TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:40 am

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 2:31 am
Posts: 22
Location: tucson az
Alright im going to tell a little story..
The overall purpose of this is that perhaps we can set down a clear answer of what transmissions are compatible with MK4 MK5 Metros. more specifically transmission interchanges for G10 engines in the mk4 mk5 I see many people having various tranny problems And after searching ive found nothing that is definitive..
Maybe its there and I would love to be pointed in the right direction.

Here is the story:
I bought a 1999 metro G10 5 speed hatchback from an old man who is the original owner.. he is 85ish years old... The car had a rod knocking ... loudly... and I purchased it for a total of $100. MY dad is a Geo fan and Im building this car for him. So I removed the engine/trans and swapped in a G10 that i bought from a JDM engine dealer.... The engine was most likely a pre-94 G10... Everything went well..I swapped all neccessary components to make it obd2 compliant Well the swap went quite well... and everything ran fine .. NO Service engine soon lights.. no other problems.. HOWEVER.. the transmission makes a decent amount of noise and i now seek to replace the transmission (Keep in mind this is the original 1999 Transmission mated to a pre94 block). I couldnt hear the tranny making noise when i test drove the car because the rod knocking drowned it out... I hate when that happens.. I have 2 places to contact in search of a transmission one is http://www.Makotoengines.com the other http://www.cnsautoparts.com both are "Jdm" engine/tranny suppliers... Well both places basically confirm that they have a 5 speed to suit a G10 engine that will work for pre-94 only... they dont really confirm whether it will work in my 99.. I have been told by both those places that they have a "black case" and "silver case" transmission referring to the rear cover. MY transmission looks like a normal "black cover" one even when comparing to the transmission in a 91 G10 metro that my dad currently drives..

So I am prepared to purchase a transmission from MAKOTO However I dont want to haul off and purchase one if it isnt going to work..
as far as the pre 94 G10 5 speed transmission
Im fairly confident that the input shaft is the same. as the 99
Im fully confident that the Bell housing pattern is the same as the 99 (proved by my 99 tranny bolting up to a pre-94 block)
Im fairly confident of the mounts.... being the same as my 99
i know for sure they both have the same part number for the output shaft seals.. but the cv axle part numbers are the same. so im wondering if that is because the output shaft splines and shaft sizes are different... OR whether there are other differences in the cv axles for the pre-94 and 1999 like... axle length or outer knuckle spline setup...

Has anyone got a definite answer on whether a pre 94 Metro G10 5 speed transmission will bolt directly into the 1999 and work with the axles from
the 1999.. pics are from my 99 setup.. all installed its hard to see but it looks the same as a pre 94
<img src='http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-4/1172191/ssssss.JPG'>
<img src='http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-4/1172191/drgdfty5.JPG'>
<img src='http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-4/1172191/335er.JPG'>

_________________
99 Chevrolet (in badge only) Metro
G10
Purchased for $100 good shape too! aside from rod knocking.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:15 pm
Posts: 3130
Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
Yes it will bolt on, I'm not sure about the axels, If they're both 1.0L axels it should work.
Keep in mind, the 94 metro tranny has a longer gear ratio then the 99 1.0L


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 2:31 am
Posts: 22
Location: tucson az
yes i would be using the stock normal axles that came with the 99... I should have mentioned that. What do you mean by longer ratios? do you mean its geared taller? like 3.83:1 rather than 4.10:1

_________________
99 Chevrolet (in badge only) Metro
G10
Purchased for $100 good shape too! aside from rod knocking.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:45 am
Posts: 405
Location: Palmyra,VA
There were a couple of different final drive ratios depending on year and model. Just make sure it was out of a 1.0 g10 and not the 1.3. I did this swap a few years ago but don't remember if it was a pre-94 trans. But it was definitly the old body style trans. Swap your 99 mounts on and use the 99 axles (slightly longer).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:15 pm
Posts: 3130
Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
the 94 metro tranny is 3.7 or 3.8 or something like that, and the 95+ 1.0L trannies are 4.39


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 177
Location: nd
Don't know bout 99 but I did pick up a 95 G10 powered hatch with a bad 5 spd transmission a few months back. I put a 5 spd 4.10 trans from a 92 or 93 in it no problems, used the axles/mounts out of the 95. Speedo seems right on and no check engine light yet. Only difference i noticed was clutch cable arm on trans which i reused the 95 part as well.

I'm planning on using the 4.39 that came out of the 95 for my vert swap once I get it rebuilt.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 2:31 am
Posts: 22
Location: tucson az
Right on.. that comment about the axles being a bit longer clears a lot up... im kind of Figuring its all the same but i want to make sure before some other goofy happening derails this project you know? it was a real bummer to toss that new(er) engine in there and fire it up to take it for a spin and hear that tranny making noise.... I was kind of figuring of swapping the mounts ... The pictures ive seen of the G10 5 speed pre 94 looked like the mount bolt holes were the same... That was another one of my worries was the gear ratio throwing off the VSS and causing some sort of havok... but the 99 is a cable driven VSS that i assume is mounted on the back of the instrument cluster... so i would guess it would only be a matter of changing out the driven and drive gears for the speedo.. or something to that effect??? Do you get a CEL if the speedo is off in relation to the engine speed? I dont know.. I drove this thing about a mile or so with the speedo not working. and no CEL Do these have a VSS.... I dont know im probably putting too much damn thought into that.. but so far my confidence is starting to build and im starting to feel better about getting this pre-94 tranny... If it has taller gears my dad will like it because his driving habits are very geared toward economy... he stays in gears that keep the RPM down.. this would be his 3rd metro he had a 90 that he squeezed 52-54 mpg out of so I dont think a taller gear ratio would hurt too bad.. Thanks to all for your help keep it coming. I would love to hear any and all advice about this particular swap...especially from someone having done it first hand... .. Im a bit too analytical sometimes But so far it sounds like this puppy is a go..

