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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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 Post subject: 1993 turbo metro swap
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:41 am 
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Location: langley
Figured I would start a thread, I don't really have any picutes when I got the car but this is what it looks like at this point.
Image

Currently the car is a g10 5sp, I wil be swapping in a g10t/5sp
the engine in the car is pretty worn out and burns a lot of oil, I came across a good deal on a projected t3 that a guy had pulled partially apart and then had to move out of province, got the motor pulled out today

Image
Image



I have already swapped the brakes from a 4 cyl swift and put on 13"s, I will try and take a few pics durring the swap to help others out in the future. It seems pretty straight forward.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:48 pm 
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Got the motor out of the car last weekend, hopefully get it installed this weekend.


had a bit of free time during the week so put the hood and front bumper on. Sprint hood lines up perfect to metro lights. I haven't decided if I want to switch the headlights or not yet, The car will be going orange when it's done, I think the black buckets might look better.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:00 am 
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Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
looks good

couple of (hopefully helpful) things about the swap

if you're keeping the mk3 dash, you'll have run wiring for the foglights (you can get a switch from a gt) they have the fog/rear defrost
you'll need the turbo fuelpump or a gt/mk5 fuelpump
the wiring should be pretty straightforward, basically match up the colours. may be easier to repalce the front harness for the turbo harness as it has the igniter on it and i can't remember what else there was that was different. the charcoal canister is also different on the turbo car.
you can get a tach cluster (vert or gt) for the mk3, it does have a turbo light, just have to scratch the leads clean on the back and run a wire (i used the DaytimeRunningLights wire (gray/black if i remember so i didn't have to run a extra wire to the cluster) turbo wire is light blue.

can't remember anything else off the top of my head.

richard, care to add anything? :mrgreen:

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93 Swift GT White 3Tech cams, Sandro's chip, Lightned flywheel, Genie exhaust, Cultus header, Intrax springs.
08 Civic Wife's car


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:32 am 
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Location: langley
crnolic wrote:
looks good

couple of (hopefully helpful) things about the swap

if you're keeping the mk3 dash, you'll have run wiring for the foglights (you can get a switch from a gt) they have the fog/rear defrost
you'll need the turbo fuelpump or a gt/mk5 fuelpump
the wiring should be pretty straightforward, basically match up the colours. may be easier to repalce the front harness for the turbo harness as it has the igniter on it and i can't remember what else there was that was different. the charcoal canister is also different on the turbo car.
you can get a tach cluster (vert or gt) for the mk3, it does have a turbo light, just have to scratch the leads clean on the back and run a wire (i used the DaytimeRunningLights wire (gray/black if i remember so i didn't have to run a extra wire to the cluster) turbo wire is light blue.

can't remember anything else off the top of my head.

richard, care to add anything? :mrgreen:

Thank you, I have the ignitor from the turbo car, from what I can tell in the wiring diagrams I basically just tie it into the coil wires and into the engine harness. I also did pull the charcoal canister, but didnt know it was different, so that helps. I found a tach cluster on a mk4 I parted a while ago, so I have that in my car now, I will look into the turbo light, that i didn't even think to look at!. oh y and I did grab the fuel pump too. Debating to relocate my filter or change the current one while the tank is down. I was unaware the mk5 and gt pumps were the same, will come in handy if this one packs it in.

I have read I need to use the coil from a trubo car, when I went to take the nut of the stud it just broke because it was too corroded, will my mk3 coil work or do I need to buy an aftermarket one now? worst I can see is not enough spark at higher rpm's, if I can I will leave it for now and wait till I come across a deal on one.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:57 am 
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Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
the mk5 and gt are not the same pump but either work well for the turbo3.

as far as i remember when i did the swap the coil was identical, i'll try and get the part number off the coil itself next time i'm at my buddys shop.

