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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
Not many people know me here, but I will do just about anything to a car without any regrets.
I have a 1998 kia sephia(I am a kia person and own 3 kias currently)
It has a 1.8l DOHC 127hp at crank.
I know everthing about this motor and they are very easy to maintain/fix.
This car is currently has a weight reduction of 361 lbs(gutted. . .alot), but I don't want/need it anymore and my 1991 metro convertible needs a rebuild because the head gasket went and I overheated the engine(put a new head gasket, but running on low compression and getting 30MPG) I rebuilt if once and rather not do it again.
I am getting a house with 3 garages and I want to swap the motor/trans/complete wiring into the metro.
I am going to use half of the sephia axle and half of the metro.(welded together with a sleeve) I am going to use all stock metro suspension/hubs/pedals/steering ect.
Mounting the motor shouldn't be that hard(hopefully), I have a mig and an arc welder and can fabricate mouting spots using the factory kia mounts.
I am not concerend if I need to cut the metro frame for fitment purposes.
I am also not concerned with wiring because I am swapping the whole harness and I can figure out the little things later on(signals/lights ect), but I am concerned with the fuel pump that is in the metro.
Will the stock fuel pump be sufficeint? If not I can always go the fuel cell/external(in-line) fuel pump.

I am suppose to be closing on my house today and this project will start as soon as I move in.
I will also post a pic of my metro when I can get on my computer(just painted it saturday red/orange color)

Image


Last edited by IIDeaDEyEII on Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:21 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:06 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
wait so you are doing some crazy kia engine swap and you want info from us??

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
My question was about the stock metro fuel pump being able to handle the fuel requirements of a 1.8l engine.


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:38 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
um... maybe, you didnt tell us how big the injectors are

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:10 pm 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:29 pm
Posts: 209
Location: Toronto, Ontario
it should be fine. otherwise swap in a GT pump and you will have no problems.

which T8D is it? the later returnless fuel system one will require that you mount a fuel pressure regulator somewhere.

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www.mtmotorsport.ca


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
I can make it return with the sephia fuel-rail it is easy, T8D being the sephia motor. And whats up sportage : ) you know me from streetkiaz.com keeping this on the low-down.


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
4 170cc injectors


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:18 pm 
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Bozo the crying clown

Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:29 pm
Posts: 209
Location: Toronto, Ontario
the stock metro pump will probably keep up just fine.

;) i wont tell anyone.

not that too many people on SK know the difference between their arse and a hole in the ground tho...

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Matt
Megasquirt Specialist.

www.mtmotorsport.ca


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:16 am
Posts: 8033
Location: Ontario, Canada
The stock metro pump is a low pressure pump that will only make about 35psi at deadhead.
With any amount of flow, pressure drops to somewhere in the 15-20 range, unregulated.

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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:28 am 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
sportage4x4 wrote:
the stock metro pump will probably keep up just fine.

;) i wont tell anyone.

not that too many people on SK know the difference between their arse and a hole in the ground tho...

Image wtf is that about?

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
SK is streetkiaz.com a website for kiaz. I also have my arc welder(which will be only to weld axles) I just purchased a mig welder and will start the gutting process soon. I will make sure to take pictures. Motor/tranny/wiring is coming out of the kia first(so I can junk the body) then the metro will be shortly after. Should take me a half day to gut the kia(no interior currently) and a full day for the metro


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 1047
Location: Canby, OR
WHAT!?!?! :shock:

Do NOT weld axles... they are heat treated and even with proper heat up and cool down proceedures they will be sooo brittle in the HAZ that I wouldn't trust them as a shovel handle!!! An axle shaft is probably a 600 burnell, and welding it would drop it to around 200! Torsional stresses are hell on axles to start with, absolutely no place for a welded union to be.....

If anything, see about getting custom shafts made ($$$) or shorten and respline the Kia shafts (if you can, and still $$).

BTW, I don't know much about Kiaz, but I'm pretty sure the correct spelling would be "Kia's" =)

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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
I was going to weld and then put a sleave over them and then weld that together(not just butt-end weld)If possible I could weld and sleave then bolt through and weld the bolts? I would trust my arc weld as long as it is sleaved? Let me know if the sleave is a good idea(not really good but sufficient.)


