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 Post subject: Oil Burn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 178
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
I checked the oil after the first 300 or so miles. I was down 1 1/4 quarts of oil.
I checked the compression:

#1 225
#2 216
#3 229
#4 221

Wet
#1 235, #2 222, #3 243, #4 230
All the seals are new, and everything is dry.
I am switching back to non-synthetic for the time being.

This means rings or valve seals. The compression standard is 206.2 psi. Variation max difference 14.2 psi.

The higher compression means: carbon build up (the piston tops are clean), shaved head and or block (with the timing belt pulley being where it is this is unlikely), higher compression pistons, or inaccurate tester.

I will test again with more controlled method of wet test for oil (a syringe).
With the high compression to begin with I am a little thrown off by the numbers. Everything is within 14 psi, and there is no symptoms of a blown headgasket (coolant is steady and exactly how it should be, no smoke or even smell of oil burn).
What do you guys think?


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 Post subject: Re: Oil Burn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:41 am
Posts: 170
Location: Oregon
He has a 92 GT.

_________________
91 Metro,93 Swift 1.3L 8-valve, 3.5 tranny, late front brakes, swift rear discs, late sway bars, Esteem seats, 205/50r 15s, build:http://geometroforum.com/topic/4850034/1/
Swift bumpers and taillights :D
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I sold this car to a friend at work. I now have a Saturn L which is an Opel Vectra B.


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 Post subject: Re: Oil Burn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1408
Location: Alberta, Canada
It's rings. Compression test wet or dry will not pinpoint this. It's the oil rings that aren't working properly and causing the issue. Very common to be diagnosed as valve seals, because valve seals are easier and many don't understand what's actually happening in order for that amount of oil to be burnt. Your compression numbers are fantastic, I bet your head will check out perfectly, just needs to come off and new rings put on and you will have no more oil burning issues. If you leave it to long, compression will drop as carbon from the burning oil accumulates on the valves and prevents them from sealing.

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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 Post subject: Re: Oil Burn
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 178
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
codyb76 wrote:
It's rings. Compression test wet or dry will not pinpoint this. It's the oil rings that aren't working properly and causing the issue. Very common to be diagnosed as valve seals, because valve seals are easier and many don't understand what's actually happening in order for that amount of oil to be burnt. Your compression numbers are fantastic, I bet your head will check out perfectly, just needs to come off and new rings put on and you will have no more oil burning issues. If you leave it to long, compression will drop as carbon from the burning oil accumulates on the valves and prevents them from sealing.


Thanks. I was thinking oil ring with the compression being so high. I figured it was unlikely that the valve seals would be letting so much oil slip by. I appreciate the advice. Now I need to decide what pistons and rings to go with for turbo rebuild. I knew when I bought the car that I would be fully rebuilding the engine. I will have to save and budget to make this happen. If it is too much I will throw in some rings in the meantime and come back when my part list is complete.


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 Post subject: Re: Oil Burn
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 178
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
Okay I went through quite a few pages and I'm not seeing a recommendation for stock G13b piston rings. I know it is in there somewhere, but if someone could make a recommendation here I would be great full, and my headache might start going away. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Oil Burn
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1408
Location: Alberta, Canada
There is a brand called NPR(believe it stands for Nippon piston ring, thats worked well for many engines and common to find on eBay. Dnj is a big name in import engine parts, and I have used many sets of that brand with perfect results each time, sealed power is fine, of course Oem is the best.
I've done rings on a very large number of g10's and g13's over the years, around 500 to date. I honestly have never had a ring issue or oil burning with any brand of ring I used. Im fairly certain that many of them are the same part in a different brand name packaging. On that note, you really don't need to lose any sleep, and once you tackle it, you won't find it's a big deal. Most times rod bearings get replaced at the same time, but it's not uncommon to find that they look brand new in a Suzuki engine, and can be reused quite safely (although many would argue this).

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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 Post subject: Re: Oil Burn
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 178
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
Thanks again. I saw both DNJ and NPR. I used the DNJ in my metros, but I was never sure of the quality. I won't use a seal or gasket kit from DNJ, but had no experience on their rings. The difference between the OEM and DNJ is about $20. I didn't find any Sealed Power ones. I replaced the bearings on one of Metro's and left them on another one. I won't be able to order the rings until I have it apart to make sure they are not oversized, and or even what pistons are in there. I'm ordering a FelPro gasket set, and will order up some valves, and guides from 3-tech if they are even slightly worn. Either way I throw in new valve guides.

I was having fun with the car today, and like everyone says these things love being above 4000 rpms. I was really impressed. I'm still down about having to do the rings.

However If the pan is coming back off I might go ahead and weld a oil return line in and just cap it for now. I think I saw others going to the block, but the pan should work better.


