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 Post subject: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Mississippi USA
I have a 1996 LSI 1.3 that the auto tranny went out. I couldn't find an affordable replacement and no one wanted to work on it. I found a 2001 Metro with a bent rod for $200. The 01 was too good to take the tranny out for the 96. We pulled the 96 1.3 lower end and changed the pistons to the 16v and the rods to fit the larger wrist pins. We put the engine together. The car ran perfect. Ran it to the gas station and back the the cam locked up. We pulled the cam out and spun the engine over and I have no oil to the cam. There was a little debri in the journal. I double checked the part # and I used the right head gasket. Any ideas why I'm not getting oil to the cam?
Fastmax


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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
whoa... what... no oil to the head would have caused some bad things, how do you know the cam locked up? I would imagine it would be making some bad noises when you first started it up and drove it if you truley had no oil in the head (assuming whatever happened, didnt just spontaneously happen...)

but honestly im not sure, im sorry.

but can you clarify on what you did? you took your 96 block, put the 01 pistons in it (hone the block? new rings?), which rods did you use? not the 01's im guessing, since one was bent. but if the 01 pistons have a different sized wrist pin than the 96, you couldnt have used the 96 rods... (ARE the wrist pins different between them??)
and you are using the 01 head?

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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 725
Location: Winnipeg
Although i don't have parts in front of me to confirm...I suspect that installing the head gasket upside-down would block the oil feed hole to the head causing exactly what you describe...find a new head!


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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:27 am 
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Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 9:56 pm
Posts: 1146
Location: Saint-Jérôme, Qc
someone I know installed the oil check valve upside down. it was making a weird ticking noise but it ran fine, he even took it for a road test. the head was still fine after 4 or 5 minutes of running dry. he took the head off after I took the valve cover out and no oil was going up. this engine still runs fine today.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:28 am 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
Mr.Pipe wrote:
Although i don't have parts in front of me to confirm...I suspect that installing the head gasket upside-down would block the oil feed hole to the head causing exactly what you describe...find a new head!

its possible, but do you think the installer wouldnt notice something like that? I know I always check the holes on a headgasket to make sure theres something underneith.

hope the head is ok... it may need to be replaced, the journal for the cam is probably all heat scored, and the lobes/lifter faces might be scarred/pitted

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Mississippi USA
Start over. I had a good running 96 1.3 but the transmission went out. While looking for a tranny I found a 2001 with a good trans but bad motor (broken rod). The original idea was to drop the 8 valve motor in complete and mount the 96 computer. After looking at the obvious difference and the exhaust manifold, we decided to use the bottom end of the 8 valve motor using the 16 valve head. No where did I find that the wrist pins were different sizes in the rods between the 8v and 16v pistons. So I acquired another rod and rebuilt the lower end of the 96 using the new 16v pistons. Everything was going well. The engine turned over, the oil light went out, we put the coil wire on and it ran perfectly. We drove it down the road watching for temperature or oil light problems and everything was fine. Pulling back up to the garage it died. It turned over like a bad battery. We pushed it up to the garage and hooked up the battery charger. It turned over twice and then broke the cam gear bolt off in the cam. After tearing it all back down and taking the cam out, we turned the engine over with the starter. The oil light went out but there was no oil coming up into the cam journals. The number 1 cam journal is scored, but everything else looks good. There were no noises until the cam gear sheared off. You could not turn the cam at all and it was seized. I looked at again just now and the cam is not damaged on the other journals even though there is no oil coming up.

?????

Thanks,
Fastmax


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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:18 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
pull the head

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 9:56 pm
Posts: 1146
Location: Saint-Jérôme, Qc
your question is why you got no oil? either that valve I was talking about is upside down, either you got the head gasket upside down or the wrong head gasket. you need to pull the head

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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Mississippi USA
I guess it's unanamous. Time to pull the head.
Thanks,
Fastmax


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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:35 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Mississippi USA
I ordered a single head gasket because I knew I had to pull the head. When I got the head off and compared the gasket there was no hole for the oil galley. The individaual gasket had the proper hole. Has anyone had a problem with Fel Pro gasket sets having the wrong head gasket in them?
Fastmax


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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 9:56 pm
Posts: 1146
Location: Saint-Jérôme, Qc
I had the felpro gasket before without any problems. In fact it was still intact after 2½ years and I could almost reuse it :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Fastmax wrote:
I ordered a single head gasket because I knew I had to pull the head. When I got the head off and compared the gasket there was no hole for the oil galley. The individaual gasket had the proper hole. Has anyone had a problem with Fel Pro gasket sets having the wrong head gasket in them?
Fastmax

Too bad you didn't take a picture.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1408
Location: Alberta, Canada
What a disaster. That will be something to watch for. Sorry to hear about the fate of your cylinder head. So is there two fel pro 1.3 gaskets then, or did you just get a faulty one?

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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:16 am
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Location: Ontario, Canada
turbohull wrote:
I had the felpro gasket before without any problems. In fact it was still intact after 2½ years and I could almost reuse it :lol:


I have reused Felpro head gaskets before. Sometimes 3, or 4 times.

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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Mississippi USA
According to the Fel Pro rep that I talked to they did have a manufacture defect with a small # of head sets produced in 03/06. Most of them had been caught. I mailed them the paper from the box and received a refund on the head set, the replacement head gasket and $120 labor. Ok. I was able to clean the head up and polished the cam and cleaned up the #1 journal.

Before you groan and gasp, you have to realize that this is not by anymeans a side project. It had to be back together do or die quickly. It had already been decided that a salvage motor might be a way to go for $400. I had to try to save what I had in place. I have put 680 miles on the car in two weeks. The oil pressure was decent through the cam journals and it runs quietly. Engine temp runs a little higher than normal, just a hair over half way, maybe 5/8 up the scale but it never gets any higher. Changed the thermostat and nothing changed. I have run it mostly in town and a little on the highway. Without any trying it looks to be getting 42mpg.

It may last days, weeks or years we will have to watch. Oil change tomorrow. I will open the filter and let you know what I find.

Remember that while this car is excellent looking we are trying to keep the total investment below $500.
Car cost $200
Rotating assembly from 96 $0
Gaskets, piston set, rod misc. after Fel Pro reimbursment $280

Getting 42mpg driving the Metro or getting 15mpg driving the Ram pickup at 125 miles + a day. It's paying for itself.
Fastmax


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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Mississippi USA
My old Metro that puked the tranny.
Fastmax


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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:01 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Mississippi USA
This is the 'vert that I picked up as a bandaid until I could get the '01 running.
Fastmax


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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11675
Location: columbus, ohio
nice "bandaid!" =)

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 Post subject: Re: Cam siezed?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:49 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Mississippi USA
I have put close to 4k miles on the '01. It has developed some top end clatter.... duh but still runs good. It has never gotten as good a mileage as the motor did in the 96 but considering I guess we will deal with it. It is averaging about 30 or so. It has developed some oil consumption issues not bad but it smokes for the first few seconds that it is started, most likely the valve stem seals. The tranny shifts a little hard from 1st to 2nd but it is holding up. Anything over 60mph sounds like I am over revving the engine, so I keep it off of the interstate as much as possible. I gave the 'vert to my 20yr old daughter. It needed to be driven by a blonde female anyway.
Thanks,
Fastmax


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