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94 T-Belt question
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=62321
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Author:  Bad Goat [ Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  94 T-Belt question

Do the timing belts on 94 swifts use a 3/4" round tooth timing belt? if not does anyone know of g family engine that does? Thanks!

Author:  geopat [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

Are you looking for a belt to fit a twincam or a 3cyl?

Author:  crazyman [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

I was going to answer but didn't want to be the first. IIRC, the early G10's had the square tooth, the laters the round. Beyond that,......

Author:  codyb76 [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

In Canada at least, 92 was the switching year from square teeth to round teeth. Most all 94 with original engine will be round tooth 3/4" belt (referring to 3cyl here)

Author:  suprf1y [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

I believe 93 was the year.

Some 93 G10's are round, and some square

Author:  t3 ragtop [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

for verts, the mk2 90 - 91 cars had the square tooth timing belts and the mk3 82- 93 cars had the square tooth belts.

on the hatchbacks 94 was a year where they had a mid-year production change and used an upgraded idle control, the cast cam pulley, and the thin round tooth timing belt. those components sort of stayed in the system through the mk4 95 production year.

i'd say that it's a pretty common thing to find a newer production engine swapped to an older car which retains the later model timing belt and gear. i have even seen g10 engines in older cars that even had the crank sensor - there but not plugged into anything. :wink:

Author:  Bad Goat [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

Sorry about that, I should have said which motor. I was asking about the G13sohc engines.

Author:  geopat [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

The samurai uses a 3/4inch round tooth belt. It is a 1.3 8valve engine.

Author:  Bad Goat [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

geopat wrote:
The samurai uses a 3/4inch round tooth belt. It is a 1.3 8valve engine.
I'm pretty sure the samurai uses a square tooth. That's actually why i'm asking.

i'm trying to fit a trigger wheel to a g13a (88 samurai). I bolted on g13bb oil pump, cam gear, crank gear and 97 timing belt and it all seemed to work but..... i couldn't get the timing cover back on because I was using a 1" timing belt. I'm thinking about having the crank gear machined down to 3/4", but I'd need a 3/4" round tooth timing belt.

Author:  crazyman [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

If you are careful, you might be able to let it run with no cover and gently run a knife on the belt holding it the right direction so it doesn't suck you in until it's cut down to the gear. Shut it off, pop the belt and finish the cut.

Author:  geopat [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

Bad Goat wrote:
geopat wrote:
The samurai uses a 3/4inch round tooth belt. It is a 1.3 8valve engine.
I'm pretty sure the samurai uses a square tooth. That's actually why i'm asking.

i'm trying to fit a trigger wheel to a g13a (88 samurai). I bolted on g13bb oil pump, cam gear, crank gear and 97 timing belt and it all seemed to work but..... i couldn't get the timing cover back on because I was using a 1" timing belt. I'm thinking about having the crank gear machined down to 3/4", but I'd need a 3/4" round tooth timing belt.


Your probably right I had a 1.6 in my samurai longer then the 1.3 and the 1.6 was a round tooth belt.

Why not just source a timing belt cover from a MK4 1.3 8 valve you could probably get one new through your local chevy dealer for way less then getting the pulleys machined

Author:  Bad Goat [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

Mk4 that's 1999+? I don't think the G13bb covers fit on the older motors.

Author:  geopat [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

Mk4 is 95 to 97. They had the 4cyl 1.3 8valve. Lots of samurai guys like grabbing the aluminum valve covers off of them.

Author:  Bad Goat [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

Mmmm id probably need to space the alternator and t belt out a 1/4 inch. But it could work.

Author:  Bad Goat [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

A 94 1.3 L Swift definitely has a three-quarter inch round two timing belt. Must not be a common part, none of the auto parts stores in town had it in stock. I had ordered in

Author:  t3 ragtop [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

having been faced with the same task of adding a trigger wheel to generate a timing signal i came up with the astounding thought to put the trigger wheel on the front side, clear of all the belts. :wink:

Image

Author:  Bad Goat [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

t3 ragtop wrote:
having been faced with the same task of adding a trigger wheel to generate a timing signal i came up with the astounding thought to put the trigger wheel on the front side, clear of all the belts. :wink:

Image


Why did you make the trigger angle adjustable? I'm Still new to megasquirt.

