TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:20 am

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:27 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Costa Rica
Hello!

Am new posting in this forum, but it have saved me before when i did previous repairs on my car as a mechanic hobbyist.

My car started to have a tapping nosie in the valve cover, so i suspected a problem in the hydraulic valve lash adjusters. I was planning to check on that during the weekend, but a couple of days before i was driving back home when i heard a louder tapping noise and the engine suddenly stoppped. I tried to crank it but it didn start. I have Suzuki Swift 1996 Hatchback, 1.3L (4 cylinders), Engine G13B, around 130 000 miles. I got it in 2011 and havent done a major work in the engine, it was working fine since then. I dont know if the previous owner did something to the engine.

After having my car towed to my home i took the valve cover off and i found 2 surprises: No.1) My car doesnt use hydraulic valve lash adjusters (which doesnt match my suzuki original service manual); and No.2) Two screws that holds the rockers arm shafts got loosed so the arms were causing the tapping noise (Check the picture). When you manually crank the engine you can see that when the 4th cyl valves open/close the exhaust rocker arm shaft bar goes up and down (doesnt stays attached to the engine block).

Attachment:
File comment: Red circles indicates the loosen bolts.
valve_train_issue.jpg
valve_train_issue.jpg [ 516.44 KIB | Viewed 869 times ]


That was my 1st time opening the valve cover on this car. I also noticed that someone had work in the head before me.

I had to replace the screws with new ones and longer, because the engine block threads got damaged. After that i took off the distributor unit to fix an oil leak that i had there (replaced o-ring and retainer) then i set the TDC at Cylinder #1 and putted back the distributor. I replaced the rotor with a new one in the appropiate location according to the TDC set.

After putting everything back together i tried to start the engine but i didn work. The engine seems to crank well but doesnt start. So started to check the ignition system, specifically high tension cords, spark plugs and ignition coil (primary and secondary resistance). I even did the ignition check using a screwdriver attached to the high tension cord and getting it very close to a grounded surface, i saw weak electrical arc. I decided to replace the high tension cords and the distributor cap. But after doing that it was harder to get an electrical arc, i also tried using a grounded spark plug instead of a screwdriver and i couldnt get a spark! I assembled everything back again, and the result was: no ignition. So I suspected an ignition problem but i had checked and replaced a lot of things and they seem to be fine.

After reaching this point i decided to do something different, so i did a compression test and SURPRISE! Found this results: Cyl #1: 70 psi, Cyl #2: Couldn do it because the spark plug is kinda stucked, but the thread was already messed up (someone did it in a garage shop), Cyl #3: 100 psi and Cyl #4: 150 psi. I did a compression test on january and all 4 cylinders were around 165 psi. So as you can see something else happened.

What i cant figure out is how the rocker arm shaft getting loosed messed up the compression. And whats is causing the compression problem.
Could it be the cylinders rings? the head gasket? a broken valve?

I will appreciate any guidance or suggestions here before tearing apart the whole engine!

Thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:43 pm
Posts: 720
Location: Texas 75150
With no or weak spark the car will not start. That year has a crankshaft sensor. If the wiring sensor is oily and
there is oil inside of the electrical connector the car will not start. bad sensor, car will not start.
I would look to make sure all of the grounds are clean and making good contact. There should be a ground wir that goes from the base of the coil to near the distributor on the engine. This one is important to have and will cause all kinds of issues if not there.
Also a loose crankshaft timing sprocket is common to run into and will need to be checked to be sure it is tight on the cranlshaft.
If it is loose on the crankshaft it will make a ticking sound, and may need to be replaced.

_________________
Fainya
97 Geo Metro LSI,1.3L-GT-DOHC-16v,4.10 5-speed,A/C,170,000,suspension lowered 1",4 wheel disk brakes,15"alloy wheels with 185/50-15 Toyo's,GT bucket seats,analog oil pressure gauge,cruise control, new paint job. 40 mpg at 65 mph.
Good, fast, cheap. You only get two.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:10 am
Posts: 342
Location: Palm Springs, Calif
First, a comment on the overall look of your engine internals:
it looks like you have been using pretty good oil in there. 8)
That's good.

