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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:00 am 
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Well, this won't be too in depth, but I wanted to put some questions that everyone seemed to have to rest. Your basic tachometer will only have three or four wires: power, ground, light, and signal. For the first two, just make sure the tach has a good power connection to the battery (from wires flowing current or the positive terminal itself) and a solid ground on the chassis. As for the light and signal wires, here's what I did. The book didn't seem to be too much help (as usually goes with mutiple year model books), so I had the use of a test light. I also just used some of your basic connectors and a set of crimpers. Take a look:

For the light, I just used the power wire of the plug located on the back of the intrument cluster, furthest right. This wire only has juice when the parking lights are turned on.

Image

Here's a pic of how I spliced the tach's light wire into the power wire:

Image

Now, this is what i did for the tach signal wire. You may not be able to see in the pic, so the brown wire is pin 6 on the very top plug of the ECM (22 pin in all, I think):

Image

Like I mentioned before, this isn't exactly an in depth How To, but I hope it can help someone out. Here's my final setup:

Image

Here's the final result! (Uses RealPlayer, I think) http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetod ... ZkMzF5NTQx


Last edited by BlurComet on Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:33 am 
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spt-3x1.0 wrote:
Why in the center? You done gave up the usage of the trip odometer. With that small tach you should of placed it to either far left under fuel gauge or to far right under temp gauge & still all gauges would be viewable & you would still be able to view the trip odometer.


Because in classic hotrodding tradition, that tach always gets mounted to the top of the steering column. Obstructed instruments be damned! :wink:

BlurComet: Excellent writeup. :thumb2: Stickied + karma

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:49 am 
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Thanks Lihtan. I hope some people can get some use out of it. :)

spt, I had already thought of installing the tach (and some other gauges for my turbo project) next to the coolant temp, but don't you think you would want to know if your oil pressure gave out, or maybe if your alternator belt broke? Just turn your key to the on position and you'll see what I mean :wink: The other corner isn't so bad, with only lights for the rear defroster and Fasten Seatelt light. This is where I'm considering installing the Boost guage.


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 Post subject: Tach install
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:15 pm 
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Maybe stupid question, but can any tach be used w/ 3cyl NA motor, or do I really have to put out the cash for one that states that it will work with a 3 cyl engine? Most tachs seem to say '4,6,8 cylinder'. :?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:38 am 
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Don't know anythiong about tachs, but it looks like you said to make one work all you need is a positive and negative connection??? Unless, and I am assuming splicing into the ECM is a must, could someone confirm this for me?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:23 am 
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A tach will have 3 wires: positive, ground, and the tach signal. Positive goes an ignition switched 12 volt source, the ground to any convenient metal object, and the tach signal to the ECU. On cars with distributors, the the tach wire usually goes to the ignition coil, but due to the function of DIS (two ignition coils), it would only see half the ignition pulses, so one needs to tap into the ECU so it sees all of them.

[EDIT]
Often there's a wire for the backlight that you tie into your dash lighting circuit.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:57 am 
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Thanx for the explantion. The 99' Geo 3 banger only has 1 ignition coil so I can leave the ECU alone :D


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 Post subject: Tach? DONE
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:12 pm 
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Great resource! Needed the tach to fix the tranny!

Thank you all who posted here, w00t.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:55 pm 
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Hi, I'm new around here

I was wandering in a wrecking yard and found a 95-97 mk4 with a tach cluster so I kind of "borrowed" it in the idea of placing it in my 2000.
At first it didn't work, half the indicators would not light, the speedometer didn't work and most of all the tach didn't respond either. So I removed it and began an analysis of the two clusters, there's a slight difference between the two models in power distribution, I found out the power source is the same for all indicators and gauges on my 2000 cluster while there are two for the older model (or is it only because there is a tachometer maybe?) Anyways, I just wanted to add that instead of using the far left red/yellow wire wich is the interior light system, you could use the almost far opposite one, for instance the second on the right wich is black/white and is hot on start.

Now the power is back and everithing works fine, except the tachometer lol, I thought it would use the same wire as the older model (brown wire, eight from left on the same connector) but it seems not to work, either that wire does not have any signal or the cluster is defective.

I spent some time surfing the web in search of the wiring diagram and almost gave up but guess what, I found something wonderful at
http://swift.crime.one.pl/pliki/schematy/
these are pdf files of all wiring diagrams for the swift from 1989 to 2001

I'll try taking the signal straight from the ecs as you proposed, what bugs me is that the wire is brown and therefore it is highly probable that it's the same I was using without result.

Well, I hope I helped somebody, at least it was pleasant for me, see ya guys
-
Bob


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:53 pm 
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Yeah, I've been fighting this fight since getting my '98 brand new. I've had about five different clusters in there and none of them worked. I've finally given up and am in the process of hacking an aftermarket tach into the cluster. Almost done, I'll let you know how it turns out.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:30 pm 
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I can't seem to get it to work, it's just like no signal was sent through that brown wire from the ecm. any idea would be gladly accepted. I read somewhere the ecm compiled data sent from two sensors, could one of them be disconnected ?

Thanks, Bob


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 6:46 am 
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It's still not working, I'm considering taking the tach signal directly from the engine but it seems there are two ignition coils, can I splice the wires and joind them to avoid getting only half the signal. Could anyone be as kind as to point out exactly what two wires i'm talking about ?
Thanks, Bob


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 1:57 am 
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Bob, I have no idea as far as how to take the signal from the engine bay, but I did have the same problem with the rpm wire at one point. I hooked the tach up, worked fine, then resorted everything, and then it no longer worked. I was frustrated, and I thought that it was strange that the rpm wire was no longer sending signal, but it turned out that I had fried the tach by accidentally grounding the rpm wire from the tach while I had the power and ground hooked up. So, what I'm trying to say is, it's most definetely the tachometer. Perhaps you got one out of a car with a different engine as yours?? (i.e. 3 cylinder to 4 cylinder wouldn't work) And make sure your using the right wire (Pin 6 on the very top plug of the ECU; Brown wire).