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 Post subject: Re: Oil Burn
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1408
Location: Alberta, Canada
Agreed on dnj seals and gaskets. Was using them because they provide a really complete set for a good price, but later found them to be lacking in quality. Everything rubber seems to shrink and seep really quickly.
At that price difference I'd go Oem, but are you sure that you aren't comparing one piston worth of Oem rings to a set of dnj rings that covers all 4? On Hondas, Oem is about $50 per hole, and about the same or just a bit more for a dnj set.
3tech will be able to advise better, but in my experience the valve guides are often in excellent shape and not worn on most of the Suzuki heads. I wouldn't be surprised if you find them to be ok when you get it apart. Sounds like you've got a really good handle on what you're up to, so I'd say continue planning and you're gonna get where you need to be.
Have you considered putting 98-01 1.3 16v pistons in, for the drop in lower compression? You can get a set of them with new rings for fairly cheap to drop compression. Now that said, I currently run stock gt long block with guarndi's chip and a Subaru turbo. It works amazing, tons of power, no detonation issues at 8-10psi and rock solid reliable for a season or two of daily driving. A custom tuned setup would be better yet, but for what I have, I'm really happy to have stock compression because it works so well.

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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 Post subject: Re: Oil Burn
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:21 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Oss, the Netherlands
I re-ringed mine 90000 kilometers ago, it had superb compression, but slowly started to burn more and more oil and developed a serious case of piston slap. Turned out that the cylinders had gotten oval and there was a lot of blowby under load. I don't know the mileage of your car, but when you have the pistons out anyway, you might as well check them. If it's like this extreme case (yes it's mine :P ), a re-ring probably won't do the trick for long:


_________________
'95 Swift 1.0:

- 0,5mm oversized pistons
- mildly ported head, 1,7mm taken off
- ss exhaust valves
- 222/365 3tech cam
- +10 gear
- K&N air filter
- TBI bridge removed
- 40mm throttle and intake manifold
- srd underdrive pulley
- AASCO 3kg flywheel with GTi clutch
- GTi catback
- deleted cat, now 2" ss pipe
- 14x6J ET45 BSA Racing
- Nankang AS-1 165/55-14
- 35mm lower Apex front and rear springs
- GTi sway bar
- Turbinetech underbody brace
- Ultra Racing upper strut bar

0-100kph: unknown seconds


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 Post subject: Re: Oil Burn
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 178
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
codyb76 wrote:
Agreed on dnj seals and gaskets. Was using them because they provide a really complete set for a good price, but later found them to be lacking in quality. Everything rubber seems to shrink and seep really quickly.
At that price difference I'd go Oem, but are you sure that you aren't comparing one piston worth of Oem rings to a set of dnj rings that covers all 4? On Hondas, Oem is about $50 per hole, and about the same or just a bit more for a dnj set.
3tech will be able to advise better, but in my experience the valve guides are often in excellent shape and not worn on most of the Suzuki heads. I wouldn't be surprised if you find them to be ok when you get it apart. Sounds like you've got a really good handle on what you're up to, so I'd say continue planning and you're gonna get where you need to be.
Have you considered putting 98-01 1.3 16v pistons in, for the drop in lower compression? You can get a set of them with new rings for fairly cheap to drop compression. Now that said, I currently run stock gt long block with guarndi's chip and a Subaru turbo. It works amazing, tons of power, no detonation issues at 8-10psi and rock solid reliable for a season or two of daily driving. A custom tuned setup would be better yet, but for what I have, I'm really happy to have stock compression because it works so well.


I pretty sure it was for the set, but I'll find out rather quickly. Interesting enough I was planning on staying with high compression pistons for now (under 8 psi if I boost on them).

I still am a ways out before I can go turbo.
I have the turbo (IHI RBH5vj11) and intercooler with piping.
Things I need:
Centerforce dual friction clutch or SPEC II
Walbro 190 or 250
Chip would be way better than rising rate fuel pressure regulator
Boost controller
Wideband
By-pass valve
2 1/2" down pipe (I'll make)
High flow cat
Exhaust manifold (I'll make)
Custom made o2 housing (I'll make)
Crx si calipers and bracket


I will pull the engine hopefully soon, and I want to have the clutch on hand.


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 Post subject: Re: Oil Burn
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 178
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
Peenutzz wrote:
I re-ringed mine 90000 kilometers ago, it had superb compression, but slowly started to burn more and more oil and developed a serious case of piston slap. Turned out that the cylinders had gotten oval and there was a lot of blowby under load. I don't know the mileage of your car, but when you have the pistons out anyway, you might as well check them. If it's like this extreme case (yes it's mine :P ), a re-ring probably won't do the trick for long:




I doubt it, but I hope not.


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