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93 Swift GT White 3Tech cams, Sandro's chip, Lightned flywheel, Genie exhaust, Cultus header, Intrax springs.
08 Civic Wife's car


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:52 pm 
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amer, you pretty much nailed it. that stuff is probably still fairly fresh in your mind bacause you just did the conversion on that sweet red vert. :wink:

the turbo3 has it's own specific part number for the coil but there are some other things that lead me to believe that a later model coil, the air core type that the second half production 94/ 95 cars used, would work just fine. suzuki did things like that, the 89 turbo3 used the same distributor ahead of the 92 mk3 n/a g10, the turbo3 advanced technology being used to enhance the base model cars years after the turbo3 was out of production.

the tach cluster will need to have a 3 cylinder calibration. the tach cluster from a 92/ 93 vert would be a drop in replacement.

the new ignition circuit will get key switched power from the connector to the original coil and use that on the turbo3 coil and it's ignitor. the ground for the new circuit must be developed using the original coil's ground with care taken to be sure the noise suppressor is in the ground path.

i like to see people getting the turbo3 stuff running. :D

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, WA
why didnt you just put the body panels on the red one? would have been a bit less work

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:44 pm 
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Location: langley
VR4 wrote:
why didnt you just put the body panels on the red one? would have been a bit less work


haha I should have taken pics of where the floor boards were suppose to go..... the car was completely rotted, it had been running up and down the coquihalla (bc to Edmonton) so saw a lot of salt...

my car has rusty rockers, but the rest is good.

t3 ragtop wrote:
amer, you pretty much nailed it. that stuff is probably still fairly fresh in your mind bacause you just did the conversion on that sweet red vert. :wink:

the turbo3 has it's own specific part number for the coil but there are some other things that lead me to believe that a later model coil, the air core type that the second half production 94/ 95 cars used, would work just fine. suzuki did things like that, the 89 turbo3 used the same distributor ahead of the 92 mk3 n/a g10, the turbo3 advanced technology being used to enhance the base model cars years after the turbo3 was out of production.

the tach cluster will need to have a 3 cylinder calibration. the tach cluster from a 92/ 93 vert would be a drop in replacement.

the new ignition circuit will get key switched power from the connector to the original coil and use that on the turbo3 coil and it's ignitor. the ground for the new circuit must be developed using the original coil's ground with care taken to be sure the noise suppressor is in the ground path.

i like to see people getting the turbo3 stuff running. :D


It came out of a 3 cyl car, pretty sure the gauge is accurate, idle is around 900.

maybe I will solder on a spade connecter terminal to the broken stud and use the turbo coil to be safe. I have the newer different looking coil. this is the coil I have...
Image

The noise suppressor in the original harness should be sufficient, shouldn't it? or should I be swapping that as well?

crnolic wrote:
the mk5 and gt are not the same pump but either work well for the turbo3.

as far as i remember when i did the swap the coil was identical, i'll try and get the part number off the coil itself next time i'm at my buddys shop.


I have both currently, don't worry about a part number. the blue cap one is from a turbo3, and that is what the turbo car had, the pic above is the style coil I have.




tomorrow is the day I start the swap! :D I've always wanted a turbo3 but everyone around here wants too much for them!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Location: langley
I will update some pics when I get home. But its running good :) I kept the OEM coil that was in my car for now

Must say, it sure is nice being able to accelerate up hills now! I have a cheap low pressure gauge hooked onto the boost gauge line the previous owner put on(going to order a proper boost gauge, just what I had) and I boost to about 6 psi, is that normal? I will also install a ball and spring boost controller with the boost gauge

Image

Image

I still need to buy some loom to clean it up a bit, but it turned out pretty good.