_________________
99 Chevrolet (in badge only) Metro
G10
Purchased for $100 good shape too! aside from rod knocking.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:42 pm
Posts: 126
Location: winona mn
I put a 93 transmission from a 3 cyl into my 2000 with a 4 cyl. I swapped out the auto that was in it. I used the axles for a 2000. The motor mounts were different on the 4cyl than the 3cyl. Other than that, no hassles.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:42 pm
Posts: 126
Location: winona mn
Flywheel and clutch would be different between 3 and 4 cyl too of course...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:45 am
Posts: 405
Location: Palmyra,VA
No VSS for the trans, only wheel speed sensors if you had an ABS car. (this doesn't matter)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 2:31 am
Posts: 22
Location: tucson az
Yeah in my particular setup im going to purchase the 5 speed for a G10... I have a 3 cyl not 4 but the remarks about the 4 cylinder engine being paired to a 3cyl tranny ... useful info.. its good to build a bit of knowledge on this subject.. I Hope others are finding this info useful. I would say That Its sounding good so far... keep em pouring. in... perhaps this thread could be built up enough that people who have any question about Engine/trans compatability in a MK4 or MK5 would have it answered here..

So far this is what Im gathering

For us MK4 and MK5ers out there..

IF you have a 3 cyl car with a bad tranny it is possible to swap in a transmission from a pre 1994 3cyl swift/metro.. Use your existing 1995+ mounts and axles just swap the tranny. Note that you may have taller gear ratios by doing this.... dont expect to be winning a lot of drag races..
A good source for these transmissions.. may be
http://WWW.MAKOTOENGINES.COM
http://WWW.CNSMOTORS.COM

Would everyone out there agree to the above statement?
IF SO.. then we got some good tech data ..


Also It looks that MK4 MK5 owners with a 1.3 can swap their auto tranny for a manual tranny...OR their bad manual for a good manual out of a pre or post 94 3cyl metro/swift..... if desired By utilizing the MT axles for the year car the swap is being done in.. IE. A 1999 Metro equipped with 1.3 and auto can take a G10 MT transmission (3cyl tranny) utilizing the correct mounts that would be for a 99 metro manual transmission and the CV axles for a 99 with manual tranny.. So you would go to the parts store and ask for the axles for a 99 metro with 3 cyl and 5 spd and the drivers side mount and rear mount for the same

Do we agree with the second statement?

This way we can make some hard facts and possibly create a transmission compatibility FAQ or something like that.

I think its in all of our best interest to get some good transmission faqs down for the MK4 MK5 because many people are sending their swift/metro to the junk yard because their mega chain auto repair facility says that they want $1500 dollars to rebuild their manual tranny.. and as those swift /metros hit the crusher.... our after market parts availability goes with it..

_________________
99 Chevrolet (in badge only) Metro
G10
Purchased for $100 good shape too! aside from rod knocking.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 725
Location: Winnipeg
3 cylinder axles must be used with the 3 cylinder engine, and four cylinder axles with a four cylinder engine...because the engine/trans location dictates using the proper axle overall length. 3 cylinders do not use the right side "stub axle, and hanger bearing"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:42 pm
Posts: 126
Location: winona mn
Quote:
Also It looks that MK4 MK5 owners with a 1.3 can swap their auto tranny for a manual tranny...OR their bad manual for a good manual out of a pre or post 94 3cyl metro/swift..... if desired By utilizing the MT axles for the year car the swap is being done in.. IE. A 1999 Metro equipped with 1.3 and auto can take a G10 MT transmission (3cyl tranny) utilizing the correct mounts that would be for a 99 metro manual transmission and the CV axles for a 99 with manual tranny.. So you would go to the parts store and ask for the axles for a 99 metro with 3 cyl and 5 spd and the drivers side mount and rear mount for the same


Yes.
I got my mounts off a used car though so that I got all the bolts and hardware and what-nots. I got the stub shaft used too. And of course the pedal box and clutch cable and shifter assy will be needed too. The shifter assy is different for a 3 cyl than a 4 cyl. The brace rod is shorter on the 3 cyl, and mounts to a different spot on the case than the longer 4 cyl brace rod. I think I gave $65 for all of it.
Then I got parts store reman axles. I can verify the manual 4 cyls ones are the same for at least 1997-2000.
It will run on the auto computer with a manual in it, but you will get a check engine light for the missing shift solenoids, and you will need to run a manual trigger wire to the starter solenoid to by pass the nuetral safety switches and missing shift solenoids.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:37 am
Posts: 1172
Location: Memphis, TN
JimboJohnson wrote:
Don't know bout 99 but I did pick up a 95 G10 powered hatch with a bad 5 spd transmission a few months back. I put a 5 spd 4.10 trans from a 92 or 93 in it no problems, used the axles/mounts out of the 95.


yeah what hesaid. Same scenario except mine is a '96. No problems at all.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 12:02 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Hartford
Anyone know if a 97 auto trans from a 4cyl will fit a 94 3 cyl?

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:45 pm 
Offline
Suzuki Elder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
it's a forum faux pas to post the very same thing in more than one section. i'm nicer about warning a new member than the mods are. :wink:

see my response in your first post.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group