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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:20 am 
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Posts: 102
Location: Courtenay, B.C.
Ok lads, Ive got this thing driving around now, didnt go through with the non intercooled approach, welded three sprint coolers together, it all fits very nicely... water injection later.

So, it ran quite well the first day, great power, it just felt .... good. On the second day I pointed out to my g/f that it seemed like it had more power as I backed out of the throttle, it was mild but I could feel it. The more I drove it, the more it would do it, and more severely. Then the next day I drove it back to the shop for other repairs, half way there it starts what Im dealing with now, sputtering on load. Today I started it and drove down the road expecting all sorts of trouble but it performed well for a small drive down the block to a buddy's for a coffee. I let it run outside for about 10 minutes, went out and gave the throttle a stab and back is the popping and fartin, so much that I could barely drive back to the shop, had to use very light throttle to avoid the misfire. It almost sounds like its backfiring through the intake. My timing is at 10 degrees, and I use Husky 94. :huh: I have also noticed that if I flick the key off then on when it is happening, I will have a lil more usable throttle for a few seconds... hrm maybe fuel? Just thinkin out loud.

Now, I know its a stab in the dark, I dont even have my a/f gauge hooked up, nor the computer diagnostics light. Im not beat yet, just thought Id type it out and have a couple other heads on it so I can sleep tonight, maybe have some fresh ideas about it all b4 I go out to it again.


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intercooler.jpg
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:29 pm 
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Location: Abbotsford, BC
i cant help you with your build but the work you have done is very cool.

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2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:36 pm 
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Location: burlington,ontario
nice looking sammy, iv been tossing between the idea of doin this swap a gt swap or a 1.6 swap into my sammy but still undisided.
do you have any pics of how the front bumper was mounted?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:49 pm 
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Location: London, ON
Sounds like too much fuel. Get an A/F gauge and see what it's saying when you're having problems.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Location: Courtenay, B.C.
Thanks 1995Firefly4dr!

Geopat - the front bumper was mounted with some vertical plates that bolt onto the frame at the factory holes for the "tie downs".

CJDave - I was out there today and replaced a bunch of sensors, blindly stabbing at the problem. I revved it up and in mid pop I shut it down to have a look at the plugs. They were a nice golden brown but with white specs... uh oh... I pulled the gas cap off and listened to the pump its self. It was making a strange noise, and didnt at all sound like it was spinning the same speed all the time, almost like the motor would be spinning for a sec without the propeller(?) spinning, thus maybe not actually pumping fuel. Also, I can not hear any fuel draining back into the tank, usually I can, I think? The pump is of questionable history anyway, I pulled it out of an eagle talon, looked like it was already pulled once... so apparently the last guy tossed in a used pump, just as I did... so who knows how old it really is.

I will put another pump in and get back to yas.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:19 pm 
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Nice. Did you check compression yet? Hopefully the fuel issue didn't cause any other isues...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Hey how you fealt the change?

is not G10-t torqueless comparated with G13k?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:45 pm 
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The G10t is all about torque compared to the other unmodified G-series engines. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:44 pm 
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Location: Courtenay, B.C.
Ok, its bin a few weeks since Ive even touched the sammy, but today I dropped the tank to replace my fuel pump as it is making very strange noises.

So, lets Recap....

It starts great every time pretty much... I can drive it down the road after a couple minute warm up and it seems to run okay until I get up into about 5psi ish, the boost will still go up but the power deffinatley drops off... no missing, just less and less power. If I really try to giver, it will boost over 10 and pop real good through the intake. Now saying that, one would think timing but Ive replaced everything in my ignition with the exception of my distributor. Coils bin replaced, aswell as the ignitor, same same. If I drive much more than about 5 minutes, it really starts to stumble now, can barely keep it runnin. When its doin this, I jump out and pull the filler cap to hear the fuel pump sounding like its going through waves, up and down in pitch, almost like it sometimes isnt spinning the impeller, sounds very loose aswell. So hooray for Jeff, he used a bunk pump... figures.

So today I pulled the tank, grabbed another pump of unknown origin, looks the same, what the hell try it. I had to remodify the sidekick pump braket for the "new" pump as the intake hole at the bottom is nearly twice the size. I reinstalled the pump with just the send line and pump electrics plugged in, expecting fuel to piss out of the return line upon ignition. When I twisted the key, the pump made a good healthy sound building pressure for a second or so, then dropped down to a very low rev and started to squeal a very high pitch sound, as if the impellor was spinning on the shaft of the lil motor. I imagine the pump built the pressure alright but maybe its deadheaded because of some crap in the return line. So I started it thinking maybe there needed to be vacum at the FPR to send fuel back to the tank from the rail, it ran like shit with lots of smoke and wouldnt rev up, the whole time the pump squealin its head off, and not a damned thing outa the retun. When I took the return off with the original pump in there, there was a very small amount of fuel in this line, just drips tho. So disconnected the return at the FPR, and blew the return line back to wards the fuel rail.. all clear. Started it again to see if anything came out the FPR its self, nothing. I loosened the bolts on the FPR to see if it would weep, but nothing there either. wtf?

Ok so this motor sat around for a while, maybe something crawled into my fuel rail and clogged shit up?

Is there supposed to be fuel commin out of the return line on a MK2 G10t when idling?