I didn't realize the axle shafts were different for the turbo transmission. the splined section on mine wouldn't slide in so I held them next to each other and sure enough, they are not the same... good thing I had both :)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:32 pm 
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i've never noticed any difference on the inner splines of the axles and have used oem 3 banger axles on my turbo3 projects.

correct that the blue top coil is the one for the stock turbo3. the air core coil that you have in there now will probably work fine. suzuki used that same coil in the gt and it had a pretty hot ignition system.

on the boost, the turbo3 ran 7.5 psi from the factory. you may have a weak waste gate actuator or a bent rod on the actuator. you may also have a stopped up pre-cat in the cast iron down pipe from the turbo, a stopped up catalytic converter, muffler issues, etc. i've built several turbo3 projects that would make over 8 pounds of boost by just gutting the pre-cat and building a new 2 inch or larger exhaust system.

be careful with a boost controller on the stock ihi rhb32 turbo. the temptation to wind the boost controller up and over boost the system is the dark side. :twisted: the little turbo has come unglued on me a bunch of times. replacements are a bitch to find and require a double fisted throw down of cash when you do find them.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:50 am 
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Location: langley
t3 ragtop wrote:
i've never noticed any difference on the inner splines of the axles and have used oem 3 banger axles on my turbo3 projects.

correct that the blue top coil is the one for the stock turbo3. the air core coil that you have in there now will probably work fine. suzuki used that same coil in the gt and it had a pretty hot ignition system.

on the boost, the turbo3 ran 7.5 psi from the factory. you may have a weak waste gate actuator or a bent rod on the actuator. you may also have a stopped up pre-cat in the cast iron down pipe from the turbo, a stopped up catalytic converter, muffler issues, etc. i've built several turbo3 projects that would make over 8 pounds of boost by just gutting the pre-cat and building a new 2 inch or larger exhaust system.

be careful with a boost controller on the stock ihi rhb32 turbo. the temptation to wind the boost controller up and over boost the system is the dark side. :twisted: the little turbo has come unglued on me a bunch of times. replacements are a bitch to find and require a double fisted throw down of cash when you do find them.


thanks for the heads up, the bolts to the manifold precat are very rusted and I was kind of scared to undo them(even with a torch) so I didn't gut it, maybe I will still have to do that... Eventually I will redo my exhaust...

when I do install the boost controller, I would run it around 9psi.

fired up first try, and tan great, buttoned everything up and it bogged down whenever I tried to use the throttle, changed fuel pumps and relocated fuel filter(was going to do that the following day) and it still was acting the same. After thinking about it for a while, I made the mistake of using a bit of grease to get the fuel lines on and probably got a bit in the line which clogged the injectors, runs great now!

about the axle shafts, the ones I had in my car have grooves for the oil seals to suck the fluid back in, and almost seemed bigger then the ones for the t3 tranny, I couldn't get them lined up for the life of me, the t3 ones slid right in. next time I have them out I will take a side by side comparison. Its also possible I just for whatever reason imagined the difference and mine just has a really stiff clip.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:29 pm 
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the axles with the grooves are later model, 95+ parts if they are, indeed, suzuki variant axles. really, there's no problems with axle fitment with the transmissions across the model range. gt twincam, sohc 8v, g10 - all the various axles fit all the manual transmissions.

maybe you have axles from an automatic car.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:48 pm 
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Location: langley
[quote="t3 ragtop"]the axles with the grooves are later model, 95+ parts if they are, indeed, suzuki variant axles. really, there's no problems with axle fitment with the transmissions across the model range. gt twincam, sohc 8v, g10 - all the various axles fit all the manual transmissions.

maybe you have axles from an automatic car.[/quote]

Haha looking at the 2 I didn't use, one has the grooves, the other doesn't. The grooved one has a nick in the front spline section so it probably was just too tight, thinking back it didn't come out easily either.

