine.
However the problem with unburing fuel still exists. Yesterday I've retardet ignition a little from full advance and engine started to rev beyond 5500rpm - on 2nd gear with little glitch and on 3rd gear without problem.
However today morning problem occurred in exact the same way - at 5500rpm engine stops reving further and the fuel is not burned.

What is going on here????!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:26 am 
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Distributor, coil.....swap them out and see if the problem goes away.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:37 am 
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PBC137 wrote:
Distributor, coil.....swap them out and see if the problem goes away.


So far I've changed:
- just to check - high tension cords (NGK but I'm using Magnecor Competition)
- spark plugs (Denso Irydium Tough)
- ignition coil (new)
- power unit (new Suzuki Genuine Parts)
- O2 sensor (Denso)
- temeprature sensor for ECU
- new MAF (new Suzuki Genuine Parts)
- changed TPS

Now I'll change whole distributor.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:28 pm 
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MKV wrote:
PBC137 wrote:
Distributor, coil.....swap them out and see if the problem goes away.


So far I've changed:
- just to check - high tension cords (NGK but I'm using Magnecor Competition)
- spark plugs (Denso Irydium Tough)
- ignition coil (new)
- power unit (new Suzuki Genuine Parts)
- O2 sensor (Denso)
- temeprature sensor for ECU
- new MAF (new Suzuki Genuine Parts)
- changed TPS

Now I'll change whole distributor.


Yesterday I've changed:
- ECU to completely stock F3
- power distributor

Still no improvement. I've set ignition advance to 12-13 deg Before Top-Dead-Center (BTDC) and on these settings power distributor is turned to almost full advance - is this normal?


My next guess would be to find out:
- what does control ignition advance in Swift GTi on higher revs - ECU or is there any mechanical thing?
- Is it possible that the fault in alternator would do something like that (no spark often at 5500rpm but sometimes there it is)
- install stock cams and see what will happen

This problem persists 1 year already - anybody - help me :(

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:08 am 
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Hmmm...apart from changing the fuel pump did you check any other aspects of the fuel system? Other causes I can think of may be dirty injectors, faulty fpr, and worse case, ECU.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:27 pm 
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PBC137 wrote:
Hmmm...apart from changing the fuel pump did you check any other aspects of the fuel system? Other causes I can think of may be dirty injectors, faulty fpr, and worse case, ECU.


I've changed fuel pump and as I just wrote I've changed ECU yesterday.
I didn't change injectors yet but I have spare set with fuel rail so I thing this might be next step to check. After that is only alternator I suppose and that checking all electrical cables :/

ps. whats FPR ??

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:45 pm 
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MKV wrote:
PBC137 wrote:
Hmmm...apart from changing the fuel pump did you check any other aspects of the fuel system? Other causes I can think of may be dirty injectors, faulty fpr, and worse case, ECU.


I've changed fuel pump and as I just wrote I've changed ECU yesterday.
I didn't change injectors yet but I have spare set with fuel rail so I thing this might be next step to check. After that is only alternator I suppose and that checking all electrical cables :/

ps. whats FPR ??


FPR= fuel pressure regulator.

You mentioned getting 131hp on the dyno... is your engine turbocharged or NA? Have you chipped the ECU or have some kind off piggyback? maybe posting more details about the mods and management could help. Using a 60mm- throttle body alone, seems to cause flat-spots on the power curve with stock ECU.
You also mentioned a normal AFR.... if it stays normal when the problem occurs than I wouldn't worry about the FPR, but changing the fuel filter won't be a bad idea. Than I would fully focus on the ignition system and timing.
Iridium plugs are not recommend for turbo or nitrous, as officially stated at the NGK site.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:22 pm 
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I was really disappointed with how iridium plugs performed when I had them on my turbo GTi.

Just a suggestion but buy a set of standard copper NGK's and drop the gaps to say around .6-.65mm and see if that helps.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:08 am 
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jankoelbola wrote:
Iridium plugs are not recommend for turbo or nitrous, as officially stated at the NGK site.


Thing is my engine is fully NA.
At this moment (after changing lot of things) my engine spec would be:

- 260 sport cams with adjustable cam gears (but set to 0 )
- fully modified head - porting, valves etc
- engine block part fully balanced (crankshaft, clutch etc)
- K&N dedicated cone ait filter
- 4-1 Genie exhaust manifold with 2" pipe (no cat.) and custom muffler
- new +0.50 ARCO pistons
- new high tension cords NGK
- new fuel pump
- new ignition coil
- new power unit (Suzuki Genuine Parts)
- new O2 sensor (Denso)
- new temeprature sensor for ECU
- new MAF (Suzuki Genuine Parts) ,
- spark plugs (Denso Irydium Tough) but checked on normal new Denso plugs - was the same
- changed TPS
- changed ECU to completely stock F3 (normally I use modified F3 with 8200rpm rev limit + Ecumaster Digital ECU Tuner 3 piggy back)
- changed whole power distributor
- changed 60mm Nissans SR20DE throttle body back to stock


It seems to me that there is a problem on hall rev band because when engine is cold it also has problems working correctly as it should - i mean it works but I can tell something is not right (besides that engine on this cams works on stock ECU ;) )

So I suppose next step would be to change fuel injectors along with FPR and fuel filter...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:19 pm 
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Changed fuel injectors along with Fuel Pressure Regulator and spark plugs (NGK BPR6ES)just to be sure - no change...