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 Post subject: DIS factory tach
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:16 am 
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No need to play with diodes or anything to get the factory tach from a '95-'97 to work in a '98+. Ran into this problem when swapping the cylinder head, ECU, and engine harness from a '98 into a friends '96. The wiring is there, and we knew the tach worked before, so I connected a scope to the wire and saw that there was definitely a signal there. Ended up taking the cluster out, popping the tach out, and on the circut board there's a resistor that needs to be bypassed. I simply wrapped a small piece of wire around it. The resistor in question is the first one in line with the signal feed on the circut board. It's the one in the corner if I remember right. If someone can take a picture, I can say for sure.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:35 am 
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Here's a picture of the Resistor in question. If you bypass it (I used a small piece of wire wrapped around the legs of the resistor) the tach will work with the DIS.

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:38 am 
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Thanks, Dave :)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:51 pm 
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When using the signal from the ECU, will a tach designed for use with conventional or electronic ignition systems (but not DIS type ignition systems) will function properly without modification? (It does not have an option for 2 cylinder mode). I've read everything on the site involving tachs but can't find any reference to what the stock tach signal corresponds to.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:54 pm 
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Im tryin 2 fix up my 99 chevy metro, no tach. I went to the dealer to get a speedo cable they list 2 different versions, one with tach. one without. Would I need the speedo cable with tach to get this to work ?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:14 pm 
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sorry to be so repetitive- I'd really like to order that speedo cable- I would really like to know if the one listed as "with tach" will work in a car without the factory tach!!! SOMEONE's GOTTA KNOW THIS!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:21 am 
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The tachometer option means the cable is slightly longer than the non-tach option.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:44 am 
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Location: Vancouver, BC
First post,

I must have gotten lucky when I replaced my cluster. Working at an auto wrecker 8 years ago, we had a '98 Swift come in, fully loaded with enhanced cluster. I grabbed the cluster and threw it in my '97 Firefly.
In Canada we never got the G13B with Multi-port injection and non-distributor system. We got the TBI variant only with a distributor. So much easier to swap.
So the swap went pretty easy except that when I turn on the rear-window defogger, the 'door ajar' light comes on.

Also it would appear that the 'check engine' light does not function at all. The engine started bogging out and stalling recently. I couldn't see anything and out of frustration I bought an OBDII scan tool. Sure enough I got an EGR code. The EGR system was fouled and plugged up. I pulled the EGR valve off the intake and ran a brass tube brush through the ports as far as I could reach each way. I sprayed the EGR valve stem with brake cleaner, Which didn't work so well. but It cleared it up and runs fine now.

I'm wondering how many other lights don't work, as this cluster has a few more than came stock.
But Fuel, temp, speed and tach are all A-1 which was my goal.

Did the Metro or Swift G13B come with a TBI in the US market ever? If so this is the cluster you want to be looking for I would suspect.

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'85 Forsa 2 Dr. G10
'89 Swift GTi - Damn, I loved that car
'86 Sprint 4 Dr. G10
'97 Firefly 2 Dr G13B SOHC 8 TBI Auto-Trans,
Upgraded cluster with tach, Retro-fit power steering.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:04 am 
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Kyradog wrote:
First post,


In Canada we never got the G13B with Multi-port injection and non-distributor system. We got the TBI variant only with a distributor. So much easier to swap.
So the swap went pretty easy except that when I turn on the rear-window defogger, the 'door ajar' light comes on.

Did the Metro or Swift G13B come with a TBI in the US market ever? If so this is the cluster you want to be looking for I would suspect.


98 - 01 Swifts, Metros, Fireflys if they had a 1.3L had MPFI, DIS, and 16V with SOHC. *I should know, I own a 98.*

89-94 Swift GTs had a 1.3L with MPFI, Distributor, and 16V DOHC.

Your car would better be able to use a 92-97 cluster with Tach-o, since the tach for newer cars is slightly different.

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J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:35 am 
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98 - 01 Swifts, Metros, Fireflys if they had a 1.3L had MPFI, DIS, and 16V with SOHC. *I should know, I own a 98.*

89-94 Swift GTs had a 1.3L with MPFI, Distributor, and 16V DOHC.

Your car would better be able to use a 92-97 cluster with Tach-o, since the tach for newer cars is slightly different.[/quote]

Perhaps I need to clarify,...
This is a generation III firefly 1997+ *same as yours*
In Canada it was never offered with a MPFI DIS. It is a TBI injection with SOHC 8 valve and a distributor. That's why the tach works so perfectly fine.
Your years are off. Suzuki and GM screwed around with release dates for the US, Canada and Australian markets. I assure you it is a Third generation product. If you want to push me on it I'll post a picture...
If I were to try installing a 92-96 cluster it wouldn't even fit in the dash.

And I'm perfectly fine on the GTi's too! ...Bought one brand spanking new in '89 ran it for all it was worth, worked it, fixed it, worked it and reluctuntly had to sell it one day. That was a bad day.

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'85 Forsa 2 Dr. G10
'89 Swift GTi - Damn, I loved that car
'86 Sprint 4 Dr. G10
'97 Firefly 2 Dr G13B SOHC 8 TBI Auto-Trans,
Upgraded cluster with tach, Retro-fit power steering.


Last edited by Kyradog on Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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