I did the swap start to finish in a day so I was pretty beat in the final put back together stage. I didn't try that hard to put it in, most likely my eyes playing tricks on me because I assumed they would be different because of the groo ed section. At least I know I have two good spares


Last edited by chevy69chevelle on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:07 pm 
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that's a job of work to do the swap in one day. :wink:

from the pic above that shows the coil, the component with the finned heatsink, white wires, and yellow cylindrical connector is a vestigial part of the normally aspirated g10. it's function is that of a big resistor used for impedance matching the throttle body mounted injector for the normally aspirated engine. you can remove that from the firewall, unplug it from the yellow connector, and toss it in the box with the other junk from the swap. :lol:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:25 pm 
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Location: langley
t3 ragtop wrote:
that's a job of work to do the swap in one day. :wink:

from the pic above that shows the coil, the component with the finned heatsink, white wires, and yellow cylindrical connector is a vestigial part of the normally aspirated g10. it's function is that of a big resistor used for impedance matching the throttle body mounted injector for the normally aspirated engine. you can remove that from the firewall, unplug it from the yellow connector, and toss it in the box with the other junk from the swap. :lol:


Perfect :D I like less junk under my hood.

I just gutted the pre at and still 6psi and spikes to 9 when I let go of pedal. The previous owner told me he was running 9psi boost on his gauge. Is it possible something happened while sitting for a year and a half, my 15psi air gauge is that far off, or the p.o. is full of crap?

It had a high idle when I got it and I turned it down via the screw on the throttle body. Is it possible a vacuum leak could be part of my problem? I replaced most of the vac hoses


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:25 pm 
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So I had a little more time today, now with a proper boost gauge my boost is reading just over 7psi. Here are a few more specific pictures to help anyone who might do a mk2 g10t swap into a mk3

The radiator is bigger on a T3(maybe 4cyl's too?), point being, I didn't know the lower mount was different for the smaller rad and the bigger one, so I didn't take it off the donor car before it got crushed making the rad very sloppy, don't forget that part!(I found one now and it's all better)

Image



The plugs for the mk3 and mk2 by the battery are different, so you will need to cut the plug off the engine harness of both and solder on the plug from your m3 n/a harness the orange and yellow wire on your engine harness that were connected to the mk2 plug won't match up to the mk3 plug, leave them unhooked from the mk3 plug, they go to your ignitor

I don't have a picture of the plug under your steering colum, but that one needs to be changed as well, it's a green one.
Image



The box on the right side, t3ragtop informed me was a resistor for the n/a throttle body on a n/a g10, it can be unplugge and removed
Image


I would recomment using the coil off the g10t as it delivers a stronger spark, but the one from my donar car was no good so I am using the oem one for the time being, but to Install the ignitor you connect two wires in with the coil wires and the yellow and orang wire run to the engine harness(I didn't solder them because I will be pulling a plug in line, and yes I forgot to shrink the heat shrink butt connectors)
Image
Image

For the throttle cable, I also did not know it was different and forgot to grab that off my donar car as well, so i made do with what I had and this is what I ended up with
Image



I installed my boost gauge on this port, it allows for vacuum and boost pressure. the empty one beside it only allowed for boost
Image


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:54 pm 
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all correct. :wink:

i ran the turbo3 on the regular geo metro radiator for 3 years without any problems overheating. radiated heat from the turbo melted/ warped a small bit of the plastic fan shroud but nothing that you'd easily notice.

isn't the turbo3 a nice piece of work? :D

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:56 am 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
all correct. :wink:

i ran the turbo3 on the regular geo metro radiator for 3 years without any problems overheating. radiated heat from the turbo melted/ warped a small bit of the plastic fan shroud but nothing that you'd easily notice.

isn't the turbo3 a nice piece of work? :D

:D i love it, I think I'm hooked now, I am going to attempt to build a new manifold and try and track down a rhf4, my turbo has minor shaft play and is internally leaking oil. then i will rebuild my spare motor with vitara pistons i guess(seems to be the best option? read a lot of threads and hard to decifer what works best for mk2's, is that my best option for oversized pistons?), and send my head to mike :D?

my current motor is 147-150 all 3 cylinders,


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