Sorry for the bag of wind.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:58 am 
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Quote:
s there supposed to be fuel commin out of the return line on a MK2 G10t when idling?


You would think so.
With a high pressure pump, there should be.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:14 pm 
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Sounds like both pumps might be hosed.

Try a known good pump.

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viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42901&start=0


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Location: Courtenay, B.C.
Well I pulled the FPR and sure enough there was a clump of dirt in the end of it, holding back a few hundred spider eggs. I cleaned her out and got fuel commin back to the tank! Installed the tank, went for a test drive, and all I can say is wow.

I drove down to Sorrento just to feel it out commin back up the hill. A tow truck driver gave me a thumbs up while I was turning around to come back up the hill so I followed him, trying to keep up... all the time my buddy was behind me in his turbo diesel f350. Seemed like it was pulling pretty good (7-8 psi) and I had to let out of it a few times as to not catch the tow truck guy. The tow truck driver eventually pulled over, flashin his lights allowing me to get ahead of him and upon gettin to my buddies house, he emphatically asked "what the hell do you have in that thing!" I asked him to guess, he said "small block"... to which I replied, "yep it sure is a small - block hahaha!" When I popped the hood he was speechless and couldn't understand what he was looking at. I had to tell him it was a 3 cylinder out of a sprint. He went on and on about how his tow truck is a big block with this and that and that he couldn't believe I was over taking him with 35's on! haha sweet! Anyway, that was just classic and Im quite happy with the results now... cant wait to turn it up a bit, and maybe grab some smaller tires.. the gears seemed a lil too spaced apart.

Thanks you guys, I will post again after a few weeks of driving it around!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:49 pm 
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Location: OREGON
I am preparing for same type swap, mk1 g10t in 1988 sammy, any advise would be appreciated.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:18 pm
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Location: Levittown PA USA
how much does that critter mass out at ? I am thinking of putting a 3/5 into my plymouth voyager minivan. I towed a rather large BOAT with my 94 xfi and was surprised how well it did (shot clutch and all) leading me to think the idea (3cyl in my minivan) was not so crackpottish as I thought.

so wondering what your sammi masses out at. how important was the turbo? (I don't need power I just need to cruise at 45-50mph and not be "UNABLE" to crest hills :-) ie I want to squeeze 40mpg out of the minivan :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:40 pm 
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Location: columbus, ohio
hey nerys, i'm glad to see you over here.

it's not the 3 banger, it's the 3 banger turbo that makes it magic. the turbo is the secret weapon that makes the turbo3 a torque monster.

i've been a turbo3 proponent from the beginning of my interest in metros/ variants. once you go to the dark side you can never be happy with a plain old g10. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:40 pm 
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if it consumes mpg's I don't want it. this vehicle is not for fun but to lug my butt back and forth to work in a wee more comfort than the metro can muster.

and to be frank. I can't afford it. its going to be hard enough affording a 96+ geo metro with a usable engine tranny combo not to speak of a turbo. I do plan to upgrade the cam for more torque from 3tech since I KNOW I am going to need it :-)

if it don't hurt my mpg's and a turbo "falls in my lap" so to speak OK why not but from what I understand they are EXPENSIVE :-)

heck if I could afford it I would slap the smallest VW diesel I could find in their and have twice the power and score 50mpg. alas I can not afford EITHER end of a diesel (the initial cost or the "maintenance" costs) :-(

I wish there was a cheap available car with a DEAD SIMPLE diesel engine on the market alas there is not :-(


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:48 pm 
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Same displacement to same displacement the turbo will get better mileage. In my GT my mileage went up over 3 MPG average when I turbo'd it. Volumetric efficieancy is awesome! :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:27 am 
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my experience was that my normally aspirated g10 turned in a reliable 42 mpg. when i swapped to the turbo3, i got 50 mpg.

volumetric efficiency and more precise fuel delivery via multiport fuel injection, no doubt, accounts for the better economy. with the turbo3 churning out close to 100 hp, 50 mpg is very reasonable.

you are right, though. a turbo3 in the usa is an expensive undertaking. i was probably in around a couple grand to get one running. i paid about $600 to the machine shop while i supplied all the parts except rings to rebuild my current turbo3 which put me at around $1000 just for a fresh block for my current project. then i started throwing money at it. i passed the 3 grand mark months ago.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:43 am 
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damn. would love to have that 100hp and that 3mpg would DEFINITELY without doubt make it work well in the minivan.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:27 pm 
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Borrow a trailer and go pick this up- bring it back as "parts" and sell off the rest of the non turbo 3 components. Bet you come close to breaking even......

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=50939

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:33 pm 
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sadly right now I am about as broke as they come. I might be able to muster $300 or $400 in a week or so.

damn hate that its SOOO close (close meaning $800 is CHEAP for that) and sadly at darned near 2600 miles so 5200 mile round trip not even counting tolls and food for the 6 day round trip

I already have a dolly so no need for a trailer

but man $1400 in fuel. I figure total cost would be about $2000 if I slept in the van plus the $800 to buy the car.

so yeah but no :-) pity such a good deal !!! even best case scenario he says he can bring to montana for $200 even if he could bring it all the way to the eastern border of montana still looking at 3800 miles round trip. Ouch. Just ouch.


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