Author:  t3 ragtop [ Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

that was the first one i built and i wasn't sure how easy it would be to dial in. given the difficulty of precisely milling the concentric slots the following units didn't include them.

now when i build them i index the missing tooth in a fixed position and make the pickup sensor adjustable by about 5 degrees to dial in tdc plus 38 degrees.

you want the missing tooth set ahead of tdc by about the same as the total advance. then you can enter the advance of the missing tooth into the tuner studio software. as long as you lead tdc it gives the electronics time to make the calculations before the ignition event(s) occur. :wink:

by the way, that's a modified 5" 36-1 trigger wheel from a ford aerostar 6 cylinder engine mounted to a 4" aluminum accessory pulley that was from 3 tech performance.

Author:  Bad Goat [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

Thanks for all the great information. I dropped off the gear to get machined down, just because that was the quickest way to get my project to move along. But i noticed the that the MK4 swifts had roller rockers? I'm going to have to post some question about this.

T3 ragtop, do have any neat cam sensors you've done?

Author:  Woodie [ Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

Unfortunately, at the other end of the roller rockers are the worst tiny little hydraulic lifters ever known to man.

Author:  suprf1y [ Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

I did look at machining a hydraulic to mechanical conversion for that roller rocker arm. Wouldn't be hard, but then we'd have to find a suitable cam grind for that rocker ratio. There are some real possibilities there, but the early rockers work fine, and there are many excellent profiles.

Author:  Bad Goat [ Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

Woodie wrote:
Unfortunately, at the other end of the roller rockers are the worst tiny little hydraulic lifters ever known to man.


suprf1y wrote:
I did look at machining a hydraulic to mechanical conversion for that roller rocker arm. Wouldn't be hard, but then we'd have to find a suitable cam grind for that rocker ratio. There are some real possibilities there, but the early rockers work fine, and there are many excellent profiles.


Do the lifters just have issues at higher RPMs, or do they just have issues all the way around? I cruise around 3400, and might see 4500 when driving in the sand. I have not really found a need to rev my Samurai way up there.

Author:  codyb76 [ Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

I've dealt with a very large number of those cars and have never really seen a lifter problem. Not a terribly common issue. They will def have no problem at the rpm levels you are describing. The auto cars rev pretty high cruising down big highways quite happily.
I'm not sure how far into the project and such you are but I think one thing to note is the difference in intake patterns between the newer (95-97) and older 89-94 heads. Don't think the intake will swap over, I think the 95-97 is sort of its own animals, where the older ones are similar to samurai, and the newer 98-01's are similar to samurai 16v 1.6's intake and exhaust patterns.

Author:  Bad Goat [ Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

codyb76 wrote:
I've dealt with a very large number of those cars and have never really seen a lifter problem. Not a terribly common issue. They will def have no problem at the rpm levels you are describing. The auto cars rev pretty high cruising down big highways quite happily.
I'm not sure how far into the project and such you are but I think one thing to note is the difference in intake patterns between the newer (95-97) and older 89-94 heads. Don't think the intake will swap over, I think the 95-97 is sort of its own animals, where the older ones are similar to samurai, ........

I'm not very far into my project. I'll get the trigger wheel and fuel injection going before I mess with anything cam related. I'm still running with a carb.

The head on the samurai g13 is different than any of the swifts. Other than the distributor, intake, and cooling everything else seems to bolt right up between the 8 valve motors. I want to get to individual coil packs eventually, and that might open some options for using the roller cam.

codyb76 wrote:
......... and the newer 98-01's are similar to samurai 16v 1.6's intake and exhaust patterns.

A better option might be to find a 16v swift and use 1.6 intake. That would hopefully move the thermostat and hose to the front. I'd need to do other researchas well. I assume, but don't know that the 16v use the same motor mounts and will bolt up to the same transmission. For now I'm having fun playing with the 8vs. Plus I'm sure I'll have to smog test someday, and it might be a lot hard to sneak the 16v by the visual.

Author:  t3 ragtop [ Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 94 T-Belt question

Bad Goat wrote:
T3 ragtop, do have any neat cam sensors you've done?


i only developed a cam angle sensor for my modified turbo3 engines. several tricks i used were embedding a small cylindrical magnet into an indexed tooth of an aftermarket aluminum adjustable cam gear that could be read by a positional hall effect sensor.

that works if you are building an engine management controller but it would be impractical for the engines you are talking about. they have distributors that both read the cam angle to fire the coil and direct the high frequency spark to the correct plug.

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