Next, how can the two bolts circled in red affect compression?
If that intake bolt is loose, it will not allow #2 & #3 intake valves to open all the way.
They only have .006" clearance.
So if they aren't opening all the way, then you aren't getting air into those cylinders.
If the exhaust bolt (circled in red) is loose, then your exhaust valve won't open all the way and your #4 cylinder would 'pop' in the exhaust once in a while.
Did you have a loss of power gradually in the engine? If so, that exhaust valve bolt would explain it.

A quick and easy fix:
You should check the intake and exhaust bolts, and then adjust the clearances.
Exhausts should be set at .008".
Once those are done, you can do another compression test.
If that fixes it, no need to read any further.

Finally, why won't it start?

Usually we look at the LAST thing you did to it and work backwards.
However, due to a very good picture and a great background of what happened prior to the engine failure, I would take a look at something a bit different than what has been mentioned elsewhere.
You were driving it and it suddenly failed.
It has a lot of miles and other than proper fluid and filter changes, you haven't really worked on the engine.
This tells me you may have a problem in the timing belt area.

Consider this:
If a timing belt slips a tooth, the engine compression would drop and the engine would not run anymore - suddenly.
What if all that 'slop' in the overhead valve train caused the belt to finally slip off a tooth?
Or maybe even two.

Non 'quick and easy' fix:
Get a new water pump and a timing belt to match the one which is currently on the vehicle and install. Then check for normal compression.

Know this: your previous compression test results of 165 indicate an engine which is due for a rebuild. This engine of your may need a rebuild, however, if a new timing belt brings the compression back up, then you may get a few years more out of the engine while saving up for internal engine parts.

If your compression continues to be low, you may also have a bad head gasket, but it is rare for a bad head gasket to cause and engine to fail 'suddenly'. First it will overheat.

Keep this thread updated from time to time with your results and thanks for posting a comprehensive and well illustrated situation.
More pictures = more information.
More information = more help.

Others here are more experienced with your particular engine type, so maybe they'll fine tune your help.

Stupid question: any codes?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1409
Location: Alberta, Canada
There is no way to adjust valve clearance on that generation, and 165psiacross the board is acceptable compression on that gen 1.3L. Fortunately they don't suffer from valve sealing issues like the 3cyls.
What they do suffer from is broken piston skirts, which I would have initially guessed in this case for the source of the noise until the loose rocker shaft bolts showed up. The symptom of broken piston skirt is first just a quiet ticking or knocking, which progressively gets worse and later sounds like a turned bearing, knocking quite loudly, but generall still running ok. Eventually the piston pieces fall off and the oil ring falls out if place, then it either hardly runs, or suddenly Smokes badly.
In general all this chaos will not prevent the engine from starting though. The other posters have offered excellent advice on that front. Make sure you have spark, make sure your check engine light comes on with initial key on so you know computer is powered up, listen for fuel pump to cycle, remove air cleaner and check for fuel spraying when cranking.

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:46 pm
Posts: 887
Location: Arizona
codyb76 wrote:
There is no way to adjust valve clearance on that generation


Valve lash adjusters are clearly visible in the pic. so I would say disregard that statement :blackeye:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1409
Location: Alberta, Canada
Oops. Dammit, the pic wasn't quite clear on my phone. I had 95-97 1.3 in my head for some reason. Indeed it is adjustable, my mistake

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:27 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Costa Rica
Hey Guys,

Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions!

Me and a friend finally solved this! Lucky i didn tear apart the engine! Two things were causing the problem:

A) The signal rotor air gap inside teh distributor (between the rotor tooth and CMP sensor generator) was out of specification. That caused the weak or non ignition spark. I adjusted that gap to 0.2 mm (0.008 in.) according to my service manual.

B) Rocker screws adjustment (my car doesnt use hydraulic valve lash adjusters) were lost. My friend adjusted that since i couldnt find that on my service manual because it was mented for hydraulic valve lash adjusters. Probably the loosed rocker arms shaft messed the valves adjustment and affected the engine compression by letting the air out of the cylinders. I havent done another compression test yet.

This solved all the problems and is running just fine! Later am gone perform an ignition timing.

I hope this experience helps others!

Thank everyone!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group