I wonder why I can rev engine to the end without problem when I'm on a stop (no engine load) and I can't during acceleration (full load) - well sometimes I can with little glitch (also don't know why)...

It looks like at 5500rpm injectors give fuel but there's no spark or like timing phase is wrong or something.

Next step I supose will be installing stock cams with stock cam shafts and see where it goes...


HELP :(

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:23 am 
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Are you using a catalytic converter?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:51 am 
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1987TurboSprint wrote:
Are you using a catalytic converter?


Nope, I had one few years back but don't have it for a long time now...

I'm thinking now about fuel filter...

BTW - car burns about 12L od gas per 100km... so it's a lot and I don't know why :/

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:14 pm 
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With 12litres of fuel, given moderate compression and not too crazy timing (cam and ignition), you should get around 130km city.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:20 pm 
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PBC137 wrote:
With 12litres of fuel, given moderate compression and not too crazy timing (cam and ignition), you should get around 130km city.


It's about 11-12 liters per 100KM in City/mixed driving and I can't rev above 5500rpm.

Today I've changed fuel filter and set cam timing to default after checking different settings. Still almost no change (perhaps a little improvement only).

I don't know what to do next. Again check compression??

Mayby somethink broke when cooling liquid got to cylinders when I've overheated engine (there was a lot of steam from exhaust and I had to drive like this few kilometers). Could for example piston rings get some damage??

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:31 pm 
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MKV wrote:
PBC137 wrote:
With 12litres of fuel, given moderate compression and not too crazy timing (cam and ignition), you should get around 130km city.


It's about 11-12 liters per 100KM in City/mixed driving and I can't rev above 5500rpm.

Today I've changed fuel filter and set cam timing to default after checking different settings. Still almost no change (perhaps a little improvement only).

I don't know what to do next. Again check compression??

Mayby somethink broke when cooling liquid got to cylinders when I've overheated engine (there was a lot of steam from exhaust and I had to drive like this few kilometers). Could for example piston rings get some damage??


Sounds like to many things have been checked and changed, time to step back.

It's most likely fuel or spark. If you had a wide band you could tell right away, if its fuel! For spark you may hook up timing light and run into car to watch if it drop off at the RPM. Then you can focus on the cause in this direction. If spark is good injectors or what controls the injectors.

You mentioned lifters at one time were changed? Could they be a problem? What is your compression?

Not sure on what 260 cams means duration? But stock cams may be worth testing with and start fresh on cam set up.

Just to repeat does it rev smooth past 5500 if you are not under load? Does it fail right at other loads and rpms ?

I know is frustrating, but there is something wrong ?

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Last edited by wgotzman on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:29 am 
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wgotzman wrote:
MKV wrote:
PBC137 wrote:
With 12litres of fuel, given moderate compression and not too crazy timing (cam and ignition), you should get around 130km city.


It's about 11-12 liters per 100KM in City/mixed driving and I can't rev above 5500rpm.

Today I've changed fuel filter and set cam timing to default after checking different settings. Still almost no change (perhaps a little improvement only).

I don't know what to do next. Again check compression??

Mayby somethink broke when cooling liquid got to cylinders when I've overheated engine (there was a lot of steam from exhaust and I had to drive like this few kilometers). Could for example piston rings get some damage??


Sounds like to many things have been checked and changed, time to step back.

It's most likely fuel or spark. If you had a wide band you could tell right away, if its fuel! For spark you may hook up timing light and run into car to watch if it drop off at the RPM. Then you can focus on the cause in this direction. If spark is good injectors or what controls the injectors.

You mentioned lifters at one time were changed? Could they be a problem? What is your compression?

Not sure on what 260 cams means duration? But stock cams may be worth testing with and start fresh on cam set up.

Just to repeat does it rev smooth past 5500 if you are not under load? Does it fell right at other loads and rpms ?

I know is frustrating, but there is something wrong ?


Just another thought- if the intake cam, which is the distributor link to rotor is retarded by a tooth or for some reason the rotor is following behind then.
You are then advancing the distributor just to get timing increased all the way mechanical. When the ECU continues to advance the spark it could hit a point where the spark is beyond the rotors edge or close. So no spark getting to plugs ? Lost in distributor.

Most of the time the width of the rotor is more than enough for spark shift from ECU.

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