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g13A or g13BB for samurai
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=63082
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Author:  Bad Goat [ Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  g13A or g13BB for samurai

I've been playing with a G13a and Megasquirt in a Samurai. But the motor has developed a head gasket leak, and the compression is only about 150 on the other three cylinders. I need to decide if i want to stick with this motor i or go shopping of a G13BB. I know the g13bb has more HP stock, but there are a lot more parts around for the g13a. Way more performance parts around for the g13a. I'm looking for power under 5,000 RPMS.

I'd love to hear some input!

Author:  suprf1y [ Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

What parts are available for the A that aren't for the BB, performance or otherwise, and how many of them do you need to bring the A power up to BB spec?

I would go bb because it makes more power (and more is available easily), is more modern and more current

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=48005

Author:  t3 ragtop [ Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

the g13bb is the most desirable mill for reasons related to ms control. it has all the timing bits for full sequential injection and cop/ cnp multi-channel ignition.

most of the aftermarket parts required to swap a g13b or ba to a samurai are related to mounting, induction, or exhaust. you have the mounts. the modern throttle body is better than the best aftermarket induction set for the g13ba. and the exhaust manifold for the g13bb is easy to modify for the samurai exhaust's system so it wouldn't necessarily require a new exhaust manifold.

considering that your gearing would benefit more from low end torque, the g13bb could be tuned most appropriately. :wink:

Author:  Bad Goat [ Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

suprf1y wrote:
What parts are available for the A that aren't for the BB, performance or otherwise, and how many of them do you need to bring the A power up to BB spec?

I would go bb because it makes more power (and more is available easily), is more modern and more current

http://teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=48005


Great link. I didn't know 3tech sold cams for the g13bb. I'll to check in to see what if does a grind suitable for my application.

The biggest two factors i thought the g13A had was availability of high compression pistons, and 26cc more. I thought that would probably give below 3k power advantage to 8v motor.

However The link you posted talks about possibly using GT pistons for high compression in the BB, but googling a couple vendors and looking at GT pistons on rock auto i've only found 9.5 to 1.

Author:  Bad Goat [ Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

t3 ragtop wrote:
the g13bb is the most desirable mill for reasons related to ms control. it has all the timing bits for full sequential injection and cop/ cnp multi-channel ignition.

most of the aftermarket parts required to swap a g13b or ba to a samurai are related to mounting, induction, or exhaust. you have the mounts. the modern throttle body is better than the best aftermarket induction set for the g13ba. and the exhaust manifold for the g13bb is easy to modify for the samurai exhaust's system so it wouldn't necessarily require a new exhaust manifold.

considering that your gearing would benefit more from low end torque, the g13bb could be tuned most appropriately. :wink:


I actually have g13bb trigger wheel installed on my g13a, and its working well. Not installed, but I think i have a cam sensor figured out and i have LS1 coil packs on hand. However, Not really sure how or if i would ever get to sequential.

If I go with the G13bb i'll buy g16 intake manifold and header. That would get me the 45mm throttle body talked about in the link from suprf1y. I just need to find out about the high compression pistons and cam.

Author:  suprf1y [ Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

I missed the MS part. T3 is right about that.

I calculated the GT piston compression ratio for the BB, but I can't recall what it was. It was over 10-1 though, and you also have the D16 piston option viewtopic.php?f=16&t=61095 which can give you 1mm more bore, 1334 cc, and any compression ratio you want. I have a set in stock.

The cam mentioned in that thread is an excellent torquer type cam.

Author:  Bad Goat [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

suprf1y wrote:
I missed the MS part. T3 is right about that.

I calculated the GT piston compression ratio for the BB, but I can't recall what it was. It was over 10-1 though, and you also have the D16 piston option http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=61095 which can give you 1mm more bore, 1334 cc, and any compression ratio you want. I have a set in stock.

The cam mentioned in that thread is an excellent torquer type cam.


It looks like the g13BB is probably the better choice. From reading your old post i think you calculated the compression for the GT pistons at 10.6-1. Are you saying you sell the GT or the D16 pistons?

I'll sit down after the kids go to bed tonight and try and list all the parts i need and unknown/possible issues. I need to make sure I wont need to spend a lot of time looking for hard to find parts, or fabricating a bunch of one offs. I'm a lot more limited on free time than funds.

Author:  suprf1y [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

I sell the modded D16's at any compression ratio you want down to flat top

Author:  Bad Goat [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

Anyone know If I could use the b13bb head on the g13a, 1324cc, block? I'm pretty sure everything would bolt together. I think the issues would be if dished pistons would clear the valves, and if the combustion chambers where similar in size from the 8v to 16v heads.

Author:  suprf1y [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

Shouldn't be a problem and I can't imagine valve clearance would be an issue, especially with dished pistons. Low compression might be though.

Author:  Bad Goat [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

suprf1y wrote:
Shouldn't be a problem and I can't imagine valve clearance would be an issue, especially with dished pistons. Low compression might be though.


Does the g13bb have cylinder head have more volume than the g13a and g13ba? I like the idea of the slightly longer stroke, but if it causes the 8.9 compression to drop even more. its probably not worth it.

Correct me if i'm wrong.... the g13ba pistons(flat top) are set up for 8v, the reliefs are in the wrong spot and will hit. And since the samurai uses pressed fit pistons those are my only two choices are dished or 8v flat tops.

Author:  Bad Goat [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

I'm Pretty sure I know the answerbut I'll ask any way.

Should i get the engine running before installing a new cam? I have a lot interest in a superf1y cam, but i've been told you need to break a cam in specific way. I'm not sure i should be experimenting with mega squirt on new shiny cam.

Author:  Bad Goat [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

.
Side note i started a thread to document my g13bb swap on zuwharrie and someone recommended a post from superf1y over here:
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=135207.new#new

Author:  suprf1y [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

You can do the cam before or after. There's no break in required in this application

Author:  Bad Goat [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: g13A or g13BB for samurai

suprf1y wrote:
You can do the cam before or after. There's no break in required in this application


I sent you an email about the cam.

I took the head off today hoping to get away with resealing the engine add dropping it in. However i found issues on cylinder #2. A valve is missing a chunk, and there is some rust on the cylinder bore. I had hopped to do my megasquirt tuning/experimenting on broken in motor.

I need to decide if i want to get another motor or rebuild and risk not breaking the new one in correctly. Any input?

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