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 1047
Location: Canby, OR
The problem is that even with the collar, you will be introducing huuuuge heat into a heat treated part, basically annealing it. (Lowering the resistance to twist, and ultimately leading to breakage) Axle shafts are made out of pretty high end metal (high carbon content) that is brittle but there is still a certain amount of "twist" or elastic deformation that the shaft experiences (and is desighned into it) every time you let off the throttle or get on the throttle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deformation

The likely hood of cracks even with a bolted collar is extremely high due to the forces and axle shaft sees, and I would only consider this as a stop gap fix to get you home- not ever as something that should be driven on or relied upon. BAD things can and will happen when a shaft lets go at speed- not worth gambling with.

You should either cut and respline, or get custom shafts made. Google it- lots of places do it but it isn't cheap. Thats why most people stick with more standard engine swaps. The axles ARE the expensive part of custom swaps like what you are talking about.

Otherwise- at least you are on the other coast from me and I won't have to worry about a shaft letting go, locking a tire up and you coming across the centerline at me! :-P

Edit- I added a drawing of what I am talking about- Nevermind, didn't upload. Hopefully text is clear enough-

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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
http://www.v8miata.homestead.com/buildup.html

Scroll down to where they welded the axles. This is what I was thinking of doing.


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 7:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
??


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 1047
Location: Canby, OR
I wouldn't do that to anything that I was going to drive.... Sketchy. I ran what you are planning by the metalurgest at work, and he almost spit his coffee out! Just because a guy has done it on a el cheapo budget build doesn't make it right-

When in doubt, look to see what industry standards are.

IMO, when I don't know something for sure, I look to see what companies(ie large engineering budgets and more time in r&d than I have been alive) do to solve the same problem. NO axle manufacturer would do this. Basically, anybody with a basic understanding of materials would see that this is a no-no.

There is a reason why odd ball swaps don't get attempted often. They cost money to do right / safely when you get to this point. Call Dutchman or Moser and get their opinion on welding axles-

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Anyone who's been around children will tell you that they are in fact quite stupid. Many of them cannot even read.


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
I am aware of what can happen now, but I am still going to go the same route. I will do some extensive testing of the car before drivng on roads. I will update as progress progresses.(with pics) Donor car is parked and off the road and ready to be stripped.


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 Post subject: Re: T8D Motor Swap
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
Got home from work last night at 10:30 (after working 12 hours) and I really wanted to start on this project. Spend two hours and got the tranny/motor out of the donor car and started taking apart the wiring harness. Tonight or tomorrow I will complete the gutting of this car and then work on the metro.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
Spent another four hours taking the complete wirng harness out, and every salvagable parts(to sell)

I believe the easiest way to wire this is to use the fuse box in the engine bay and one out of the 5-6 plugs that goes from the fuse box to the ECU and the whole engine. The rest is just accesories and interior workings/lights ect. By doing this I can retain all of the wiring from the metro behind the firewall and the only wiring I need to bring in the cabin is the ECU(to keep dry/safe) and for the ignition. Here are some new pictures.

Image

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:29 am 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
holy shit, im not quite sure why you chose that motor but thats a good lookin swap so far atleast you are getting your hands dirty

_________________
1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
Replacement engines are about $200 from junkyards.
I know a lot about these motors and they are very easy to maintaine/troubleshoot.
I will start gutting the metro once I get this frame removed from my garage.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:27 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
hey man, more power to ya. but for the time and effort going into this thing, you really could have done something crazy with those fab skills.

but hey, reliability and economic ftw

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:47 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Massachusetts
Here are some updates.

Took the motor/transmission out of the metro and got the T8D lifted in there. Very tight, but managable. I had to cut both sides of the frame rail. one side for the crank pulley(only running one belt, so I may cut it in half and get the extra 1" of space off it) and on the drivers side for the upper tranny mount.

I looked over the fact that the metro has a cable clutch and the T8D has a hydraulic clutch.

I didn't take the master cylinder or the clutch assembly with the brake line from my sephia before I junked the frame, so I am thinking if I would be able to extend the clutch fork(for leverage) and hook up the cable clutch to it. I have no clue if this will work; any imput on this idea would be great. If need be, I can go to a salvage yard and get the parts I need.

I am also debating using the metro hubs or switching it over to the sephia hubs.(different bolt pattern, but still 4 lug)

Here are some pics

Image

Image

Here are some pics.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:23 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Chicago, IL
I was coming into the same issue when thinking about the 4agze to my samurai swap. I found a hydrolic clutch pedal that could be used on ebay. It's a universal type I guess for race cars, look into that. Also search over on http://www.outerlimits4x4.com in the suzuki section. They have other ways of getting around that clutch issue.


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